935. - Jago Rackham

Speaker A: All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it 3 times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? Speaker B: We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

Speaker A: All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. Buongiorno, it's How Long Gone. Jason, I'm in Milan. It was a beautiful day today. I really got my steps in, as they say. What's up with you? Speaker B: Ciao, Chris. Ciao, Chris. How many steps did you take? In Italian, please, not in the traditional imperial measurement system. I need, uh, oh, I've, you know, kilometers or meters. Speaker A: I apologize, I can't, you know, I can't do that. Speaker B: I can change the setting in your health app, just let you know.

Speaker A: Oh shit, okay, I'll do that later. Yesterday I did touch 20, which is pretty extreme. I feel like I don't— I didn't feel great. Speaker B: 20,000 steps. Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't feel great. Speaker B: We've had— I feel like, I mean, it's not like a broken record, but the question of footwear does come to mind. I know you travel internationally, you walk a lot. Is this another day spent event with sockless penny loafers chewing up those cracker-ass heels of yours? Speaker B: 20,000 steps. Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't feel great.

Speaker B: We've had— I feel like, I mean, it's not like a broken record, but the question of footwear does come to mind. I know you travel internationally, you walk a lot. Is this another day spent event with sockless penny loafers chewing up those cracker-ass heels of yours? Speaker A: My heels look good, bro! Speaker B: No no no no no no no sorry for listeners at home Chris's heels are on fleek you know I get pedicures you know I get pedicures don't put me on blasty like that shea butter zao coconut oil on the face on the dick and on the heel everywhere I actually baby feet baby face baby dick you were saying something I can't I don't even know yeah I was wearing okay 20,000 steps because you had to look at all menswear because you're there for— Speaker A: No, this is not clothing related at all.

This is salone, baby. This is looking at furniture and gay guys. It's totally different. No clothes at all. Speaker B: Okay, this has nothing to do with Fashion Week, guys. This is gay guy stuff. Speaker A: Okay, Michael Scanlan described it as looking at corners that hot gay guys designed, and he's exactly right. I went to look at— Yes, corner. Yesterday I went to one of those beautiful apartments I've ever been in to celebrate Michael Bargo collaborating with Eve Solomon on some fucking This guy made fur, like mink tablecloths and rugs.

It's amazing. But that's what I'm dealing with here is what I'm saying. We're looking at mink tablecloths. Speaker B: So it's a bunch of unemployed people looking at interiors and then you have a dinner? Speaker A: No, no, that's the thing. No, it's a bunch of rich people that seem unemployed, but they're all gay and hot. That's the confusion. Speaker B: So it's a bunch of unemployed people looking at interiors and then you have a dinner? Speaker A: No, no, that's the thing. No, it's a bunch of rich people that seem unemployed, but they're all gay and hot.

That's the confusion. Speaker B: Oh no, no, I was talking about you. I was talking about you. Speaker A: Oh, oh no. I think most people are employed in the interiors industry, which is relatively booming. Me, yes. Yes. There are other people like me. As well. Yeah, yeah, there are other people. Speaker C: Right, right. Speaker B: No, you're— but I mean, you're, you're a part of the media, the, the glitterati. Speaker A: Yeah, right. Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Come on, Chris, you're a little glittery. I mean, you're not the most, but you're, you're shining.

Speaker A: No, but it was a, it was a fun— I mean, it's great. There's just too many people here. It's fucking crazy. It's like, you know how it's like anything else in these cities, something starts really going and then every brand wants to get involved, and then it's like, wait, there's— we don't have the infrastructure for this, really. You know how Italian— you know how Italian people are, they're stressed out. Speaker B: I mean, we're coming off the heels of Adam Scott Coachella. I know all about it. Small town not being able to handle the infrastructure and influx of hundreds of thousands of people descending down to look at these, uh, queer little corners and these mink coasters.

Speaker A: It's not— it doesn't— it like literally, it's, it's honestly kind of like— I mean, it's okay if you get around by bike, but it's the kind of thing where you look at something on a map and it's like 35 minutes by foot, 40 minutes by car, 10 minutes by bike. Like, that's literally the vibe, you know what I mean? Speaker B: So it's like, okay, so Manhattan, you must feel just right at home. Speaker A: Well, I'm fine because I'm able to Lime, but Alex, uh, cannot ride a bike.

Um, so it's— and, and it would be, uh, it would probably be— it probably wouldn't be the best idea no matter what. So I'm sort of like, if I'm with her, I gotta walk, I gotta hoof it, or I gotta fucking sit in an Uber and argue with some guy because he's clearly taking me the wrong way, you know what I mean? To get a little extra money out of me, out of this little tourist ass. Speaker B: So it's like, okay, so Manhattan, you must feel just right at home.

Speaker A: Well, I'm fine because I'm able to Lime, but Alex, uh, cannot ride a bike. Um, so it's— and, and it would be, uh, it would probably be— it probably wouldn't be the best idea no matter what. So I'm sort of like, if I'm with her, I gotta walk, I gotta hoof it, or I gotta fucking sit in an Uber and argue with some guy because he's clearly taking me the wrong way, you know what I mean? To get a little extra money out of me, out of this little tourist ass.

Speaker B: He loves when Salone comes. Yeah, all these little, these little twunks coming through. They don't know they're east from their west. Speaker C: Literally. Speaker A: So anyway, but yeah, it's been, it's been good, honestly. It's been— the weather's been so nice that it makes a big difference. Speaker B: All right. 2026, I'm going to hire your, your guys' celebrity hypnotist and we're going to hypnotize Alex into becoming an expert cyclist. Speaker A: I think she would. I think she would learn in the right setting, you know what I mean?

Speaker B: Get over her fear. What is the right setting? Speaker A: Not, not a major Hermes activation. No, not— I'm saying not a major metropolitan area where other people are. I think maybe like an empty parking lot on a Sunday, dirt road in the South, you know what I mean? Really? Like the way— yeah, the way that your dad taught you to drive a stick type shit. Speaker B: The way where you learned how to ride a Harley-Davidson. Right by my house in Glendale. Speaker A: Exactly. When I, when I, when I— what do they call it when you, when you lay her down?

Laid it down? Speaker B: No, I didn't. Speaker A: No, I didn't lay her down. I didn't lay her down. I wish I would have laid her down because it is fun to say. I wish I did. Speaker B: But I mean, it would be cool because also since you have such good like core strength and you're like hip glute activation is so dope, like even if you laid a Harley down, you could probably like pick it up. It's not even a big deal. Speaker B: But I mean, it would be cool because also since you have such good like core strength and you're like hip glute activation is so dope, like even if you laid a Harley down, you could probably like pick it up.

It's not even a big deal. Speaker A: Oh, and no, I wouldn't even notice. Yeah, it would be— I would, I would, it would keep on going. Besides the rug rash, I would just keep on going. No problem. That'll buff out. That'll buff out. Yeah. Speaker B: I was— I noticed a little bit on social media. I mean, we're coming off a couple of days off the 420 hangover, but I feel like, you know how we've been talking about like people don't care about holidays anymore. Like Easter comes and goes and people are like, what the fuck?

Like, I don't give a shit. The fake holidays that we create, like a 420 to celebrate something, people are even kind of all set on celebrating that, it seems, right? I didn't see anything. Speaker A: 420 was quiet. It was quiet this year. And I follow— I follow Wiz Khalifa. And it was still quiet. Speaker B: So it's, if you know, you follow the loudest account on social media, it's still quiet. Speaker A: I follow the pack. I follow the human pack and I still, yeah, it does feel quiet. It does feel quiet.

Speaker B: Speaking of the pack or the packet, there's a lot of memes and discoursing. Speaker A: Yes. Speaker B: Yes. Quote unquote, ain't nobody said none about 420 this year. Y'all must be on powder. Speaker A: Powder. Yeah. And I believe, well, I believe in this case powder's trending, right? Powder. Well, powder encompasses so many things. That's the thing. Weed is strictly, you know, weed to me, to me in the 420 sense means packing a bowl and smoking it, you know what I mean? Obviously edibles are included, except THC beverages,

, but we don't really— whereas powder, we're talking cocaine, meth, ketamine, I mean, crushed up pills. Speaker B: It's not a communal activity. We don't go to the park and all, you know, grab lunch and a 12-pack and pull out the fucking spoon unless we're on the, uh, the Drake Iceman, uh, Frozen exhibition. Speaker A: Iceman coming soon, Iceman coming soon. But yeah, that, that it's true, that, that is true. It's, it does, it does feel a little more— it feels less easy to celebrate together, I guess. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: Well, yeah, once you light that spoon up, you're not necessarily pulling out the frisbee with the gang. Speaker A: You ain't circling up the homies to pass the needle around after you fucking, after you load it up. Speaker B: I'm gonna smoke some fentanyl on a bus and then I taught my dog a new trick. Speaker C: I'm just— Speaker A: Yeah, there's no hula hooping over there when that's going down. That doesn't really work there. Speaker B: Yeah, you do one hula hoop and then you kind of stop.

It's just kind of like a— It's a hula hoop fent lean. And wow, that's That's actually my thesis at art school. Speaker A: You gotta take a break. Speaker B: I take photos of people on a fentanyl and I paint hula hoops on them. Speaker A: That's not a bad idea. Speaker B: Sort of like restructuring. Speaker A: That's not a bad idea. Give them something to do. Speaker B: Our mindset. Speaker A: What is it? What did you saw also that the UK has now banned anyone born— did you see this?

Like you can't basically, you can't buy cigarettes or vapes legally ever. Speaker B: They cut it off. Speaker A: If you were born after 2008 or something or 2009. Speaker B: Kind of crazy. Speaker A: It's very crazy. I mean, It's obviously not a big deal because I'm in Italy, wherever you can buy cigarettes as a baby. So it hasn't really— the news hasn't hit here super hard, but, but it is— that is a— that is an insane— that is an insane thing to do. Like, that is, that is actually an insane thing.

Speaker B: It's kind of— I mean, I think it's smart because there's truly no other way to do it than to do this, right? You have to— it reminds me of like, um, you know, like one of David Cho's NASA movies where like like, if you want us to like survive, we're gonna have to like cut off this like wing. Yeah, we're like, yeah, there's two people in there and they were like too crazy and they didn't do the oxygen thing, and now we gotta cut them off. Like, like, bye y'all.

Like, everyone— like, we're on the ship, we're all gonna die from lung cancer, and you can't. But there's no way— like, people love to vape and smoke so much, especially young people. Like, they're just gonna 3D print their own fucking shit, you know? Like, they're— Speaker A: if you're in the UK and you want to smoke a cigarette, you can go into your nan's cabinet and get a Winston, or you— or you— it's going to be old where you stand outside of the Tesco and hand— get somebody, you know, give somebody a 10, they spend 5 on a pack and give you, you know, they keep 5.

Speaker B: It used to be old school, are you my dad? And now it's going to be like, can you buy me a case of Turkish Gold? Speaker A: It's like when Tim— anybody goes to Japan, Tim makes them bring back a case of his cigarettes, the Paws cigarettes, um, which are beautiful, but he's really rich in those now because if you ask people like, sure, It's the same thing. It's the same thing if you stand outside the tobacco store. Speaker B: But I mean, once we prohibit vaping and cigarettes, it's just going to create 11,000 black markets and the cartels will win again.

Speaker A: I mean, that's what I look at this as a cartel play. I think they're somehow involved in this. Speaker B: But I mean, once we prohibit vaping and cigarettes, it's just going to create 11,000 black markets and the cartels will win again. Speaker A: I mean, that's what I look at this as a cartel play. I think they're somehow involved in this. Speaker B: Patrick Radden Keefe already has his outline written for this story that will happen in 7 years. Speaker A: Do you remember in 2026 when they banned cigarettes?

But it is, it is a crazy precedent to set. But I think you make a good point. It's like, well, you're either going to die or have to amputate your leg. Which one do you want to do? You know what I mean? So you gotta, you gotta take the leg off if you want to live. Speaker B: They, they, they know that there's no way to control it other than full abolition of it. And you gotta, it's, I mean, it's kind of smart because at a certain point, I guess you gotta make a decision or not.

Speaker A: Well, the question is, is it going to affect pint sales? You know what I mean? Because if you can't have a fag in a pint, what's the point? You know what I mean? What's the point of life? What's the point of this job? What's the whole thing? That's the— it could get darker. Speaker B: That's a nice little segue into our guest today who has put down the pint of Guinness and picked up the pint of Van Leeuwen. I think he mentioned, was it that or something else? But, you know, bringing the pints out means ice cream now more so than the Boddingtons with the lads.

But yeah, we have a guest today. He's a friend of mine from Instagram that we started chatting a few years ago and we've never really met or spoken, but he has a book, To Entertain: Instructions for a Dinner Party. And it's so far, it's a great book. It's the kind of book that I would write if I were to write a cookbook. It's a lot of his personality and cool little stories and philosophies on how to live life. Speaker A: His personality is actually what turned me off. I was just there for the recipes.

It was all the stories that kind of got me. Speaker B: You love his simple storytelling with his recipes, right? Speaker A: I've had Jacko's food actually, and I love it. It's delicious. He cooked at Izzy's house one night. I've actually sampled the food. It was delicious. And it seemed— he seemed a little messy, but we'll talk about his sort of his, uh, that makes it hotter station. Speaker B: Yeah, he, I— he's the type of chef where you want him to have like a large heavy towel, not a small kitchen towel, and it's sort of wet with the, the fats of geese and pheasant and liver and lamb.

You know what I mean? Speaker A: He's killing birds we ain't heard of yet. All right, let's, uh, let's give him a call. Let's give him a call. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine, you know, drink more water. Speaker B: He knows how to charge my copay. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker B: That's about it. Speaker A: As if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I don't get data.

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Speaker C: Ooh. Speaker A: So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. Superpower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there. Speaker C: Ooh. Speaker A: So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. Superpower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there. Speaker B: Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with Superpower. For a limited time, HowLongOn listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence.

Head over to com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about Superpower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them HowLongOn sent you, and that'll just support us. Thanks. Speaker A: This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world.

And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. Speaker B: A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast 3 times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Speaker A: 3 times a week. And I, I have a feeling, just based on the platform and these talking points, that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. Speaker B: The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother.

Speaker A: Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's 3 times a week. And who couldn't use more news, especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month. And this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone.

Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference. Speaker B: I agree, Chris. And sometimes, you know, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them, because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself.

And that's the most— that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp, Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it and, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, damn, I really am him. You don't have to be on this journey alone.

Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp. com/howlong. That is better. com/howlong. Speaker C: What happened to your nose? Speaker B: No, it's a little, it's a little nose strip that I use. I have like a deviated septum. So, you know, when I'm working out— Speaker A: He's got a deviated septum. This is the, this is the shit chicks say to get a nose job on the low. And Jason, I think Jason's gonna come back one day and the schnoz is going to be just a little bit smaller.

Speaker B: I'm one of the more nasally people on planet Earth right now. I need this more than most people. This is, this is me sort of— Speaker C: this is you de-nasaled. Speaker B: I have to— I mean, there's like, I do need to get the surgery, but I've had like sinus and nasal issues my whole entire life. But it basically helps me breathe as if, as if a normal person would, would be breathing instead of somebody who's handicapped like me. Speaker B: I'm one of the more nasally people on planet Earth right now.

I need this more than most people. This is, this is me sort of— Speaker C: this is you de-nasaled. Speaker B: I have to— I mean, there's like, I do need to get the surgery, but I've had like sinus and nasal issues my whole entire life. But it basically helps me breathe as if, as if a normal person would, would be breathing instead of somebody who's handicapped like me. Speaker C: I'm sorry that you're like that. Speaker B: Did you say I'm sorry that you're like that? Speaker C: I got to be honest with you.

Speaker A: You look like you might snore. Speaker C: I snore fucking so much. It's my— Luana, my partner, wears earplugs. No, I'm terrible. I'm like a pig. Speaker A: You're saying so she's strapped up with special earplugs wherever you go because she knows that Daddy's going to be sawing logs. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: And are you oinking a little bit too with the snore? Is it a pig-like snore? Speaker C: I don't know. It's more like maybe like how you would imagine, like a wild boar. I don't know because I don't hear it.

She did once record it for me and that was horrible. Speaker A: Sure. Speaker B: You're snoring like a stuck boar. Speaker A: You have to do— Speaker C: you should— Speaker A: because, you know, alcoholics classically, someone in your life will film you at your worst and show you the video later. Speaker C: That's happened. Speaker A: So I think it's time to do that with snoring. Speaker B: He's like, I have a folder on my phone actually of those. Speaker A: I think it's time to do that with snoring for you.

Just to know what you're working with. You know what I mean? How bad is it? Do I need— Speaker B: Snortervention. Speaker A: Do I need a CPAP machine? You know what I mean? Like, how bad is it? Speaker C: It's bad. I mean, I've done it. I just— I'm just choosing not to remember because I think it would be too— harrowing for me to dwell on. I wouldn't be able to go to sleep. Speaker B: He's like, I have a folder on my phone actually of those. Speaker A: I think it's time to do that with snoring for you.

Just to know what you're working with. You know what I mean? How bad is it? Do I need— Speaker B: Snortervention. Speaker A: Do I need a CPAP machine? You know what I mean? Like, how bad is it? Speaker C: It's bad. I mean, I've done it. I just— I'm just choosing not to remember because I think it would be too— harrowing for me to dwell on. I wouldn't be able to go to sleep. Speaker B: Yeah, that's why I disassociate too. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: Do you have acid reflux?

I know that you are— you don't drink anymore, right? Speaker C: No. Speaker B: But you still eat a lot of pheasant, so you must have some, you know, the acidity. Speaker C: Yeah, I have. How do you— this is, this is true. I have acid reflux as well. I've got a little thing of Rennies, which are like, I guess, like Tums. I don't know what you have over there. Speaker A: Okay, sure. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker C: The little chalky tablets next to the bed. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: Mm-hmm.

Hey, nothing wrong with that. It affects— Speaker A: I like that. That's your, that's your Blue Chew. You got the Rennies next to the— All right. What are, what are the Rennies? Are they pink? The way— Are they multicolored the way Tums can be? Are they just— Speaker C: No. Speaker B: The blues are 5. Speaker C: The pinks are 2. We, we are, uh, we're a less joyous place. So they're like one color. If they're mint, they're white. But I actually have orange ones because it's like having a little orange candy and then like having a Fanta.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's nice. You guys love Fanta. George was telling us that Fanta in the UK is just different. And I don't really understand what he means by that. Speaker C: Well, it's worse now. Speaker B: Like a Mexican Coke. Speaker C: It used to. I mean, because we have a sugar tax here. So all our fizzy drinks, fizzy drinks, soda pops, whatever you call them. Speaker C: Well, it's worse now. Speaker B: Like a Mexican Coke. Speaker C: It used to. I mean, because we have a sugar tax here.

So all our fizzy drinks, fizzy drinks, soda pops, whatever you call them. Speaker A: Okay, relax, bro. It's not the 1950s. We call them Coca-Cola like men. Is what we call them. Speaker C: No matter what, no matter what the drink is, what it is, no matter what it is. Speaker A: Yeah, it's, yeah, it's just, it's just Coca-Cola. It could be Pepsi, it could be Mountain Dew, it could be Dr Pepper, it's Coke. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker C: Okay, your Coca-Colas have more sugar in them. In, in our country, they banned putting sugar in drinks, and so everyone took them out, and it, and they're all like, they taste weird, apart from an original Coke, which has the original recipe, but it's more expensive than any of the others.

Speaker A: Oh really? So that, so that the good shit costs more? It's a tax, there's a sugar tax. Speaker B: We're willing to But I mean, it's better to have sugar than— I mean, we need a high fructose corn syrup tax more than we need a sugar tax. But that's a whole other podcast. Speaker C: That's a geopolitical one right there. And this is light. Speaker A: I get super geopolitical with it. You know that. Speaker B: As it pertains to my foodways. Speaker A: Yeah, my Southern foodways. I got to make sure they're clear.

Speaker C: I've heard you described by two different people as a Southern gentleman. Speaker A: Wow, that's nice, actually. Speaker C: Two different English people. Speaker A: Oh, they're English. That's why. Speaker C: Don't— well, are you not a Southern gentleman? Speaker A: Look, I would love to think that, and so would my mother, but I think other people would maybe use some different descriptors for me. Speaker B: No, you're— you would, especially by 2026 terms and standards, you are definitely a Southern gentleman. You will hold a door open for a guy no matter how hot he is.

It doesn't matter. Speaker C: Don't— well, are you not a Southern gentleman? Speaker A: Look, I would love to think that, and so would my mother, but I think other people would maybe use some different descriptors for me. Speaker B: No, you're— you would, especially by 2026 terms and standards, you are definitely a Southern gentleman. You will hold a door open for a guy no matter how hot he is. It doesn't matter. Speaker A: That's right. Speaker C: I don't care. Speaker A: Look, I'm an equal opportunity door holder, and I do dole out the yes sir and yes ma'am to the point where people have are like kind of weirded out by it.

It's hard to— when it's baked, it's just like hard to shake that. You know what I mean? It's like a whole life. Speaker C: Do you call your father your daddy? Speaker A: No, no, I only call my boyfriend that. No, no, my dad— Speaker B: He calls him pa. No, I don't call him pa. Speaker A: Pa. No, I call him dad. Straight up mom and dad. Speaker C: I don't— Speaker A: I mean, don't get me wrong. In my family, there's some wild shit. There's a meemaw and a peepaw and all that shit.

But like, We don't in the Black household. We keep it pretty down the middle. Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine what you call him. Daddy or father. Which one is it? Yeah. Speaker A: What do you call your dad? Speaker C: I call my father my father. Well, yeah, I don't know. I always refer to him in like the third person. I don't know. I don't think I've called him dad for like a long, long time. Speaker B: But do you say, do you say my father or do you just say father?

Speaker C: I guess I kind of just like start talking to him. I don't know. Speaker B: I guess like father's meant to ring round 7, something like that. Speaker C: I look like— Speaker A: we have a— we have actually— we have a great relationship. I just talk to him. It's no big deal, actually. I don't have to address him. Speaker C: I guess I kind of just like start talking to him. I don't know. Speaker B: I guess like father's meant to ring round 7, something like that. Speaker C: I look like— Speaker A: we have a— we have actually— we have a great relationship.

I just talk to him. It's no big deal, actually. I don't have to address him. Speaker B: I know. I don't even have a father, so, you know, it's all good, guys. It's all good. I'm just, you know, sorry. I'm feeling out in the dark, you know. I'm exploring the world. Speaker C: A deviated septum, no dad. Speaker A: Don't feel bad for him. If he was 5'8" and had a loving dad, he'd be worse off. So he's— Speaker B: no dad, deviated septum, big dick. Big bank account. No ex.

Speaker A: He's even got a Mercedes-Benz. He's even got a Mercedes-Benz. I don't want to call that. Speaker B: Yeah, I got a Benz and a Porsche in the parking lot. Deviated septum. Hair on fleek. Nails on fleek. Speaker C: It looks like you're checking notes about how many cars you have on the video. You keep looking. Speaker A: He does. He keeps, he keeps his affirmation, his affirmation journal in front of him while he podcasts. Speaker C: Oh God. Speaker B: I washed my beautiful car today. Speaker A: Yeah, that's okay.

So you, what do you call your mom? Mom or mother? Speaker C: I call my mother my mommy. To her, when I address her, I call her mommy. I just like, I don't know, it's like an English posh thing, I guess. Speaker A: It is an English, no, for sure. Speaker C: And then when I refer to her in the third person, I call her my mother. Speaker A: Yeah, I think British mother, father feels very appropriate, whereas for some other people it doesn't feel quite as appropriate. Speaker C: It's weird.

I mean, I try not to refer to her as much as possible. Speaker A: It is an English, no, for sure. Speaker C: And then when I refer to her in the third person, I call her my mother. Speaker A: Yeah, I think British mother, father feels very appropriate, whereas for some other people it doesn't feel quite as appropriate. Speaker C: It's weird. I mean, I try not to refer to her as much as possible. Speaker A: I mean, sure. Do they, do they think, do they think you're a freak or are they on board with this whole thing?

Speaker C: I think they're pretty proud of me, actually. It's nice. They're very supportive. I'm doing okay. Yeah, I got a book. Speaker A: I think they should be. Speaker C: I just didn't know. Speaker A: Do you think I'm a freak? I love— look, I love you. I'm saying that sometimes parents have a vision for their child and when they don't, they don't do what they expected. No matter how successful they are, it's a little bit of a, oh, that's nice. Speaker C: I could have become a lawyer, I guess.

And yeah, maybe they'd be happier with that. Speaker B: They would, they would like it maybe more if your book did not have the word cook in front of it. Speaker C: That's funny. It was just, yeah, it's like a, like a proper novel. Speaker B: Yeah. A novel for the ages. Speaker C: I don't think, I think I care about that. I think I'm self-conscious that my book has the word cook in front of it. Speaker A: Well, the thing with that is though, everyone tells me the only books that sell are fucking cookbooks.

So it sounds like you're, you're the next Alison Roman. Get your shit together. Speaker C: Inshallah. Speaker B: I wouldn't call this a cookbook though. I wouldn't call this a cookbook. I would say it is Diago's Guide to Life with some lamb recipes. Speaker A: But I'm saying to you that classifying it as a cookbook is a recipe for success, no pun intended, chart and sales-wise. That's what I'm saying. Speaker A: But I'm saying to you that classifying it as a cookbook is a recipe for success, no pun intended, chart and sales-wise.

That's what I'm saying. Speaker B: New name for our food podcast, Chris. Speaker A: I'm saying that the only people I know that have made money that aren't famous writers— Speaker C: No, no, it's completely true. Speaker A: —are cookbook authors, like off of published books is what I'm saying. Speaker C: It's very true. And I think I was listening, I was thinking about, you know, there's this thing where they talk about your president and how in the '80s he was always upset that like New York high society didn't take him seriously.

I feel like that at the moment. I'm like, I keep like being in Vogue and like the ladies' papers and stuff. And I'm like, I want to be in the proper grown-up newspaper. Like I want more book reviews. All right. Speaker A: So you're saying Vogue is the ladies' newspaper and World of Interiors is the gay newspaper. So you're trying to finally get— Speaker B: you, you have to crawl before you can walk. We're going to need a few El Italia stories about your butter sculptures before we get into how you, you know, are a true genius of our time.

Speaker A: You know, what are you, what are you looking for? Let's, let's just talk. Why, if you could look in the camera and talk directly at your publicist, what would you say to them right now? Speaker C: Well, what do I want? Yeah. What do you want? Speaker A: New York Times, Financial Times, the what, the Telegraph? What are we talking about? Speaker B: What's on your mood board? Speaker C: What's in my mood board? Speaker B: Have you read The Secret? Speaker C: No, tell me about it. Speaker B: It's just where you visualize your success.

So, you know. Oh, oh, yeah, right. Tape a copy of the Financial Times, you know, to your ceiling every morning and you'll get rich kind of thing. Speaker B: What's on your mood board? Speaker C: What's in my mood board? Speaker B: Have you read The Secret? Speaker C: No, tell me about it. Speaker B: It's just where you visualize your success. So, you know. Oh, oh, yeah, right. Tape a copy of the Financial Times, you know, to your ceiling every morning and you'll get rich kind of thing. Speaker C: I think, I think it's also a thing about being English is that when you asked me to say what I wanted, I panicked and I couldn't think of anything because we do, we don't do that.

I remember the first time I was like with Americans. Who were like trying to do stuff in the creative industry, whatever, and they were like, I'm doing this, like, I've got this company, and it would be just like an Instagram page with 100 followers. But people like, what do you do? I'm like, oh, you know, I guess I'd like write or something because we're modest. Speaker B: Yeah, low expectations, high delivery. I just write, you know, it's, I don't know, it's like something like New York Times bestseller list or whatever.

I don't know, I don't keep up with that stuff. Speaker C: I was best-selling in etiquette books on Amazon for one brief moment. Speaker B: Etiquette books on Amazon. UK or? Yeah, etiquette books. I mean, it does have etiquette. Speaker C: I don't have a publisher, so yeah, UK. Speaker B: Wait, your voice just changed now. Whoa. Now you sound normal. Okay. Oh, better? Yeah. Is that good? Yeah, this is 10 times better. Oh, okay. Speaker C: Well, let's keep it like that then. I think they were dying. That's why it was weird.

I did plug them in before. I was trying to be a professional. Speaker A: This happens sometimes when you were trying, when the camera battery is getting low, the flash ain't firing right. It's a problem. Speaker C: Well, let's keep it like that then. I think they were dying. That's why it was weird. I did plug them in before. I was trying to be a professional. Speaker A: This happens sometimes when you were trying, when the camera battery is getting low, the flash ain't firing right. It's a problem. Speaker B: We don't want you to do your best.

We want you to do our best. OK, so next time you come on, you know, figure it out. Speaker C: You're sweet. Speaker A: Why do you think, why do you think, why do you think British people can't celebrate their success? Because this is, I mean, this is a real thing. And you're having a nice moment right now and you're not able to, you're not able to pat yourself on the, on the back and, and celebrate a little. Generational trauma, Margaret Thatcher. Speaker B: What do we got? Speaker C: Yeah, I think we're like kind of like sort of perversely obsessed with failure and terrified of it.

And so if you stop celebrating your success, you get worried that like it's not gonna last and then everyone's gonna laugh at you. Maybe I'm scared that like my pants are gonna fall down. Speaker A: Of course, you don't, you don't want to tempt fate. Speaker B: If you find the rare moment of success, you don't want to jinx it and have karma nip you in the butt. Speaker C: I was in a meeting with a new potential agent today and I was having to do like a proper hard sell and I'm like, oh, I did this, I did this.

And afterwards I felt like retching. It was like, it was disgusting, like boasting that much. Speaker A: I mean, I don't know if it's boasting if you were asked to tell the person who's going to try to make you money, but I see where your head's at. In that case, I think you're wrong, but I know what you mean. Speaker C: Yeah, you were, you had to do your agent's job. Speaker A: I mean, I don't know if it's boasting if you were asked to tell the person who's going to try to make you money, but I see where your head's at.

In that case, I think you're wrong, but I know what you mean. Speaker C: Yeah, you were, you had to do your agent's job. Speaker B: Job, but you only have to do it the one time. You have to convince them, and they can do it for you on your behalf for years to come, hopefully. Exactly. Speaker C: And I'm so excited about that. Like, the thing that I'm most excited about is having someone to be able to do the fucking, like, being a mercenary and like being like, you need to give me money to make you a fucking cake.

Speaker B: Yes, the having a third party for, you know, not even negotiations, but just for those little, you Hey, just, I need the money to buy the food to cook for your wedding. You don't want to do that. Speaker A: So you could focus on running super low on flour. If you could kind of bank transfer me, my radish knife is in the shop. Speaker C: So I have to go beg the miller to like kind of give me some extra flour. It'd be nice if I have someone else do that for me.

Speaker B: You got a couple kilos on loan. Are you having a night Red Bull? Diet. To be clear, it's a diet Red Bull, sugar-free. Speaker A: It's not diet caffeine. Speaker B: Yeah, it'd be cool if you learned that the thing that keeps you energized from Red Bull is not the sugar, but in fact the caffeine and taurine. But you're a night owl because having read your book, Chris and I live in America, we're in our 40s. I live in LA where people eat supper at at 4:45 PM and are in their pajamas and their red light mask before the sun goes down.

And you're saying, you know, if it's on a Sunday, they'll probably leave around midnight. So you want to make sure the dinner doesn't go down, you know, anytime after 9:30 or something like that. So is London and the UK still living on that late time frame, or are you just that young of a person to where you're still having these marathon meals and staying out all night? Speaker B: Yeah, it'd be cool if you learned that the thing that keeps you energized from Red Bull is not the sugar, but in fact the caffeine and taurine.

But you're a night owl because having read your book, Chris and I live in America, we're in our 40s. I live in LA where people eat supper at at 4:45 PM and are in their pajamas and their red light mask before the sun goes down. And you're saying, you know, if it's on a Sunday, they'll probably leave around midnight. So you want to make sure the dinner doesn't go down, you know, anytime after 9:30 or something like that. So is London and the UK still living on that late time frame, or are you just that young of a person to where you're still having these marathon meals and staying out all night?

Speaker C: I was younger when I was beginning to write it, and now I'm like going to bed at 9 because I'm really busy and like, I just like, I have my salad dinner. Like, it's like, you know, it's like you have the persona that you have on the internet where you're like, oh, I fucking cook pigs and like, as you said, like pheasants and birds that we haven't even discovered. Which I do sometimes, obviously, but most of the time I'm eating like fucking brown rice and steamed vegetables and grilled— Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think this is an evolution that comes to all of our chefs, you know, 20, 30 years of Bourdain living, you know, by the end of his life, he was, you know, he's in his 50s, he put the knife down, he's, you know, he's making pasghetti with butter for his kid.

And, but you, you've already done all of that. And I think young people nowadays have already lived all of their adult life. They pre-age. Yeah, you're settling into, you know, the second and third act of your life at 28. Do you think it's sad? Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think this is an evolution that comes to all of our chefs, you know, 20, 30 years of Bourdain living, you know, by the end of his life, he was, you know, he's in his 50s, he put the knife down, he's, you know, he's making pasghetti with butter for his kid.

And, but you, you've already done all of that. And I think young people nowadays have already lived all of their adult life. They pre-age. Yeah, you're settling into, you know, the second and third act of your life at 28. Do you think it's sad? Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's sad, but you're sober, so there's nothing left for you anyway. So it's fine. Speaker C: Well, that's what I thought. Like before I got sober and I didn't, I didn't, I didn't. Chris, you're also sober, aren't you? Yeah, yeah. Speaker A: Almost 10 years.

It's a little secret. Yeah, it's a big, it's a big secret. Yeah, my life is— Speaker B: It only comes up every half an hour on this show. Speaker A: Yeah, it's gotten considerably more boring. Um, but I'm saying like once— yeah, like what are you gonna do after 9 o'clock? You know what I'm saying? Speaker C: Well, this is what I feel. I mean, like watch more TV. I don't even own a TV. It's like really— Speaker B: so you're gonna chug a bunch of Red Bull and read a book?

Speaker C: I have to go to a play tonight. I'm sorry to hear that. I know, but you know, I, I— it will be great. But the Red Bull— I'm just tired at the moment. Speaker A: I'm sick and I'm having to do too much But okay, so when you're saying you're having to do too much work, let's walk us through a day in the life, King, because I, I just— because I don't, I don't— well, I mean, I know you guys go to the farmer's market or whatever, but what the fuck else do you do?

Speaker B: Well, he's on a media tour right now, so it's exhausting. They pay you for the press, not for the book, you know. I don't— Speaker A: I'm sick and I'm having to do too much But okay, so when you're saying you're having to do too much work, let's walk us through a day in the life, King, because I, I just— because I don't, I don't— well, I mean, I know you guys go to the farmer's market or whatever, but what the fuck else do you do? Speaker B: Well, he's on a media tour right now, so it's exhausting.

They pay you for the press, not for the book, you know. I don't— Speaker A: I think he's— I think it's a combo of both, and I want to see what it's looking like because I just, I feel like you're gonna have a freaky little schedule for us. Speaker C: So, okay, let's Let's do yesterday. Great. Then, but then when I say it, it's like, doesn't actually even sound like very much. And I'm like, oh, I'm really lazy, bro. Speaker A: I was complaining about, I'm in Milan and I'm tired from walking around today looking at— Speaker B: Chris is exhausted from checking out bathrooms.

You, you're like, yeah, trying to finish an essay about octopus. Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Which I don't eat because it's too clever. Speaker B: And I'm trying to, I'm trying to edit out the racist jokes on this show. We all have jobs to do, guys. We all— Speaker A: everybody's got a cross to bear. There. All right, so you're saying— all right, look, yesterday in the— in your life, what are we looking at? Speaker C: Yesterday I did a podcast in the morning. I answered some emails. Speaker B: Damn, this is— you, you're living my exact life.

Speaker C: Yeah, I made a chicken soup with, um, a really nut— with like, um, a peanut kind of base. It was delicious, actually. Speaker B: Hold on, you put peanut base? Peanut base? Speaker A: What the hell are you talking about? Speaker C: I just put some peanut in there as well as the fucking— that— what's the Thai spice where it's like massaman? Hold on. Speaker B: You put it— is it peanut butter or do you just throw loose peanuts into chicken broth? Speaker B: Hold on, you put peanut base?

Peanut base? Speaker A: What the hell are you talking about? Speaker C: I just put some peanut in there as well as the fucking— that— what's the Thai spice where it's like massaman? Hold on. Speaker B: You put it— is it peanut butter or do you just throw loose peanuts into chicken broth? Speaker A: What do you think? I honestly don't know. Speaker B: Do you crush them up at this point with you, honey? Speaker C: I don't know. Yeah. Peanut butter. I use like the smooth peanut butter. I used to know.

Speaker A: I was hoping you took off one of your Demi Loomis boots and fucking smashed the peanuts on the fucking— Speaker C: you know, sprinkled them in a little bit. Speaker B: I dig them from the ground. You— okay, you were thinking like a, like a Thai satay, Southeast Asian kind of thing going on. You weren't just like blackout and just like, maybe I put peanut butter in the soup. Speaker C: I'm not like a fucking insane person. You know, like it's a Massaman curry. It's like a kind of— it was like a bastardized version of the Massaman curry, like a peanut soup.

I made that. I had— there was something stressful, but it's not in my diary, so I can't remember what it was. Then I had to cycle across London to Clapham, which took a while. Not Clapham. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, because it got famous recently for having all those— it's funny because it's like one of the fanciest parts of London, but apparently overrun with gangs. If you can't clap 'em, join 'em, as they say. That's what I always say. Speaker B: Okay, you rode the bike to— was it your own bicycle, vintage and rustic, or was it an electric Lime?

The latter. Speaker B: Okay, you rode the bike to— was it your own bicycle, vintage and rustic, or was it an electric Lime? The latter. Speaker C: I'm a man of my times. People think I'm like some kind of fucking— people always like, oh, you're dressing— I always wear a fucking t-shirt. Speaker A: Everyone is mean and like, no, bro, you're giving a guy— you're giving a guy who cooks by candlelight and you know it. Don't even say that. You create a visual aesthetic. I know you guys have electricity because you're podcasting right now, but otherwise I wouldn't be sure.

Speaker C: I had to actually borrow a generator. All right. Speaker A: So you biked all the way to Clapham. What was in Clapham? Speaker C: I had to take a phone call, but it was just before I was meeting a chef at a place where a really great restaurant called Crispin. I was at a museum called Studio Voltaire. Next week I'm cooking a big dinner for my book there. I was doing a site visit. I had to have a phone call with my friend Zoe in New York. First of all, had the site visit.

Then I went to the library. I met my friend Isa. Work. Then I had to cycle. I went to a birthday party for this restaurant, Clipstone, and then I went home. It's like— but when I tell you that, it sounds like a— Speaker A: no, that's a long day. No, that's a day. Speaker C: It sounds like someone's day off. Speaker A: No, that's a long day. Speaker B: It sounds like a beautiful summer day of a student, you know. Rode my bike to the park, hung out with Lucy. We had— Speaker A: I talked to Zoe for a while on the phone.

Speaker B: She's doing okay. Yeah, bro, your life is a Bill and Sebastian song. Deadass. Deadass. Deadass. Speaker C: Bill and Sebastian. Was Zoe— Speaker A: I talked to Zoe for a while on the phone. Speaker B: She's doing okay. Yeah, bro, your life is a Bill and Sebastian song. Deadass. Deadass. Deadass. Speaker C: Bill and Sebastian. Was Zoe— Speaker A: was Zoe going through it, or did you just need to catch up with her? Were you providing counsel? Speaker C: It was about a, uh, a shoot we're doing for an important French fashion magazine.

It wasn't— I wasn't just chatting. Speaker A: So, all right, so when Zoe calls you for the important French magazine shoot, you're bringing to the table some food? Speaker B: Yeah, in this case I bring food to the table. I bring— Speaker A: I just wanted to make sure there wasn't— Speaker B: what do you do for a living? I bring bring food to the table. Speaker C: No, I will. I'm not actually— no, for this one I'm being profiled by the magazine, so I'm being photographed. I will do some— that's, that's— Speaker A: it's, it's about me, as it should be, as it should be.

So, all right, so, okay, that's— no, that's a pretty full day. I mean, that doesn't— to be fair, I mean, you're not working in the mines, but that doesn't necessarily sound any different than Jason and I's days, you know, depending on what we're looking at. Speaker C: It's what success looks like now. Like, basically it's like going and like meeting someone and having lunch somewhere and then going somewhere else and having and coffee or juice. Speaker A: And this is what happens though, like I'm in Milan and I'm feeling unmoored if I— because I, you know, if you're out all day, I start to feel crazy because I haven't had laptop time.

I feel like I need 2 hours in front of the computer to feel grounded, just to feel like I know what's going on. Yeah, I've already got my 2 front teeth are sticking out. I've been sucking my thumb so much. Speaker B: He needs his Twitter Baba or else he gets— Speaker A: not even that. That I can— the social media stuff, I'm happy to do on my phone. I literally feel like I can look at an email on my phone phone and it doesn't register in the same way as it does on my computer.

Speaker B: He needs his Twitter Baba or else he gets— Speaker A: not even that. That I can— the social media stuff, I'm happy to do on my phone. I literally feel like I can look at an email on my phone phone and it doesn't register in the same way as it does on my computer. Speaker C: I can't do email on my phone. Yeah. Speaker B: I mean, I do obviously in a pinch, but like on a, if I'm really, it's, it's, it's undignified to type an email with your, you know, with your little thumbs and yeah, with your thumbs.

Wouldn't it be better if the, if the English government decided if you're born after 2009, you have to email on the medium screen. You can't be the small screen or the big screen. Speaker A: What do you think? That's a nice idea. Speaker C: I think that's a great idea. I also don't know what the big screen is. Speaker B: There's your television, your computer, and your phone. Speaker C: And people email on that TV. Speaker B: No, not really. But it was more of a reference to people will say, like, I leave my job on the medium screen.

I can't wait to leave my medium screen and go to my big screen at home. Speaker C: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I thought it was the thing I'd missed. Speaker A: You don't have have a TV though because you're such an anarchist, or because you don't watch Love Island? Speaker C: No, I really— actually, you know, my, my cousin was on Love Island. Speaker A: Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at The Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the Nexgrill 4-burner gas grill on special buy for only $199, and entertain all season with the Hampton Bay Westgrove 7-piece outdoor dining set for only $499.

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Speaker C: On Love Island Australia, and she had the first ever same-sex kiss on Love Island. We were very proud of it. Speaker B: Okay, throw that on the wiki. Speaker A: So you're saying your cousin's a lesbian and she got tongue down on TV in Australia? Speaker C: I think she at that point was saying that she was bisexual. Speaker B: You don't have to be a lesbian to kiss somebody on Love Island, Chris. Speaker A: I've never watched that program, shockingly. But that's big. I know that was big for your family.

They got you and they got her. That's, I mean, we're taking over. Speaker C: It's a, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a whole thing. Speaker B: We're like, um, Rackham's in charge now, bitch. Speaker C: That's what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. No, no. Speaker A: What did she go on? What did she do after with her post-Love Island success? What did she turn that into? Speaker C: To? She, um, finished her master's. Speaker B: She, you know, she, she is a businesswoman. Speaker C: Sure, sure. Speaker A: Do you mind, do you mind explaining which business that is?

Speaker B: Andrew Tate kind of way. Speaker C: Got it. She's making money. She was in the entertainment in business. Speaker C: To? She, um, finished her master's. Speaker B: She, you know, she, she is a businesswoman. Speaker C: Sure, sure. Speaker A: Do you mind, do you mind explaining which business that is? Speaker B: Andrew Tate kind of way. Speaker C: Got it. She's making money. She was in the entertainment in business. Speaker A: The entertainment business. I understand. Down Australia too. I feel like you can get away with a lot down there.

I feel like it's a fun place to be an expat. Speaker B: As long as you're white, pretty smooth sailing down there. Speaker A: Yeah, you're good to go. And I know she's white. Speaker C: It is, it is, it is. Speaker A: She's half Chinese Japanese, but, uh, oh shit, damn you. All right, you all right? I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize. I apologize. I apologize for your cousin's race. Speaker B: Yeah, you should be sorry. You should be sorry. Speaker C: I get to play that card. Speaker B: Yeah, payback.

Speaker A: It's going to be a bit. I'm sorry. That was an English joke. That was an English joke because you guys are so white. You know what I mean? Speaker C: We are very white. Physically. We are. We are. Like, look at me. You can't— the only reason you know that it's not my t-shirt, my skin is because it's got but it's not good. It's like tan, it's pink, it's like a pig, like a pig wearing a shirt. Yeah. Speaker A: Now what happens if you guys go on holiday?

What if you go to Spain with the family? You coming back tomato mode, or do you, do you get a nice dark, I wear Factor 50, I sit in the shade. Speaker C: No, I love being out, but I, I burn if I'm not very careful. Look, what about you, Chris, in the South? Are you— look at your— are you tanned? Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I don't, I I, I, bro, I tan like a chick, chick in the '80s in a bed that she paid for in a fucking strip mall.

No, I mean, I'm not— it's not that. I don't burn really unless I'm like sitting on the equator. Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I don't, I I, I, bro, I tan like a chick, chick in the '80s in a bed that she paid for in a fucking strip mall. No, I mean, I'm not— it's not that. I don't burn really unless I'm like sitting on the equator. Speaker B: For a cracker-ass cracker, he does tan well, I will say. Speaker A: Yeah, I don't get— I don't get super red. Speaker C: Okay, I'm sorry, Chris, I don't know.

I don't know your, um, your source. I'm sorry. Speaker A: No, hey, look, it's totally fine, and I, I won't— if we clear— look, I'll call it even because I said the thing about your cousin, you said the thing about me. I think we're— I think we're zeroed out now. You know what it's I can't remember that there's two of you. Speaker C: So whoever's made the noise last is the one I like kind of end up like nervously insulting. That's great. Speaker B: You'll get used to it after a while.

Speaker C: Don't worry. I'm like, oh, I'm with, I'm with the big boys. I need to like make the jokes. Speaker A: So you've done some other, you've done some other low-level podcasts, I assume. Are those more in the food space or are you doing these this morning? Speaker B: Yeah. Which pod did you do? Speaker A: You doing, you doing Desert Island Discs? Speaker C: And nothing compared to you. Speaker A: You'd be a great— you'd be great on Desert Island Discs. That's a good— BBC, I know you're listening.

Yeah, come on, BBC. Speaker C: You have to be like kind of like either a titan of industry, which in the UK means like you own the biggest, like, I know, denture factory, or, or you, or you, um, I know you wrote a book in the '80s. I'm not old enough. Speaker A: Or like, I do feel like, I do feel like when I look at that on my podcast app I would say, and I, I feel like I'm pretty tapped in, I maybe 1 in 4 is someone I know.

No, you know, maybe one, maybe. Speaker A: Or like, I do feel like, I do feel like when I look at that on my podcast app I would say, and I, I feel like I'm pretty tapped in, I maybe 1 in 4 is someone I know. No, you know, maybe one, maybe. Speaker C: I don't understand the, the choices that they make. It's weird. You really, you do, you get like, they will put like a senior civil servant on. It will be like, this person was in charge of like, um, checking like weights and measures for the last 50 years.

Speaker A: Me, definitely maybe. I'm, I'm taking that with me. Speaker B: No, well, if they're only booking old people, maybe they're just afraid of having to list, you know, having to publish someone's like 'Biba Dubi' as number 3 on their, on their, you know, like we wanted to— This is what I'm thinking about. Speaker C: Yeah, like what if someone— do you guys, did you guys hear of the Crazy Frog, which was like a thing that we had here? Speaker B: Like the song, the Crazy Frog? Speaker A: Yeah.

I, no, I don't know what that is. Speaker C: You should look it up afterwards, but that was, that was British culture when I was a teenager. It was important. And so like maybe people will be choosing that. That. Speaker A: I think the idea is that because that concept could work for anyone, they make it work for anyone, you know what I mean? Like, it's really— it really is so simple. You could— Speaker C: then it's like adding to someone's grandmother. Yeah, everybody's got an opinion, and they'd be like, I love Michael Bublé and that one song from the Tchaikovsky opera, like Dance of the Black Knight.

Speaker B: Crazy Frog in F minor. Speaker A: I need to look up Crazy Frog because you guys got so much funny little funky shit over there. Speaker B: Crazy Frog in F minor. Speaker A: I need to look up Crazy Frog because you guys got so much funny little funky shit over there. Speaker B: Chris, you know Crazy Frog. You know the, um, the Beverly Hills Cop song where It's like, doo doo doo doo doo doo. Speaker A: Oh, that's Crazy Frog? Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Speaker B: It's just a cover of that song, but it's a CGI animated kind of frog character from, I'm looking it up, 2003.

It was somebody on Eurodance. Oh, sure, sure. Created this character. And when the song drops, the Crazy Frog says the words, crazy frog. And then it turns into an anthemic dance song. Speaker C: Oh, that sounds good. It is actually okay. But what happened was it became a real thing. Ringtone. But like on early phones. Speaker A: The gift and the curse. Speaker B: Marketed by the ringtone provider Jamba with an exclamation point. Speaker C: There you go. And it was number one for like an ungodly amount of time. And I remember they would, they refused to play it on our one radio station because you'd all have to go around the radio to listen to the one radio station.

And they'd be like, we're not playing this because they didn't think it was proper music. Speaker B: It is not proper music. Speaker C: I will agree with them. Speaker B: When the Beatles started, like when the Sex Pistols, Crazy Frog, you know, all these things were Crazy Frog was the very first Trojan horse, like the Sex Pistols, but for slop music, I guess. They're the first slop. Speaker C: Actually, I think it was. It was the Sex Pistols for slop pistols. You've got to respect innovation. It's like Green Day is like the Crazy Frog.

No, I don't. Speaker C: Actually, I think it was. It was the Sex Pistols for slop pistols. You've got to respect innovation. It's like Green Day is like the Crazy Frog. No, I don't. Speaker B: And yeah, Green Day is too crazy frog as we talk about Green Day a lot on this podcast. Speaker A: So I'm glad that you brought that up. Speaker C: I love early Green Day especially. Speaker A: Well, a lot of people love early Green Day, but I think eventually Billy Joe is going to come on the pod and we're going to be able to grill him like one of your fucking birds.

Yeah. Will you spatchcock him first? Yo, chill, bro. Chill. I ain't into all that shit, bro. I mean, we've been— Speaker B: we've referred to him as having a lesbian haircut for a couple years now. You know, he's really transitioning. Speaker A: I think he— I think— but I think Billy— I think Billy knows that and is— I think he's leaning in. Speaker B: Own it, girl. I think he's comfortable in his skin. Speaker A: I think he's so rich that if he wasn't comfortable in his skin, there'd be a problem.

Yeah. What does, what does spatchcock mean? I know it's a term. I know it's a, I know it's a phrase. Speaker B: It's kind of face down, ass up. Speaker A: That I understand. Yeah. In the oven at 350. Speaker C: It is. It kind of is, to be honest. It's where you, you switch. Speaker A: So you're saying it's when the chef is bottoming. Speaker C: Is that what you're saying? No, the chef is. Speaker B: I'll let you, you're the, I'll let you explain. Speaker C: Jason, go on.

You're the expert. Speaker B: No, you're the expert. No, you both are experts. Speaker A: It sounds like little freaks. Speaker B: But I want to, I would rather give you the, I would rather give you the floor. Speaker C: Sir. Thank you. Yeah, it's where you slice like through the where the ribcage of a bird is. And so you open it up so that you have it flat so you can cook a bird flat and quicker. Speaker B: No, you're the expert. No, you both are experts. Speaker A: It sounds like little freaks.

Speaker B: But I want to, I would rather give you the, I would rather give you the floor. Speaker C: Sir. Thank you. Yeah, it's where you slice like through the where the ribcage of a bird is. And so you open it up so that you have it flat so you can cook a bird flat and quicker. Speaker A: OK, basically. Oh, that's a that's a very fun term for that. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: Yeah, it's good. Yeah. You spatch that cock. You spatch it, bro. I get the cock and I spatch it.

Speaker A: You didn't go to school for this, right? Are you a self-taught shorty? Speaker C: Yeah. I studied politics. Speaker A: Oh, wow. How's that working out? This is fine. Speaker C: I got very good grades at school. Speaker A: I bet you did, little kiss-ass. You were a little brown-noser, weren't you? Speaker C: No, I got— I was almost getting expelled all the time, and I got good— I just go to school drunk. Speaker A: Okay, so you were partying, but you could still pull off— Speaker C: I'm like, no, fuck you.

I wasn't a nerd. Speaker B: I got quite good grades while being blackout drunk. Speaker A: Yeah. Well, then when did you— when did you discover the knife skill? Speaker C: I always like cooking. I like— I would cook for my friends when I was a teenager. Luana, my partner, who was also at the dinner when you were at— yeah, her mom would stay a lot, so when I'd go around there, I'd cook for her. You guys have been going— Speaker A: you guys have been together that long? Speaker C: Since we were 13.

What? Yeah, it's a long time. It's like medieval. Speaker A: And you still ain't put— Speaker C: you still ain't put a ring on it, big bro? We've been engaged since we were like 21, and then it's, it's this thing where we're like, okay, we just need a really close friend to get a big house because I don't want You know? Sure. Speaker A: And you still ain't put— Speaker C: you still ain't put a ring on it, big bro? We've been engaged since we were like 21, and then it's, it's this thing where we're like, okay, we just need a really close friend to get a big house because I don't want You know?

Sure. Speaker B: We all, we all, yeah, we all want that. Book advance was good. It wasn't that good. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Speaker C: But am I gonna go to like Butlins? You don't know what that is. Speaker B: What is that? Butlins? Speaker C: Butlins is like a, uh, it's like a camp where you go like for, for people and their families to go and like, I don't know, have fun by the seaside. Speaker A: That sounds pretty good to me. Speaker B: Sounds like a fucking Crew activation to me.

It's lovely. Speaker C: It's lovely. I can't, I mean, if If I described it properly, I would sound classist and horrible, so I'm just gonna— I'm leaving it at that. So you're— Speaker A: so you're— you're fine? You guys are fine where you are and she's not putting the heat on? Speaker C: She hates me. Speaker A: She's like, come on. Yeah, that's all good. That's all good relationships. Speaker C: Yeah, we're pausing. We're pausing that while I— while I ruthlessly pursue success, and then I have to get back into like trying to understand how to be a loving partner.

Speaker A: You're like, babe, I need a couple years to ruthlessly pursue success and then I'll get right back on it. I'm sorry, it's like absolutely true. Speaker C: I mean, you gotta— but what do you do when you are— Speaker B: when you're in that mindset, but you're the one who goes to the kitchen to make the sandwich. We need to have some, some balance in this relationship. You're supposed to be hustling and grinding, she's doing your laundry, rubbing your feet, making you a sandwich, doing the dishes. But if you're doing all of it, what's she up to?

Speaker C: Painting. Painting? Yeah. Okay, okay. I think she looks pretty. There you go. It takes a little time. Speaker C: Painting. Painting? Yeah. Okay, okay. I think she looks pretty. There you go. It takes a little time. Speaker B: It does, it does. Speaker C: You live with a woman, it's a lot of— it's a lot of effort. And I, I can I don't want to look like a mess all the time. She also, she chooses my clothes, which is nice. I'm like, I was like, I'll choose what we eat, but you have to shop for me.

Speaker B: Oh, I mean, our lives are, I mean, I joked before that our daily diary entries are quite similar, you know, do a podcast and have our missus pick out what we're going to wear to school today. And then I have to make the yummy supper. But yeah, I feel like you have a good sense of style yourself though. Is it just something that she's better at? At her at, or does she just really love it and you let her do it? Or are you shit at dressing? Speaker C: No, I mean, well, because I just wear like the same thing every day.

I just wear like a jacket and trousers of the same color and a white t-shirt. But if I want to do anything more interesting, then I like— also, I, I guess I, I don't— she doesn't choose what I wear every day, but if I, I would never want to buy clothes without her being like, that's nice. I feel lost. I got this, this brand gave me suit because I did a thing with them, but I haven't gone and picked it up yet because we haven't made our schedules work so that she can come and hold my hand when I choose the suit.

Like chaperone. Speaker A: What brand? What brand is this? Uh, it's called Drake's. Yeah, we know Drake's. You're— I mean, you can't really go wrong there, but I feel like you are— you sort of are a darling of the fashion world, so I feel like maybe this is not the first or last free suit Daddy's getting. Speaker A: What brand? What brand is this? Uh, it's called Drake's. Yeah, we know Drake's. You're— I mean, you can't really go wrong there, but I feel like you are— you sort of are a darling of the fashion world, so I feel like maybe this is not the first or last free suit Daddy's getting.

Speaker C: I hope not. Come on, you don't— you— it's nice to have some clothes. I haven't got any of your clothes. Speaker B: No, it'll be nice to, to eventually stop getting paid in suits though. Speaker C: I don't like— yeah, yeah, exactly. You have a whole— Speaker A: you're saying you prefer legal tender over garments for payment? Speaker B: Combination of the two is nice too. Speaker C: Combination. I think a combination, because like there's only so much you can tax back before it gets like suspicious. And like, like, I don't know, the Drake suit for instance, like, I don't know, whatever, £2,000.

I'm not gonna— I wouldn't buy a suit for that much. So it's kind fun. I agree. Yeah, definitely. Speaker A: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And you deserve it. You know, you'll look great in it. It'll be nice to have. Speaker C: Thank you. You're a sweetheart. Speaker B: And shout out to the good people at Drake's. We love those guys. I pulled some notes for the book. I was reading it this morning in the sauna and I feel like— Speaker C: How do you read a book in the sauna? Speaker B: Doesn't it get damp?

Well, it's an infrared dry sauna, not a steam. Okay. Sorry. The book does get damp for sure, just from like my sweat and stuff. The sauna itself is dry, but Chris, not a big food cooking cookbook guy. He's a book collector, but I feel like the opening line of your book is very Chris-coded, quote unquote, dinners are not about the food. They are about the people at the table. And I feel like we're almost getting to a post-food dinner world now. Speaker C: No, because people are so perversely obsessed with food as well at the same time.

Time. Yeah, like, to be real with you, what I've been thinking about recently a lot is the weird way that, like, the interest in food is about two things. On the one hand, it's like, it's because it's not technological, like it's not being on your phone. Actually, at the same time, like, all about Instagram. Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, that's kind of what I was talking about more so, you know, like, is, is the modern definition of a, of a quote-unquote gourmand found somebody who's good at, you know, documenting food that other people make on social media, you know, versus like the traditional whatever 50 years ago being— I don't know, probably a bit, you know, it was almost sexually obsessed with food.

Speaker C: Did you watch that film, um, The Taste of Things, the French film about cooking? It was really— Speaker B: it's a documentary about you. Speaker C: Yeah, well, I watched that, like, over-sentimental trash, but anyway The, the, the, the gourmands in that were like the worst bores ever. They're like, oh, this French rest— this French cook is like opening a new restaurant. He's like a genius. He's like the Napoleon of the kitchen. And you know what, I always think that like maybe people when they were obsessed with food in the '50s, they were bores in one way, and now people are boring in another way, which is like posting pictures.

And then, you know, I agree. Counterpoint, counterpoint. Speaker A: I honestly feel like the heyday of like the plate eats or my phone eats first, like Instagram culture is over. Yeah, I feel like I see that a lot less now. Like, I don't— I think so. You don't see people at restaurants with like a fucking ring light and you would have like 5 or 6 years ago. Speaker A: I honestly feel like the heyday of like the plate eats or my phone eats first, like Instagram culture is over. Yeah, I feel like I see that a lot less now.

Like, I don't— I think so. You don't see people at restaurants with like a fucking ring light and you would have like 5 or 6 years ago. Speaker C: Yeah, I think that was weird because that didn't really happen in the UK in the way I think it was happening in America because of the, the like British like embarrassed self-embarrassment But I do think that like now, you know, like people who are posting pics of their food, which I do all the time, but it's because it's kind of like linked with how I earn money.

And most of the time, like food posters are just kind of like doing it as part of the hustle. Yeah. Speaker B: I think after COVID, we moved the ring light inside of our automobiles and started filming ourselves eating the food in there. Speaker C: Eating that. Isn't it amazing? And also they're eating all the stuff that's like weird colors in the car. Speaker B: Well, I don't know what you mean by that. Speaker A: Dude, I talk about this all the time, man. I get— the only food videos I see on Instagram are guys eating insane cookie collaborations in their car.

Yeah. And they bring like a jug of milk and pour a glass of milk in the car. It's all in the car. Speaker B: Well, because it's embarrassing to do that in public. Speaker C: It is embarrassing, but it's also embarrassing to do it in your car. Also to get— and also like, they probably got mice in their cars because they're like got crumbs everywhere. Speaker A: I ate so many novelty donuts. In my car that the rats attacked it is a bad way to go. Speaker C: It is embarrassing, but it's also embarrassing to do it in your car.

Also to get— and also like, they probably got mice in their cars because they're like got crumbs everywhere. Speaker A: I ate so many novelty donuts. In my car that the rats attacked it is a bad way to go. Speaker B: This is the Ratatouille sequel. Speaker A: We got to get to work on this, guys. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Speaker B: Yeah, the rat has now become a con. He runs a content creation studio in someone's car, someone's Audi. No, no, bro. Speaker A: He's got the new Bronco. That guy eats crumble.

You want to go there. Stay away from the Tesla. That guy's testing vegetables. Speaker B: Close up shop. All his homies come and eat all the crumbs. Speaker C: Would they have like, so they would have a big like like gas guzzling car typically. Yeah, not like a small one. Does the Tesla, big Tesla that you guys have, the, the truck, does that run on petrol or on electricity? Speaker A: No, it's electric. Speaker B: Don't act like you don't have Teslas in, in London, bro. Speaker C: We do have Teslas, but we don't have the big truck one.

Speaker B: You don't have the Cybertruck? Speaker A: No, the Arab, the Arab guys don't drive Teslas. They drive Bentleys and Rolls-Royces. He don't know about that when he's down in Mayfair getting $100 cup of coffee. He's out rubbing elbows with Cybertruck drivers. Speaker C: And our Waymos have people in them, which is weird, like drivers. Speaker B: You're saying the Waymos are still being tested so they have a chaperone driver in there just in case. Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So you see them all the time, but it feels a bit like kind of like the Flintstone car, you know, like where they're like using their feet to make it go along.

Speaker A: Yabba dabba doo ass car. Speaker C: We're not quite in the future. Future. Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So you see them all the time, but it feels a bit like kind of like the Flintstone car, you know, like where they're like using their feet to make it go along. Speaker A: Yabba dabba doo ass car. Speaker C: We're not quite in the future. Future. Speaker A: What is your relationship to America? How have you— I assume you've been to like New York and LA, but have you visited other parts?

Speaker C: Um, I went to Las Vegas to fly out when I was 15. I haven't been to New— to LA as an adult. I've been to New York a bunch, but not to LA. It's far. I'd like to go. Someone should bring me out there. Speaker B: I'll work on it. Maybe our good friends at, uh, uk will get it in the budget, do a little LA book tour. Speaker A: I can set it up for you. uk part's gonna be a hurdle, you know what I'm saying? Just, just, but just budget-wise, just trying to unlock some stuff, move some things around, you know what I mean?

Speaker C: Like you've sold 50 books. Yeah. Speaker A: But you can get it, no, you can get it in America, right? Speaker C: No. Oh, you can't. It's not published there. Speaker A: Okay. I thought maybe. Speaker C: No, I know. I was like, I didn't tell you before we did this cuz I was worried you'd be like, wait, it doesn't even. No, I don't give a shit about that. Speaker A: We don't care if this helps sell your book at all. Speaker B: Well, luckily, luckily we speak English over here too.

The only diff— I mean, I like how unapologetically British it is. Is how, you know, all the timings and measurements are in, in centigrade. Speaker C: And that's like what the rest of the world does. Speaker A: Okay, okay, bro, I'll hang up, I'll hang up this, I'll fucking close this Zoom so fast you start telling me about— Speaker B: Yeah, but if you're, you know, slow roasted salmon, 2 and a half hours at 140, I'm thinking the thing's going to come out black. How does that short out? You know, I don't get it.

Speaker C: And that's like what the rest of the world does. Speaker A: Okay, okay, bro, I'll hang up, I'll hang up this, I'll fucking close this Zoom so fast you start telling me about— Speaker B: Yeah, but if you're, you know, slow roasted salmon, 2 and a half hours at 140, I'm thinking the thing's going to come out black. How does that short out? You know, I don't get it. Speaker C: Yeah, someone else said that, but it's, it's, it's the temperature is really low and it's got a lot of butter in it.

Mm-hmm. If it's a baked salmon, I think it's fine. Speaker A: Our salmon are fresh caught here. No, that's too— Speaker B: OK, that's 284°F. OK, I see that. Speaker C: Yeah, you see, it makes sense. Like, if it's foiled, it's wrapped like it goes. Speaker A: But I don't have 2.5 hours for my house to smell like fucking fish, though. Let's keep it a buck. Speaker C: No, because salmon doesn't like smell like fish in that way. Also, because I know what you mean. Like, it's like when you fry it, it will smell more oily because of like, I know I don't know how it releases, but when you roast it like that, it's not as bad because I wouldn't want that either.

Speaker B: The aerosol release. Speaker C: Although when I originally cooked the 2 and a half, the salmon, it was with these like gigantic salmon, which were like, I don't know what your weights and measures are, but like, like if you had like— Speaker B: Ironically, tell me in pounds, please. Speaker C: £50. And but that's our money. So that's confusing. And And I, it was in all night and it was in a massive Georgian house in Dublin in a, in an argha overnight. So I think that that was where the idea of how to cook it comes from, which you don't have in Europe.

Speaker B: Yeah, get a little 44-pound salmon. Speaker B: Yeah, get a little 44-pound salmon. Speaker C: I don't know why it's not published in America. I don't know why people don't, because like people keep saying like, oh, I don't know why it isn't like it, but maybe it's too English. Maybe they're scared of me. Speaker A: Well, I think it's the classic thing. If you have to show and prove that it works in your own country before they We'll, you know, do it, do a run, go wide with it.

Speaker B: We're not ready to go wide with you just quite yet. Speaker A: Who's— so who's hiring you to do all these freaky little dinners? Like, what's the clientele looking like? Speaker C: Like galleries and some individuals. Speaker B: Who's the most famous individual? The Queen. Speaker A: Bro, hold the fuck on. Speaker C: You're telling me that I'm— no, no, not really. She's dead. Speaker A: But I just— I know she's dead, but I thought maybe there was— I thought you were making a joke about some sort of royal family, you know what I mean?

Wanting some. Speaker C: So you've prepared a royal meal? No, no, but I prepared meal for minor aristocrats, but they don't have any money. So British is full of minor aristocrats. Speaker A: That doesn't really count. You know what I mean? That's— Speaker C: No, I don't know who my client list is. My client list is both much better than it appears on paper and also probably like embarrassing, which is why I'm trying to get an agent to shop me around more. So I make some money. Speaker A: Those things just seem so stressful to me, you know what I mean?

Because you're, you're always in a new location. Yeah, I assume you have a team you bring with you that's the same, but everything else sort of is variable. Speaker C: But I always— I design a menu like based on what the kitchen is there rather than the other round. I will like, if it's far away, I'll get a video or I'll do a site visit before, and then I'll be like, okay, I can do this. Because I've like cooked for like 100 people in a tent on of a big hill in with like two gas burners.

Then you're like, okay, well, I'll cook what works for that instead of being like, oh, I'm going to roast a salmon. Speaker A: Those things just seem so stressful to me, you know what I mean? Because you're, you're always in a new location. Yeah, I assume you have a team you bring with you that's the same, but everything else sort of is variable. Speaker C: But I always— I design a menu like based on what the kitchen is there rather than the other round. I will like, if it's far away, I'll get a video or I'll do a site visit before, and then I'll be like, okay, I can do this.

Because I've like cooked for like 100 people in a tent on of a big hill in with like two gas burners. Then you're like, okay, well, I'll cook what works for that instead of being like, oh, I'm going to roast a salmon. Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I can't wait to hire you for a dinner one day. Speaker A: I want that. It'll be a discounted rate, but we'll figure it out. Speaker B: I'll do it for free. No, don't. No, no, no, no. Exposure. Speaker A: We got to pay for materials, though.

Speaker C: Yeah. I don't know, maybe I'm— Speaker A: because I ain't got time to go to the farmer's market. So like, I, I'll give you my credit card or whatever, but I can't really be going down there. Speaker C: I'll take your credit cards and I'll— yeah, I'll just take your credit card. Speaker A: That's, that's how we'll do the best. I'll give it back when I feel like it. Speaker B: He'll— yeah, he'll know which saffron you'll, you'll want the most, Chris. Don't worry. Speaker A: Oh, I know.

Yeah. What did you cook when I ate? What did you— what did we have at Issy's house that that night. Do you remember? Speaker C: I heard you saying when you were doing the interview that I was messy. Speaker A: The kitchen was— look, you were spread out in there. Speaker C: Let me say that. Very. It's a different— Speaker A: you were, you were, you were spatchcocked in there is what I'm saying. Speaker C: That kitchen is really hard when there's a party because there's like 12 people standing in the kitchen.

Look, I'm not saying— Speaker C: I heard you saying when you were doing the interview that I was messy. Speaker A: The kitchen was— look, you were spread out in there. Speaker C: Let me say that. Very. It's a different— Speaker A: you were, you were, you were spatchcocked in there is what I'm saying. Speaker C: That kitchen is really hard when there's a party because there's like 12 people standing in the kitchen. Look, I'm not saying— Speaker A: look, I don't— I'm not, I'm not disagreeing with any of these factors, but I'm saying I like a clean— Speaker B: personally, in my restaurant, you didn't do a site visit before going?

Because I, I thought every kitchen you go into and you cook the meal according according to that, but I'm just kind of confused now. This is like firing line. Speaker A: I have to say, you just said that. It's not a contentious British debate. You literally just said that. So I'm trying to understand. I'm just trying to understand, big bro. Speaker B: It was fresh on the mind. Speaker C: I was cooking with my buddy. So I wasn't, you know, if it was a professional kitchen, I would have an assistant.

It would be clean. I cooked like a variety of different flat fishes, didn't I? Speaker A: They were delicious. No, I remember it all being very good. Speaker C: It was like Turbot, I think. Yes, a classic turbot. Yeah, a classic. Do you have a turbot pan? No, I'd love one though. Isn't that a beautiful thing that they have the like the diamond shape? Speaker A: Is it shaped like the fish? Is it? Speaker C: Oh yeah, yeah. Beautiful. It's so— oh, that's cool. Speaker B: It's sort of the final boss of copper cookware, I would say, is that it's like the most unitasker thing.

Like you pull it out once every 4 years. It costs, you know, $1,800. Speaker C: I mean, you could, you could, you could roast anything you wanted. In it. It's true. Speaker B: It's sort of the final boss of copper cookware, I would say, is that it's like the most unitasker thing. Like you pull it out once every 4 years. It costs, you know, $1,800. Speaker C: I mean, you could, you could, you could roast anything you wanted. In it. It's true. Speaker A: But the shape, the shape is particular.

Speaker B: That could be good for an editorial. Yeah, something random in the turbot pan. You joking? Chicken in the turbot pan? Now I've heard everything. Speaker C: I'd be on the news. You fucking joking? They'd be like scandalized. I'd be like the Sex Pistols. I'd get the Vapors. Speaker A: The food community would come for your damn neck, that's for sure. All right, so we had some fish, and I feel like there was a salad that I liked too, but my memory is failing me. Speaker C: No, you're right, it was a salad.

It was, I think, I believe it was either radicchio or puntarelli. Radicchio. Radicchio. And I think there was some roast potatoes. And then afterwards we had some trifle, I believe, which is kind of like an English tiramisu. Speaker A: I brought my own water to that dinner. I came with two big, big Evian for myself because I was thirsty. I just wanted— Speaker C: and you were talking, you were talking to Yasi. Yes. And I was like, you both are podcasters, right? Because you were podcasting. It was crazy. Crazy. Like, you want— you— Speaker A: yeah, where you were talking, when two people— when two people that have podcasts talk to each other, that is technically a podcast, whether mics are there or not.

That's honestly true. Speaker B: That's— and then everyone else at the table, it's sort of understood that you will be quiet and only observe. Oh, we just watched. Speaker C: Yeah, we just watched. Speaker B: That's— and then everyone else at the table, it's sort of understood that you will be quiet and only observe. Oh, we just watched. Speaker C: Yeah, we just watched. Speaker B: It was wonderful. You become an audience member. Speaker C: Witty repartee that was coming off those two. Yeah, you guys just— Speaker B: okay, well, Chris, I'll ask you this question.

How sexual was this meal on a scale of 1 to 10? Speaker A: I would say this setting was too friendly. Yeah. It was probably a 6, 7. Yeah. But I didn't know anybody there except Issy and Yossi. But everyone was friendly. Oh, totally. I'm just saying it wasn't— I wonder how other people would answer this question because I don't know. You know what I mean? I don't know them. Speaker C: It was— I don't think it was particularly sexual. Speaker A: Sexy. It was friendly. But Jason's saying the sex is oozing out of you and you don't have a choice.

It's on the plate. Speaker C: I don't have a choice. Speaker B: It's on the plate. Speaker C: It's in my hands, my face. I walk around— I mean, like, I know that in America I've got like weird teeth and, and like a funny face, but in, in, on these islands, they're like, wow, that is a, that is a handsome young man right there. Speaker A: Sure. So you're saying if you leave your zone, maybe they'd misinterpret what you got going on, but in the motherland, they see you coming, they say, get out of the way.

Speaker C: Actually, you know what, I said that, but you know, Americans will say, they're falling over themselves. It's even worse. Speaker B: Okay, so you went from being Big Turbot, Small Pond to just everyone is— every pond is full of shit water. Speaker B: Okay, so you went from being Big Turbot, Small Pond to just everyone is— every pond is full of shit water. Speaker C: No, the opposite. Every pond is full of ambrosia. Speaker B: Okay, well, so you're an eye 10 and a mainland 6 is what you're saying.

Speaker C: Mainland 7, island 10. Okay. Speaker B: Well, are you consciously aware of the sexuality in your cooking and sort of lifestyle and philosophy, or does it just kind of come out? Is it something that you're aware of and you try to include, or is it something that you try to regulate even? Speaker C: Can I try and regulate? Yeah, I actually try and regulate. I try and make a little less come out than would naturally. Speaker B: A little less come out, you know, in the same way that somebody is like, hey, this R-rated film should be PG-13.

You know, let's, let's kind of cut some of that. Yeah. Speaker A: Depending on your audience. Yeah. Like Jason saying, if you're cooking outside in Ireland for some fat boys under some tents. Yeah. It's like we're going to tone it down. But if it's, if it's, you know, Vogue is coming to XYZ, it's a little— you're going to turn it up. Speaker B: The fashion neurosis dinner. Speaker C: American Vogue did a report on my, on my book party that just came out today. What'd they say? That it was lovely.

They were very nice. That's great. Speaker A: Okay, I'm saying they love you. They love you over here. Speaker B: Shout out to your PR. Speaker C: Nothing is to do with my PR. I do it all myself. Oh, I believe that. I mean, no, no, not nothing. Henry is great. That's— I forgot this was public. Speaker A: Okay, I'm saying they love you. They love you over here. Speaker B: Shout out to your PR. Speaker C: Nothing is to do with my PR. I do it all myself. Oh, I believe that.

I mean, no, no, not nothing. Henry is great. That's— I forgot this was public. Speaker A: I forgot this was public. Speaker C: I thought I was just with these two And having a chat. Speaker B: Yeah, that happens to us all the time because we, like, our producer Ian, like, he helps us out and he does so much on our podcast. But in every interview, Chris and I are like, it's just us, baby. Just him and, you know, we do it all ourselves, you know. And it's easy to kind of slip into that mindset even if you don't believe it.

Speaker C: It's like Joey Tribbiani in Friends when he gets fired from Days of Our Lives because he says he writes the script. Speaker A: No, I kind of do it all. Speaker B: I actually just— Speaker A: exactly, I kind of handle it. I kind of handle it myself. Speaker B: Goddamn it. Um, on the, um, and on the, on the subject of serving weeknight meals, you, you sort of break dinner parties down into, you know, weeknights, weekends, Sunday lunch, long lunches, cooking for sick people, people you're fucking, people, your family.

What whatever. And there's a chapter called Dinner for Lovers. And it was kind of interesting because it's, you know, you were really outlining the playbook for, you know, fucking food. Speaker C: You know what I mean? Speaker B: In so many words. Yeah. And I like that you were sort of including the importance of like, yes, it should be a lighter meal because of the fucking, but also like it shouldn't be so Puritan that it sort of takes you out of that mood. So really riding that sweet spot. Of, you know, the perfect amount of cum protein and stuff like that, you know.

Sorry. Speaker C: You know what I mean? Speaker B: In so many words. Yeah. And I like that you were sort of including the importance of like, yes, it should be a lighter meal because of the fucking, but also like it shouldn't be so Puritan that it sort of takes you out of that mood. So really riding that sweet spot. Of, you know, the perfect amount of cum protein and stuff like that, you know. Sorry. Speaker C: No, no, no. I was, I was enjoying it. And you said cum protein.

Speaker B: I was going too far. It was beautiful. Speaker C: It was a lovely description. I, yeah, I mean, that was, that was nice to write. I think food is like obviously inextricably linked the erotic because it's also kind of disgusting and the erotic is kind of disgusting. Mm-hmm. Speaker B: Like, yeah, I think about that a lot with like foods that have like nasty smells and pungent flavors. And, you know, it's just I should not be eating this blue cheese. Everything about me is saying not to have, you know, this calf's brain or whatever.

But damn, I want it. Despite everything, I want it now. Can't resist. Yeah, I don't know. Speaker C: I like, I like trying to— I think that's a good example of like actually telling someone how to do it. Because I think if you were like a young person and you wanted to have someone around for a date, maybe if you're not like me and you don't have like immediate natural rizz, maybe, maybe having a book had to tell you it's good. Yeah. Speaker B: You're saying young people learn from my mistakes.

Speaker A: Yeah. He doesn't have any. Speaker B: Admire my rizz. Is just pure success, 100% success. But I mean, I've, I've definitely cooked a lot of, you know, sexual meals that— and, and mistakes were made, you know. You have to sort of learn the hard way. No, of course. But thanks, thanks to, to creators like you, many of our young people don't have to learn the hard way. Which, is that good or bad? It sort of goes back to our, you know, aging prematurely conversation from the beginning. Well, no, no woman's gonna— Speaker A: no woman's gonna go to a guy's house for dinner at this point.

They're too afraid. You got to take them to a You can't, you can't do this anymore. Maybe in England, in America, if you, if you ask a woman over for first date to cook and you're going to cook, no first date, no third date, fifth date, they ain't going to do it. Speaker B: What if you have a well-established DM convo? Speaker A: With, with, no, we know each other. We talked a lot. We thought we matched on it. Speaker B: We matched. I didn't just pick her up at the Pizza Express.

I mean, you know, things we've been, we've been married. We've been dry brining for quite some time. I always, whenever I hear you guys, I always admire you. Speaker C: Admire the sort of the breadth of knowledge you have for English culture. Like Pizza Express is beautiful. It is perfect. Speaker A: And neither of us ever eaten there, but it's a, it's a mainstay on many corners. Speaker B: A logo that I admire, but I have no idea. Speaker A: Great logo. You know, Jason, Pizza Express is, is, is feels to me like a less swaggy Mellow Mushroom in many ways.

Logo-wise. Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. You know what I mean? It's like an AI-generated Mellow Mushroom logo. Speaker B: A logo that I admire, but I have no idea. Speaker A: Great logo. You know, Jason, Pizza Express is, is, is feels to me like a less swaggy Mellow Mushroom in many ways. Logo-wise. Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. You know what I mean? It's like an AI-generated Mellow Mushroom logo. Speaker C: What's a Mellow Mushroom? Speaker A: Mellow Mushroom is an American delicacy that is located mostly in the southern region. I would say it's a, it's a small, small chain.

I bet there's 20 of them, maybe 30. Speaker B: Small to mid-sized regional pizza chain that has a Southern America hippie aesthetic to it, but it's low-key good. Speaker A: Yeah, it's like the food is at— like, the pizza is good, but it does— it's like each, each person who owns one can kind of freak the decorations as much. Speaker C: Oh, so it's got like a— oh, I love that where you have a franchise and so you have different decor, but it's, but it's all the same, but it's slightly different, you know what I mean?

Speaker A: It's like they have a catalog they can choose from and each person chooses something different. I would to say is how hard working— Speaker C: but sorry, I'm just plugging my computer. Speaker A: Well, we're almost, we're almost done, so this shit's gonna die, bro. I gotta go to dinner. Speaker B: Well, what a beautiful rustic kitchen behind you. Amazing kitchen. Thank you. Speaker C: It is pretty. You can check it out on the internet as well. Speaker A: Yeah, I, I feel like, um, I feel like the— you know, as a person who doesn't cook, I'm very jealous of the, um, knife holder things on the wall.

I've always thought those look quite cool. They're good. Speaker C: And also, I always like think that if they were like zombies or, uh, roadmen coming in and you needed to grab like something to do. I, I have never in my life said roadmen before, but I thought for you guys this is the right place. Speaker C: And also, I always like think that if they were like zombies or, uh, roadmen coming in and you needed to grab like something to do. I, I have never in my life said roadmen before, but I thought for you guys this is the right place.

Speaker B: Look, the problem with having all of your murder weapons hung all in, in plain view in the center of your room is those roadmen can use those knives on you. Yeah, I've— I have, I have 50 drawers in my kitchen. The killing knives are only in one. By the time they get to to him. Roadman dead. Speaker A: You guys should, you guys should check out guns. It's a lot easier. It's like a lot. Speaker B: The other problem, I mean, it's like putting your gun on the, on the dining room table.

You're asking to get shot. Speaker C: Last time I was in America, I got to go shoot guns with this hillbilly up in the Catskills. That was so— I'm sure. Speaker B: Does this hillbilly have a podcast? Speaker C: No, he did not. No, he doesn't even know. I didn't even know if he knew what a podcast was. Speaker A: A real one. Speaker C: You're in good hands brother. He's a real one. He didn't— I asked it, I got to his house and I was like, can I have a glass of water?

And he was like, what are you, a queer? Yeah, he called me a queer. And, um, and, um, and he was like, no, you can't have a glass of water, I don't have any more cups. He was holding a tin cup and I was like, what do you mean you don't have any more cups? And he was like, I have a canteen in this cup. Wow. Speaker A: I have I have single cup. Yeah. One cup. Damn, bro. That sounds like me trying to get my flour rations. Speaker B: Yeah.

How did you incorporate the feeling of gunfire into the bedroom later that night? Speaker A: I have I have single cup. Yeah. One cup. Damn, bro. That sounds like me trying to get my flour rations. Speaker B: Yeah. How did you incorporate the feeling of gunfire into the bedroom later that night? Speaker C: I wasn't traveling with a sexual partner. Speaker B: With a lover. Got it. Speaker C: I just masturbated and listened to the sounds that I'd recorded earlier in the day. Sure. Of course. Speaker A: Nothing like a gun going off.

Sounds like a Björk song. Yeah. It gets you on chub real quick. Jesus Christ. All right. Speaker B: Put a Rosalía song on my headphones. Ones that start violently jacking me up. Thank you for joining us. To Entertain is available anywhere except America is what it sounds like. Basically, yeah. Do check it out. Speaker A: No, it was good to see you. Thank you for joining us. And hopefully we can break bread soon. We'll be in London soon. Speaker B: Yeah, we'll be in London a couple of times this summer.

We'll hit you up. Speaker C: Yeah, hit me up. Speaker A: I'm going to force you to cook for us in that freaky little kitchen. Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love that. Have a good time at ¡Gracias! Speaker A: You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's OmniShade technology technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at

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