910. - Leonard Baby

Speaker A: All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it 3 times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? Speaker B: We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

Speaker A: All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. Hallo, long gone. Sorry, my shit is tangled. We're back, baby. It's a sunny Tuesday here in Charleston. I'm still stranded, thanks to our friend God. For, you know, dumping all that, giving, letting Zoran give us 20 inches. It's been a humbling journey, but the end is near, Jason. Speaker B: That's what you think, but you know, God can really do so many mysterious things so randomly you don't even know. God is random as hell.

But you mentioned it and other people are mentioning it and I was wondering, you've been a native New Yorker for many years now. I don't recall there ever being a situation where the mayor, whoever was mayor, it was sort of talked about as if he was the person who was like in control of the weather. Yeah. You know what I mean? Speaker A: I think it's more of a quick and easy test of a mayor's capabilities, I guess, to clean up the snow. And therefore, which is sort of, I mean, sure, I'm sure it always was that way, but because Zoran is so young and plugged in and wearing his custom Carhartt jacket and hiring freelance creative snow movers, I think maybe it's a little bit, I think he's taken it to task because he, he might look at it as an easy W.

And from what I've seen, it does look like the roads are pretty fucking clean. And, and I have people on the ground reporting that like, yeah, what would you know about that, Charleston? Speaker B: You're one of those, you're, you're what, what's the, who's the guy? Ted? Ted Cruz, whenever there was some weather in Texas, he goes to Laguna Beach. Speaker A: Look, there's many things about Ted Cruz that I don't like. That is one thing about Ted Cruz I think is— Speaker B: Look, you and Ted, you both, you don't have anything in common other than the fact that you abandoned your city in its most time of need.

Speaker A: Yeah, they need me there. I could have made $30 an hour shoveling snow, which honestly I would have done for the story. I mean, it'd be great for the shoulders. Upper back, you know what I mean? You got to brace your core a lot. I've never— if I'm keeping it an absolute buck with you, I've never shoveled snow. Speaker B: Um, well, I'm glad I was sitting down. Speaker A: I know, I know, I know. Speaker B: You're shoveling statistics. Speaker A: I grew up in the South. I've raked leaves, I've spread pine straw, I've cut grass.

Those are our chores, you know what I mean? Speaker B: Like, you're more of a rake and spread, less of a scoop and shovel. Speaker B: Um, well, I'm glad I was sitting down. Speaker A: I know, I know, I know. Speaker B: You're shoveling statistics. Speaker A: I grew up in the South. I've raked leaves, I've spread pine straw, I've cut grass. Those are our chores, you know what I mean? Speaker B: Like, you're more of a rake and spread, less of a scoop and shovel. Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.

Don't make me— Speaker B: you don't plow, you get plowed. I get it. Speaker A: Exactly, I get plowed. Normally. Um, but yeah, so, so we got pounded by 20 inches. Everything seems to be recovering. The weather is kind of warm and the sun is out. So I think it's going to melt pretty quickly. My 6:00 AM Delta flight is, is currently still on time. Speaker B: Okay. So, you know, it's looking, it's looking good and hopeful. Speaker A: Staying hopeful. Okay. Speaker B: Yeah. Today, high of 78. Friday, high of 86.

Mamma mia. Speaker A: Is it, is it sunny though? Speaker B: Oh, she's sunny. Speaker A: Okay, good. Thank God. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: I'm looking forward to it. I mean, there's so much going on. I mean, we got Tourette syndrome. We've got Kash Patel in the locker room, you know, listening to Toby Keith with The Winners from Team USA Hockey. I mean, it's— we still haven't found Shorty's mom. I mean, it's going— Speaker B: well, let's start at the start. First off, I wanted to do a correction on the last episode, something that I'm embarrassed about because it's a fact that I knew, but for whatever reason It didn't clock with me when I was reading the description or looking it up, but we were talking about the menu from Joe Budden's chef when they're preparing their kind of Cuban feast.

Or I called it mojo sauce, but it's technically mojo. Mojo. Mojo. Okay. Yeah, I mean, whatever. Maybe I was in the headspace of a mojo potato. Maybe my caucasity was sticking out a little bit more, flaring up more so, and it was— Cloudy, my Latinx pronunciation. Speaker A: I'm sorry to hear that, 'cause that is embarrassing for you. I, people expect me not to know anything, so that's kind of how I, how I get away with it. I know. Speaker B: I mean, I got, I got multiple DMs saying, I expect this behavior from Chris, but not for you.

And other people are like, I know how you like to do voices and accents and you really kind of blew a great opportunity for, you know, for you to say mojosas. Speaker A: I just, I just don't, I mean, thank you to all those people pointing out the important inaccuracies on How Long Gone and making sure Jason knows that he mispronounced a word that he doesn't use. I think it's important. Speaker B: Look, I like the accountability. You know, it's the type of thing that a young me would do, perhaps, you know, get a little drunk and say, let me get in this bitch's comments real quick.

Let me tell you how to pronounce this shit. You don't know shit about sous vide, motherfucker. You know, something like that. But yeah, we do need to have a little frank talk about Tourette syndrome, right? Is it the new Lyme? Speaker A: I mean, I think it's— Speaker B: Or the patience for Tourette's is starting to run a little thin. Speaker A: I think that people have never actually encountered Tourette's, you know what I mean? It's like a thing that you see maybe on TV or you see someone make fun of, but it's never really— it's never— so I think this instance, um, it, you know, I think maybe knowing what, what could happen, uh, you just kind of let this guy accept his award from the comfort of his own home, you know what I mean?

Or, or whatever. I don't, I don't know if he needed to be there in the building. If you're, if you're unfamiliar Um, if you've been living under a rock, a man with Tourette syndrome who's— I think he was nominated. He had some sort— he had a real reason to be there. He wasn't like somebody's plus one. He was like— he was nominated for a BAFTA or— Speaker B: he wasn't a seat filler. He had a reason to be there. Speaker A: Yeah, he had a reason to be there. And he, uh, when Michael B.

Jordan and, um, I'm forgetting who the other— the older guy who's nominated for everything, who's dope, uh, were, were were presenting an award, he blurted out, uh, the N-word is what I have. I've seen the video, um, and I live to tell the tale. It is, um, it is something else, man. Speaker B: It's a jump scare because you know it's gonna happen, you know, it's a quiet— you, you know it's coming, but it still hits you when it hit— when it happens, you know what I mean? It's heavy. Speaker A: It really does.

It really does. So I, I think that there's a solution here. I think it's— I'm not trying to get into— well, I'm just I'm not trying to get into the ins and outs of the technicalities of Tourette syndrome. I'm not a doctor. I don't fucking know. But whereas I will get into those, that when you're televising an award show, you could either bleep that out because it's definitely on tape delay or you don't invite the guy at all. Those are the two options you have. The option is not— Speaker B: there's more options than that, Chris.

There's way more fun options. Speaker A: What are the options? I don't know what the options are. I don't know. Speaker B: Okay, you bring, you bring, you bring a person with Tourette's to an important thing. Kind of similar to when you— let's say you bring a screaming baby on an airplane, you hand out a little— here's a little earplugs and some Reese's Pieces, I'm so sorry. You do that, or you bring a dog on, the dog is going to do something, going to bark during the flight, you don't want to— you know, whatever it is, you know, crush up a couple Benadryls in this Tourette guy's, you know, sous vide egg bite, and he is— okay, so you're saying he's not going to be asleep during the BAFTAs, but he'll be sedated.

Speaker A: So I'm suggesting bleep the word out or uninvite him from the awards. And you're suggest— you're more thinking tranq dart style or like whiskey in the baby bottle type of move. Speaker B: A little bit of that. I also have another move which could maybe be more offensive, you know, some type of muzzle situation. You know, when you got a bad dog walking them around the park and sometimes they got the little choke collar with the spikes, sometimes they got the muzzle, sometimes they just got a little like piece of fabric over the mouth like a horse.

You know, there's a varying scale of ferocity. Speaker A: As much as I like your problematic solutions, I think that muzzling a human being would be looked down upon even in the UK. Speaker B: Well, like you said, either there's two options. Either you don't go to the formal award show ceremony because the chances of you screaming the most offensive word in the English language to a Black person on live on camera is, let's call it 50%. So maybe let's not take that risk. Or, you know, a little mouth tape, you know, a little hostage tape.

Speaker A: People are getting, well, people are also now like, you know, come on, man. Like, how did this get in your head at all? You know, they're asking questions. Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it really does open up. It's bad. It's a bad press. It's set Tourette's back decades. Speaker A: Oh, Tourette's is open. Speaker B: People are starting to wonder like, so they're, They're prone to outbursts and yell random things all the time. And people are asking, well, if it's so random outbursts, how come it's always the N-word or like something completely fucked up?

Why aren't they yelling pepperoni pizza? Why aren't they yelling? Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it really does open up. It's bad. It's a bad press. It's set Tourette's back decades. Speaker A: Oh, Tourette's is open. Speaker B: People are starting to wonder like, so they're, They're prone to outbursts and yell random things all the time. And people are asking, well, if it's so random outbursts, how come it's always the N-word or like something completely fucked up? Why aren't they yelling pepperoni pizza? Why aren't they yelling? Speaker A: I mean, look, once again, I don't know the answers here, but I would say this was— this was— Speaker B: figure them out.

Speaker A: This was something else, though. I got to say, like watching Kash Patel guzzle a beer with a bunch of white boys in the locker room. Speaker B: He's never watched a game of hockey in his life. Right? Speaker A: I mean, who has? I mean, come on, like, unless you're— unless you're Canadian or you're— or you're from Michigan, I don't think hockey is really your— like, that— it's— it's like, if I pretended to be into hockey, that would be stolen valor. The only sport I'm allowed to be into as a Southern person technically is— is college football.

Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: Um, because you're from Los Angeles, you're— of basketball— NBA basketball is available to you. If I was from, let's say, North Carolina, college basketball would be available to me. Speaker B: Go Heels. Speaker A: You know, there's— there's— there's ins and outs of this stuff. Hockey is a sport that you have cash. Speaker B: He's got the cricket. That's about it. Speaker A: Cash. Yeah. Cash. Are you saying cash ain't? I think that that whole thing, the visual of that. Speaker B: Isn't it a bummer that as the head director of the FBI, cash does rule everything around us?

Speaker A: I was hoping you weren't going to say that, but it's true. It's he, he does actually rule everything around us, but I don't know. I don't know. Speaker B: Isn't it a bummer that as the head director of the FBI, cash does rule everything around us? Speaker A: I was hoping you weren't going to say that, but it's true. It's he, he does actually rule everything around us, but I don't know. I don't know. Speaker B: You know, they call it butter chicken, but they put a little cream in there too.

Speaker A: But I feel like the guys are upset. I feel like people are upset that the, that the hockey team, you know, partied with this this problematic Trump FBI director. I mean, what are you supposed to do? You're a 24-year-old with missing 3 teeth trying to get drunk after you just won a gold medal. I don't think you're working the door at the fucking, you know, ice rink in Milan to make sure that the bad guy from government doesn't slip in there. And I saw a lot of musicians tweeting about this being like, we all know this guy.

We all know the guy who's backstage for no reason. And we don't know, nobody really know, nobody really knows him. You know what I mean? But we're all— you got to kind of deal with them all night. I think that's what— I think that's what Cash was here. He was on the— he was on the, like, the promoter's list and wanted to sit in the green room and get some of your carrots, is what I'm— is what I'm trying to say. Speaker B: Guys, great set tonight. Yeah, you mind if I grab one of these?

You mind if I grab one of it? Do you want anything? Do you want anything? Speaker A: Do you guys have any mixers? Yeah, so that— that's— that's what I think the Cash situation is more like. I think it's more like he snuck backstage and now he's in the— he's in the headlining act's green room and doesn't really know what to do. Speaker B: So we're all out of cranberry? Speaker A: Okay, no, it's fine, because I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't even, I don't care if those hockey players are fucking diehard Republicans.

I'm gonna say 8 outta 10 didn't know who he was. Speaker B: Absolutely. Speaker A: Cash ain't got the face card like that. It ain't, he's not, you know, we don't, you, if you know him, you hate, to know him is to hate him. And I don't think these guys even, I don't even think these guys were capable of it. Speaker B: So we're all out of cranberry? Speaker A: Okay, no, it's fine, because I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't even, I don't care if those hockey players are fucking diehard Republicans.

I'm gonna say 8 outta 10 didn't know who he was. Speaker B: Absolutely. Speaker A: Cash ain't got the face card like that. It ain't, he's not, you know, we don't, you, if you know him, you hate, to know him is to hate him. And I don't think these guys even, I don't even think these guys were capable of it. Speaker B: Yeah. I want my Olympic athletes, especially ones who are medaling, I want their dedication to their, their sport and their craft to be so strong that they have no idea what's happening in the world today.

Yeah. Like you need, they have no idea that Puerto Vallarta has been seized by a cartel. Speaker A: You need to be brain dead from smelling salts. Like, you need to— Speaker B: they don't know what's going on in Greenland right now. Speaker A: No, hell no. And they— nor should they. So I want to take the blame off of them, even though I'm sure some of them— Speaker B: I don't want to know how much a gallon of gas costs. I want them to eat, breathe, sleep, and drink Puck, and only Puck.

Speaker A: Puck only, man. I think that's a— I think that's— Speaker B: no airmail. Speaker A: I don't want to give these guys— I don't want to give these guys, you know, I think they're probably, you know, They're probably a mixed bag of young fellas as far as their beliefs go. And I think I also saw somebody talking about sort of the enduring nature of the hockey haircut, the helmet hair, the flow as they say, if you're really in the ends. And it is an enduring look and it has crossed over a little bit into the baseball arena because obviously they're wearing a hat.

You know, you can see something coming out of the bottom, the jewelry is attached, but— Speaker B: I hate the baseball jewelry. Looks like fucking Mardi Gras beads. Speaker B: I hate the baseball jewelry. Looks like fucking Mardi Gras beads. Speaker A: Baseball jewelry is one of the worst things to ever happen. It looks like they're wearing a microphone on a reality show where they're shirtless, you know what I mean? It doesn't, it doesn't really work. Speaker B: Gotta have something to clamp the, the windscreen mic onto. Speaker A: Exactly.

It doesn't, it doesn't work stylistically. But the hockey hair for the, for the guys, it does work. And I mean, obviously it's also taken over Austin and Charleston, but these guys aren't playing hockey, they're just running in bandit tights. So you can't, you know, you can't win them all. Speaker B: But they're doing some Metalwoods golf activations, dude. Speaker A: No, my, my fucking 3-wood is actually going long, dude. Speaker B: It's golf, but it's, it's like camo, but it's also golf. So it's a little different. Golf is different. Speaker A: Dude, we do golf different.

We only drink 12 beers. My dad drinks 14, so it's a little different when we go out. We do bumps on the night, on the, on the turn. All right, we have a guest today, um, my, my buddy, uh, Leonard Baby. His show Resting Babyface opens during Freeze LA at Villa Carlotta, actually tomorrow, or today, Wednesday. Speaker B: It's actually pronounced Via. Speaker A: Via. Speaker C: Via. Via. Speaker B: I'll let you finish. Speaker A: Uh, and, um, it's, it's called Resting Babyface. I love his work, and he's— him and I have hung out a few times, um, and there's a great story about how he in, in Financial Times, How to Spend It, about how he sort of is famously works from bed.

Um, which is something that I feel like we also do in the podcast business a little bit. I feel like we have a lot to talk about. Plus he was raised religious, so I'm a bedder. Yeah, I know you're a bedder. I'm on my bedded thread. Speaker B: All right, let's give him a, let's give him a jingle. Speaker B: All right, let's give him a, let's give him a jingle. Speaker A: This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May.

which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month. And this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own, but the truth is no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

Speaker B: I agree, Chris. And sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody, even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them. Because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most— that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp, choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it, and, you know, have some breakthroughs.

Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, damn, I really am him. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at com/howlong. That is com/howlong. Speaker A: This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason.

It's, uh, it's trying to slow down on the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. Speaker B: A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast 3 times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Speaker A: 3 times a week. And I, I have a feeling, just based on the platform and these talking points, that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do.

That's just a guess. Speaker B: The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Speaker A: Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, uh, Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch on YouTube. It's 3 times a week. And, and who couldn't use more news, you know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it, give it a listen.

Give it a listen. Speaker B: Yeah, turn the video on so we could— we don't, we don't publish the video though, don't worry. It's audio only. But this is just— is it like archived for your documentary one day, or I jack off to it. Speaker A: Yeah, I was gonna say, I knew there's a jerk-off joke coming here somewhere. Speaker B: No, no, it's just, it's just so we can, you know, see each other. And, you know, sometimes I'll say a joke and you'll think it's funny, but you won't want to laugh audibly, so you'll do like, uh-huh.

Speaker A: I, I look, I think that you maybe are in a different— sometimes we have guests that are unable to, uh, acknowledge certain jokes that we're making because that would be bad for their business. Speaker B: No, no, it's just, it's just so we can, you know, see each other. And, you know, sometimes I'll say a joke and you'll think it's funny, but you won't want to laugh audibly, so you'll do like, uh-huh. Speaker A: I, I look, I think that you maybe are in a different— sometimes we have guests that are unable to, uh, acknowledge certain jokes that we're making because that would be bad for their business.

Speaker C: And so, period. Speaker A: But when we're on, when we're on camera, we can at least see them smile smiling and enjoying it, but they— there's a certain level of person who perfect— who has perfected the, um, silent laugh for these occasions. Speaker C: I'm still learning what I am and I'm not allowed to laugh at. Speaker B: Well, you're an emerging artist in the space, so you still have so many years, if not decades, to master this. Speaker A: Fair. What do you— I feel like you're allowed to laugh at anything.

You're, you're on the— you work for yourself, baby. It's all good. Speaker C: You think? Speaker B: CEO of this shit. Speaker A: I mean, do you— I mean, and I guess in some ways you work for the gallery. Maybe you could think of it as you work for the collectors. But the collectors are all bad people anyway. Speaker C: That's true. Yeah. Speaker A: So you're fine. Yeah. So it's not, I mean, it's not really, it's, it's all good. They're not gonna be offended. That's for sure. Speaker B: But when you say, so obviously the collectors are what you need to make a living to, right.

You know, put money on, put food on your family's table, put geek in your geek bar. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker B: But, but it is widely known and spoken that they are evil, a necessary evil. Do you think they almost like to be talked down upon? So then they can then buy your artwork and control your life and make you go to dinners? Speaker C: I actually do think so. And I've heard— I've heard that like the more, I don't know, preachy the work is, the more conservative the collector is, if that makes it like the more conflict you have politically with the work, like the more it would sell to a—

Speaker B: But, but it is widely known and spoken that they are evil, a necessary evil. Do you think they almost like to be talked down upon? So then they can then buy your artwork and control your life and make you go to dinners? Speaker C: I actually do think so. And I've heard— I've heard that like the more, I don't know, preachy the work is, the more conservative the collector is, if that makes it like the more conflict you have politically with the work, like the more it would sell to a— Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Wow. So it's like, oh, I mean, that kind of— okay, so it's like when the most outspoken anti-gay politician gets caught tapping his foot under the stall in the airport. Speaker C: Completely. Speaker B: Most racist guy on the block's got a black dog, stuff like that, right? Speaker A: Wow. Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. And, and we kind of see that in the, like, pictures of the paintings in Epstein's house. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: What did he— what did he have? Was he— I haven't actually looked into this.

I'm more into his wardrobe. I haven't made it to his art collection yet. Speaker C: There's this really incredible painting of George Bush, like, throwing paper planes into two Jenga towers, and the Jenga towers are like, collapsed. It's really good. And there's one of Bill Clinton in like, uh, giving 9/11, like a dress. He's like lounged. Yeah, it is giving 9/11. Speaker B: Yeah, the Bill Clinton one is a classic where he's like— it's like very like Diva Designing Women, like Southern Belle. Yeah, but it's Bill Clinton. Speaker A: But, but is he— is he buying that?

This is like— are we familiar with the artist? Speaker B: I think he's commissioning these pieces. Speaker A: But, but is he— is he buying that? This is like— are we familiar with the artist? Speaker B: I think he's commissioning these pieces. Speaker C: I think so too. Speaker A: They do feel specific. Yeah, yeah, examples do. Okay, so he's commissioning them. Speaker B: We probably have no idea who painted those. I think if I painted those, I would not sign that work. Speaker A: Do you think though, when Bill comes over for dinner and a little, you know, extracurricular, is he like, check this out, get a load of this?

Or is Bill like, goddamn it, Jeff, this isn't funny, you're a dog. Yeah, like, I wonder. I think they— I think everybody must have liked it. Speaker C: Yeah, I, I think it's probably like, when it was private in the home, it was really cool, but now that it's out, it's not. Speaker B: Like, like many redacted files from, from government. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker C: Exactly. Speaker B: At one point, it was a lot more awesome before the government had control of it. Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. Speaker B: All my guns, all my coke when I had it, and it was just having it with my friends.

It was sick. Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker A: I didn't even think about the— I didn't even think about sort of— I mean, obviously, you know, George Bush is a well-loved painter now, but I'm trying— I haven't thought about sort of the problematic, like, like Bernie Madoff, for example. We saw all of his, like, Belgian shoe collection. But I never saw, like, did he have an Alice Neel above his toilet that we're not familiar with? Like, what was his taste? That's what I mean, you know. What was it? Speaker C: I don't think so.

Speaker A: Okay, okay. Because I, I do think— so would you, when you see your stuff in situ after purchase, are you usually like, well, we could change that chair out? Are you just happy to see it kind of live? Speaker C: I don't think so. Speaker A: Okay, okay. Because I, I do think— so would you, when you see your stuff in situ after purchase, are you usually like, well, we could change that chair out? Are you just happy to see it kind of live? Speaker C: No, I'm horrified.

I mean, I'm like, I'm horrified by the paintings Anyway, but like to see them framed and then on this like gallery wall, it's horrible. Speaker A: Okay, so you're saying you hate your own work, which is a common problem with anybody who makes anything. Yeah, so you hate yourself, and then when you see it in like an Oil Baron— Speaker B: to be fair, the work is quite bad. Speaker C: Thank you, thank you. Speaker A: So when you look at the— and then when you see the, the picture from the Oil Baron's wife at their third house, you're I, I, I would prefer it not to be next to that, you know?

Yeah. Or whatever. Okay. Speaker B: Are there— have there been any buyers of your art that you actually like? Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And like, I, I just recently saw one in person and it was just like leaning on a desk and they were really apologetic. They're like, we're so sorry, like, we're gonna get it hung, we're gonna get it framed. But I, I liked that the best. I was like, please don't just— Speaker B: cool. Speaker A: You're like Britney Spears, you don't have to hide it in your dancing video, it's fine.

I was— I saw it leaning against the desk, it's all good. Speaker C: Exactly. Precisely. Speaker A: The check cleared. Speaker B: Yeah, that's chic. A little lean is nice. I like that. Speaker A: I like a lean too. Speaker B: Confident placement. Speaker A: I feel like I think there's a— do you, do you pay attention to the secondary market? I know some, some artists are Hawkeye when it comes to that. Speaker C: Exactly. Precisely. Speaker A: The check cleared. Speaker B: Yeah, that's chic. A little lean is nice.

I like that. Speaker A: I like a lean too. Speaker B: Confident placement. Speaker A: I feel like I think there's a— do you, do you pay attention to the secondary market? I know some, some artists are Hawkeye when it comes to that. Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I think it's kind of impossible not to be Hawkeye. That feels similar to saying like, I don't read the comments. Like, you know, we all read the comments to some extent. Yeah, I try not to and I love not to, but I do.

I'm, yeah, I'm watching. Speaker A: Because you have, now my question is, do you have people, because I know Jason and I do, um, that like to share this information that you might be trying to avoid with you directly so that you then can't avoid it? Speaker C: It's horrible. It's like, it's friendships are ruined and like, it's every call I'm like, I can't pick it up because it's just going to ruin my day because it might, they might have some bad news for me. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, that's, I, I think it's, it's really funny that people are a lot that people think that you want to know this stuff, even if you maybe explicitly told them that you would like to avoid that stuff if you, if you could.

Speaker C: And when, when you say you explicitly don't want to know, they'll still call you and then be like, oh, and did you see— oh, never mind. And you're like, I— Speaker A: it's too late. Speaker C: You can't help it. Yeah, you can't help but slip it. It's like, you have to tell me now. Speaker A: I guess I'm— I don't know, I'm part of the problem probably on both sides, you know. I'm probably— yeah, I'm on both sides. Speaker B: Yeah, I'm, I'm that way. It always angers me when people try to make like a celebrity death death about them.

But also when, when a person of note dies, I'm the first to put that little link in the little TMZ in the group chat. Speaker B: Yeah, I'm, I'm that way. It always angers me when people try to make like a celebrity death death about them. But also when, when a person of note dies, I'm the first to put that little link in the little TMZ in the group chat. Speaker C: You know, they meant so much to me. They changed my life. Speaker B: I don't do it publicly, but I'm, I'm death watching.

You know what I mean? Speaker A: I'm always paying attention. Now that you're saying that, Jason, you are a death watcher. And I don't— you're not a dark guy like that. Speaker B: You just— who dying today? Speaker A: You put your, you put your bifocals on, look for the deaths. I just didn't I, I love celebrity— obviously I love celebrity gossip, but it's— there's too many sources now. Like, because when I got started in the game, it was like Crazy Days and Nights, Anonymous, you know, Blogspot, and Oh No They Didn't, like, like user-generated.

Now it's sort of like a, you know, when we got PopCrave and TMZ, nothing feels real, you know what I mean? Speaker C: Totally. And Du Moi. Speaker B: Chris, they, they say build, build the things don't exist that you want. So I think that you are, you know, you're ready to go to be the editor of the gossip rag for the rest of us. Speaker A: That's right. We're going to turn— Speaker B: yeah, make it cute. Speaker A: They're looking to replace somebody over at GQ UK. So maybe I could step in and just make it more of a gossip.

Speaker C: There you go. No, no, no. Speaker B: There has to be a new vertical. Speaker A: We have to start a new vertical. Okay. Speaker B: I'll be in charge of experiential, of course. And you can be in charge of Hailey Bieber's lunches. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: I think what it is though really is that it's moved into, um, it's, it's an image-based culture now. And when I was younger, it was more like a whisper, like this happened at a nightclub or this happened here. And now it's just like, all right, yeah, this bitch's ribs are showing leaving a restaurant, she's too skinny.

Or like, this guy's drunk as fuck with a woman who's not his wife and we have pictures. So it's, it's not— there's no fun left in it really in the same way. Speaker C: There you go. No, no, no. Speaker B: There has to be a new vertical. Speaker A: We have to start a new vertical. Okay. Speaker B: I'll be in charge of experiential, of course. And you can be in charge of Hailey Bieber's lunches. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: I think what it is though really is that it's moved into, um, it's, it's an image-based culture now.

And when I was younger, it was more like a whisper, like this happened at a nightclub or this happened here. And now it's just like, all right, yeah, this bitch's ribs are showing leaving a restaurant, she's too skinny. Or like, this guy's drunk as fuck with a woman who's not his wife and we have pictures. So it's, it's not— there's no fun left in it really in the same way. Speaker C: But did you guys see that Lily-Rose Depp thing with Dumas? That she was in the club with another chick, but And she said it was like AI.

Speaker A: Oh, did you see that? Speaker C: She was like, this is really fucked up. This video is doctored. Like, I've never— Speaker B: that's like basketball player defense. That's very impressive to try. No, no, no. Speaker A: That's AI, baby. Speaker B: But also because— so she was in the club with somebody who resembled 007 Shake, her life partner, you know, a long-haired stud, a raven-haired stud, you know, got the truies on. Speaker C: Yeah, right. Speaker B: And a chrome belt or whatever. So obviously Lily has a type, but she's saying no, that wasn't a new stud, that was AI.

Speaker A: But they were putting it— they were putting a name to this. This was like a real per— this was a person that you could find. They gave it a name. They said her— Speaker B: gave them a name, Chris. They get— Speaker A: yeah, I said they gave them a name, not it. Speaker A: But they were putting it— they were putting a name to this. This was like a real per— this was a person that you could find. They gave it a name. They said her— Speaker B: gave them a name, Chris.

They get— Speaker A: yeah, I said they gave them a name, not it. Speaker B: I guess if AI generated you, then it could be it. Speaker A: But so you're saying— but you do you think— do you— Speaker B: that's how you trick her. Speaker A: But if you catch her on the pronoun, do you personally think that it was AI generated, or do you believe that Lily-Rose found a new stud? Speaker C: I believe women. Speaker B: Okay, all of them, all the time, Leo. Speaker C: All women, all the time.

Speaker A: Even less— even lesbians though? Even less— Speaker C: even lesbian, especially lesbians. Speaker A: Chris, what is your relationship to the lesbian community? Because I know sometimes there can be some friction between the gay community and the lesbian community. Speaker B: Too close to it. Speaker C: I don't have like active friction. I want to be closer, but that also feels kind of like fabricated and like like it would be going out of my way to go to the cubbyhole. Speaker A: Okay, sure, sure. Speaker B: Who are we fooling?

Speaker A: Yeah, I just feel like, as, as— and maybe it's because I'm a man who's been gaybaiting for my entire adult life, but I've never been invited to a lesbian bar or any sort of lesbian gathering because you're far from being welcome, Chris. I'm not welcome? I don't think you are either. Speaker C: You don't think? Speaker A: I don't think we're welcome. Speaker B: Trotting around at the Eagle, but no, we don't— lesbians don't need you there, Chris, because lesbians don't— Speaker A: there's no lesbians— Speaker C: they know there's no hope of turning me, so what's the Yeah, but you're their bro now.

Is that okay to say? Speaker A: In theory, yes, I am the broski in theory. Speaker B: But also a lesbian doesn't have to turn you if you're attracted to women. All they got to do is catch you slipping. Speaker A: In theory, yes, I am the broski in theory. Speaker B: But also a lesbian doesn't have to turn you if you're attracted to women. All they got to do is catch you slipping. Speaker A: That's also true. Speaker B: I guess that's true because, you know, there's a spectrum. Speaker A: What do you think?

What kind of music are they playing at the cubbyhole? If you could guess soundtrack-wise. Speaker B: Cranberries techno remix. Speaker C: Yeah. I'd say like Muna. Speaker A: Okay, so Moon is the fate. I thought— okay, I thought Muna was— Speaker C: for some reason, is that too on the nose? Speaker A: No, no, no. I think— no, but I'm just saying I thought something about Muna feels like their audience is like younger. I'm not sure what the Cubbyhole audience is. For some reason I was giving 40+. Speaker C: Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker B: There needs to be a new— in like our generation, you know, the Gen X, Gen whatever, Millennial is like like the Indigo Girls is sort of the go-to lesbian trope. So I feel like we need a little bit more of an updated version of that, whoever that may be. Somewhere between Indigo and Muna. Speaker A: Now that you're bringing this up though, I'm a big Indigo Girls guy. One of Athens finest. Speaker C: Yeah, me too. Speaker B: Comes as no surprise, Chris. Speaker A: Underappreciated in many, many ways.

Speaker C: Are you Athens proper? Speaker A: No, I'm from Atlanta. Atlanta, okay. But there's sort of just an understood respect. I mean, I mean, obviously Athens gave us REM beyond Georgia Bulldogs football and B-52s. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker C: Are you Athens proper? Speaker A: No, I'm from Atlanta. Atlanta, okay. But there's sort of just an understood respect. I mean, I mean, obviously Athens gave us REM beyond Georgia Bulldogs football and B-52s. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: Yeah. And B-52s. And I mean, countless other Elephant 6, you know, Neutral Milk Hotel.

Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: Which is, I guess, not cool anymore. I've been following. There's like a thing where now Neutral Milk Hotel is considered like cringe. Speaker C: Oh, wow. Speaker A: Have you seen this, Jason? Speaker B: Are we neutral on Neutral Milk? Like they're saying the lyrics ended up being not aging well. As well? Speaker A: No, I think it's— I think it's just like, I think that that era and like sort of the quote-unquote tweeness of it all is like lame, which is like, okay, it's always been cringe to me.

The— Speaker C: you, you guys are— I'm sorry, you're just late, so like you're catching up. Speaker A: I'm, I'm— Speaker B: what are some other, uh, some other musical acts from that era that you have always known in your heart that are cringe? Speaker C: I can't do like, um Who, like, Postal Service, or like— Speaker B: yeah, okay. Speaker A: But you're younger than us, to be fair. You're, you're like, what, mid-30s, early 30s? Speaker C: 21. I'm 29. Speaker A: You're 29. Okay, you're a lot younger than us.

All right, so you're 29. You're the age group that would hate stuff that you weren't really around for, and that's no offense to you, of course. I will say that Neutral Milk Hotel is both cringe and legendary, and it can exist in those two spaces for me. Speaker C: I mean, but not to pat my own back track, but I was like one of those like online way too early. Okay, so I was like aware while it was happening, but I think I'm, I'm a gay that like only likes female vocalists.

Speaker A: Same, actually. I'm a big— I'm a big— I'm a big female vocalist. If you had to go top 3 female vocalists— Speaker B: so not even a Juju? Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: If you had to go top 3 female vocalists, dead or alive, what are we going with? Speaker C: I'm going, I think, with Stevie Nicks. Speaker A: Okay, that's fair, that's fair. Speaker C: I love that cigarette voice. Speaker A: Same, same. Speaker B: Ultimate diva. Speaker C: Whitney. Speaker B: Yes. Speaker A: Okay, yeah, we're with you.

Speaker C: But I'm really like frustrated by like when there's like gay guy music night, they're obsessed with— and this kind of goes back, back to like, um, auction and stuff— like I don't like people who like are into metrics and like we'll be watching like a video of female vocalist and like, ooh, that's pitchy. And it's like, I don't like— I don't care about— I want to hear like— Speaker B: Right. You're, you're, you're an emotion feelings person, not like a data-driven— Speaker C: Precisely. Precisely. Speaker B: I think that's the way it should be.

You're an artist. Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's— I understand what you mean. I think the same. I mean, I think that's where we've gotten in the world though, is that everybody thinks they know better. Speaker B: We've talked about this same phenomenon a lot with, with film criticism. How, um, you know, it's no longer, this is my favorite movie, this is whatever. It's like, this is the best movie, and I'm judging that on box office scores. And, you know, so like, nobody— like, everyone is afraid to have their own opinion or don't have the brain power to have their own opinion.

Speaker B: We've talked about this same phenomenon a lot with, with film criticism. How, um, you know, it's no longer, this is my favorite movie, this is whatever. It's like, this is the best movie, and I'm judging that on box office scores. And, you know, so like, nobody— like, everyone is afraid to have their own opinion or don't have the brain power to have their own opinion. Speaker C: Precise. Speaker B: So it's just whatever is the best is what is the best, and we're not— there's no longer like subjective, right, right, right.

Speaker C: I mean, it belongs like like film belongs now to, I think, like autistic straight men, and it's all about like the tracking shot and like— Speaker B: and we're not giving it back, right? Speaker C: I think you take it, take it. Speaker B: Yeah, you can take this Malaya bucket from my cold dead hands, bitch. Speaker A: So you're saying that— you're saying these autistic straight men are, are talking about, you know, what lenses, you know, they're using and the tracking shot and the It's all about form and not content, and I'm all content.

I, I, okay, I think you make a good point there. I think you make a good point. Speaker B: I mean, let the straights figure that out for you. Speaker A: I think getting into technical stuff is— I think some people's brains are wired that way, but I think if you lead with that, it can be a turn-off to people who actually have good taste. Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think it's so antithetical to art. Like, I mean, especially painting, like oftentimes, like, technically the worst it is, the better the painting is.

And so I think that's where I'm coming from. But I think it applies to music too. It's like some of that, like, really shitty, like, grime stuff early, like, that's, I think, the best. Like, those vocals are— Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think it's so antithetical to art. Like, I mean, especially painting, like oftentimes, like, technically the worst it is, the better the painting is. And so I think that's where I'm coming from. But I think it applies to music too. It's like some of that, like, really shitty, like, grime stuff early, like, that's, I think, the best.

Like, those vocals are— Speaker B: did you say grime or Grimes? Speaker C: Uh, Grimes. Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, early Grimes, some, some magical shit. Speaker A: You guys can hold— you guys can hold that one. Speaker C: Y'all can have that. What you want? I'll put you onto that early stuff. Speaker A: I was around for that, and I tell you what, I put my sunglasses on and just kept my head down and kept walking. Speaker B: I'll still DJ that in the club. Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's— and it just— it goes. Speaker A: I'm telling you, I'm telling you guys for real, I don't know if I could— there's a Grimes song that's so big that I would know it, but otherwise, I assume— Speaker B: otherwise, Genesis or Oblivion is probably one of those two that you're thinking, Chris, because I've never actively pressed play on Grimes. Speaker A: And that's not because I don't want to, it was because I just never I never even considered it, really. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: Do you fuck with current contemporary AI techno futurist Grimes?

I want to say no, but like, I think you lowkey are fucking with it. Speaker C: Like, up till her latest release, I've been into it. Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker A: I get that. Speaker C: Yeah, I think— I mean, she's, she's a comedian. I think— I don't know if she knows that, but like, I consume it for the jokes. Speaker A: Sure. Speaker B: Oh, okay. Speaker A: Is she, is she financially sound because of her child with Elon, or does her music continue to throw off cash?

Speaker C: Like, up till her latest release, I've been into it. Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker A: I get that. Speaker C: Yeah, I think— I mean, she's, she's a comedian. I think— I don't know if she knows that, but like, I consume it for the jokes. Speaker A: Sure. Speaker B: Oh, okay. Speaker A: Is she, is she financially sound because of her child with Elon, or does her music continue to throw off cash? Speaker C: I think about that all the time. I mean, you, I don't, it doesn't seem it when she's tweeting like, hey, please pay the child support, you know, but that does, that does seem like a red flag.

Speaker B: I have a feeling, I know that she's like in the San Francisco, like she's, she's at the little fireside chats with the, the teals and whatever. I think she's, how does she, how does she look? I think she's just fine. Speaker A: I don't know about that either, because you, Jason, you kind of thought she was hot, low-key. Be honest. Speaker B: There's times in my life where I would tap, but I think now she's a little more like, I'm always wearing like a duster and carrying a sword around, and I have like a new tattoo of like— Speaker A: she does, she is giving on my fucking eye Legends of Zelda a little bit.

Speaker C: No, for sure. And you're not into that, Chris? Speaker A: I find everything about her is just ugly to me. Like, the, the aesthetic is ugly, and I know that was the point, and that's what appealed because it was new at the time, or like new to a wide group of people. Speaker B: I feel like every week there's just like, oh, I sewed on a new nipple, I bleached my eyelids. I did, you know, there's always just some like, is it mutilation or is it, you know, I'm too trad for that shit.

Speaker A: Like I can't, like I believe that she's a real talent, but Chris would rather have Sydney Sweeney than Grimes. Speaker B: I feel like every week there's just like, oh, I sewed on a new nipple, I bleached my eyelids. I did, you know, there's always just some like, is it mutilation or is it, you know, I'm too trad for that shit. Speaker A: Like I can't, like I believe that she's a real talent, but Chris would rather have Sydney Sweeney than Grimes. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker A: I hate to be, I hate to say it, but it's not untrue.

I mean, I think, I think it's a real American woman. Grimes. If I had to pick Grimes or MIA, A. I'm going A. even though they feel like they're birthed from the same— totally, they feel like the same mother, if you will. Speaker C: Yeah, but they're, they're both— I mean, they're both great comedians. And yeah, A. is great. Speaker A: A. gave us a generational smash. I would say there's 2 or 3 amazing songs, but I would say she gave us a lifelong sort of Seven Nation Army level song that will be played for the rest of 100%.

Yeah, I don't know if Grimes— I don't know if Grimes— Speaker B: yeah, there was a A. performed at the Super Bowl. Super Bowl like 10 years ago or something like that. Grimes is never gonna play at the Super Bowl. Yeah, imagine she— I didn't— Speaker A: who'd she, who'd she come out with? Speaker C: Madonna. Speaker B: I think it was Madonna. Speaker C: Yeah, Madonna. Speaker B: Yeah. And she famously flipped off the camera, which was punk as fuck. Speaker A: Yeah, she's so— Speaker C: it was really cool.

Speaker A: And that was before, and that was before 5G got a hold of her too. So she did that at kind of— Speaker B: yeah, that was 3G, I think, at the time. Speaker A: That was— Speaker B: yeah, a lot of— yeah, a lot of people talking about 5G. Don't sleep on 3G. It was very damaging. Speaker C: Did you see her saying like too about Rosalía. She's like, my culture is not your costume. What is— Speaker B: yeah, that was 3G, I think, at the time. Speaker A: That was— Speaker B: yeah, a lot of— yeah, a lot of people talking about 5G.

Don't sleep on 3G. It was very damaging. Speaker C: Did you see her saying like too about Rosalía. She's like, my culture is not your costume. What is— Speaker B: what is she referring to? Speaker C: Rosalía did a cover of Vogue and it was like, you know, like Madonna's Vogue. No, yeah, exactly. No, the, the magazine. Speaker B: Oh God, God. Okay. Speaker C: And it's like Catholic. Yeah, inspired. And, uh, MIA has been on that Jesus shit for a few years now. Speaker B: Right, right, right. Speaker A: Hey, you've been on your Jesus shit my whole life.

Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: And take that, hold the L This is a good question to ask you actually, because I think this is something that's really like this. So this new, the new Supreme collection came out yesterday. Speaker C: Okay. Speaker A: And there were several items. Speaker B: Glad we had Leo on the pod for this drop. Speaker C: I'm thrilled to be talking about Supreme. Speaker A: Just, just wait, it'll get there. So the Supreme collection came out and there's like a, you know, there's like a Spider-Man Vanson racing jacket.

Speaker C: Okay. Speaker A: And some guy is like, you ripped me off, you know. And then there's this other thing, somebody's like, this is my small brand, you ripped me off. And then people go back and they're be like, actually, bro, here's a picture of a NASCAR driver or F1 driver in the '70s where— whatever, you know what I mean? So it's always disproved. Speaker B: I put a Scream mask on a beanie first. Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Speaker B: I invented Scream. Speaker A: They're literally fighting for the bottom.

But I, I, I just— I guess what I'm saying is that there's a real, uh, culture now of everyone thinking that they were first and that everything they do is getting stolen by someone else. Speaker B: I put a Scream mask on a beanie first. Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Speaker B: I invented Scream. Speaker A: They're literally fighting for the bottom. But I, I, I just— I guess what I'm saying is that there's a real, uh, culture now of everyone thinking that they were first and that everything they do is getting stolen by someone else.

Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: And I feel like as an artist, you might be, uh, privy to that in both ways. Based on what you do. Speaker C: For sure. Yeah, I mean, it like, that drives me insane. I think people have gotten way too like, it's mine, like I did this, it's mine. My philosophy is like, if someone paints your painting better than you, that's on you. Like, it's theirs. Try again. Yeah, totally. Speaker A: Try again. Speaker B: I like that. Speaker A: Give it another shot. Why don't you go back in the studio and come back and let me know how it goes?

Speaker C: Completely. But like, there's— that's That's like such a culture in the art world. There's an Instagram that will like put up paintings of like the same painting next to each other, and then in the comments it's like people are rooting for whoever their friends root for. Speaker B: And they're like, I like the Chloe Wise one more. Speaker C: Exactly. Speaker B: Some people are like, I like Leo's more. No, I see it all the time with like someone will like, like a, you know, like a huge music video will come out, you know, like fucking Blackpink or something like that.

And then some random artist who their video has 700 plays. And they'll do screengrabs like, right, she was on a motorcycle and I was on a— she has blue hair and I had blue hair in this one. And I just think it's fucked up that they would do this. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: And I think just it's great. Speaker C: I am a firm believer that the cream rises to the top. And, um, like, just because the Blackpink video or whatever got success now doesn't mean that the one with 700 views won't pop up in 30 years and be like massive.

Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: And I think just it's great. Speaker C: I am a firm believer that the cream rises to the top. And, um, like, just because the Blackpink video or whatever got success now doesn't mean that the one with 700 views won't pop up in 30 years and be like massive. Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker A: I also think that everything is— I mean, at this point, I just— I'm tough. I think it's tough to find anything that's like truly original, especially in like that kind of stuff.

Like in like a real pop culture level, the same— our peers are the ones looking at the movies and the old videos and the old magazine, you know what I mean? It's all coming from— and I would like that. I would rather a picture look like Bruce Weber than you try to do something else. Speaker C: Totally. Speaker A: Because it's going to be bad. Speaker C: I agree. Speaker A: Like, I don't— I don't— like, I'm good. Like, just try to do your best Richard Avedon, it will be better.

Speaker C: Totally. Speaker A: Like, I don't need— yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know. I just think there's some stuff where it's like, how can we improve on the form? Speaker C: Yes. Speaker A: Like, in a way, I feel like there's a pressure to like reinvent something. It's like, dude, like, I don't know how much more there is to do. I really don't. Speaker B: I guess I see a parallel in the food and the chef space. If you're just like, oh, I did the very best burger, then you know what?

You're not going to feel like you're personally getting credit and accolades and honor compared to when I have invented this new style of painting or artwork or food or whatever. That I can put my name on and have value to it. It used to just be good enough to be, I'm a good artist, right? Now you have to be, I broke out onto the scene inventing a whole new medium discipline, you know? Speaker C: Right, right, right. Speaker B: Otherwise it's not enough for them. Speaker C: Right, right, right. Speaker B: Otherwise it's not enough for them.

Speaker C: Totally. Well, in art historically, like everyone was doing their rendition of like Ophelia or something, and now it's like, you painted that too? That's mine. I did it first and it's just corny. Speaker B: I stole that first. Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Speaker A: But no, no. Speaker B: Okay, well, Um, do you think that art can just look good or cool, or do you think it has to have a deep meaning behind it to be worthwhile? Speaker C: Um, great question. Speaker A: I— every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb.

I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine, you know, drink more water. Speaker B: He knows how to charge my copay. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker B: That's about it. Speaker A: As if I could drink more water, doctor. Doctor. I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and make it better. But Superpower is doing something different. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak.

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Head over to com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about Superpower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone Sent Ya, and that'll just support us. Thanks. Speaker A: Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at The Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the Nexgrill 4-burner gas grill on special buy for only $199, and entertain all season with the Hampton Bay Westgrove 7-piece outdoor dining set for only $499.

This Memorial Day, get low prices guaranteed at The Home Depot. While supplies last. Pricing valid May 14th through May 27th. US only. Exclusions apply. See com/pricematch for details. Speaker C: I don't know if I've seen a painting that was like technically good that didn't have something big behind it. Speaker A: I see what you're saying. You like sort of need one for the other. Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think what also meaning is in the eye of the beholder a little bit, you know what I mean?

Speaker B: Of course. Speaker A: Like you can tell me whatever it means to you and that doesn't necessarily matter to me. Speaker B: This one's about the Cuban Missile Crisis. I didn't pick that up. Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Like I, I think, I think that there's some, yeah, I mean the technical, but what you're doing is pretty technical. I have to say. I mean, it's, it's pretty like serious as far as like the, uh, time put in. Speaker B: This one's about the Cuban Missile Crisis. I didn't pick that up.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Like I, I think, I think that there's some, yeah, I mean the technical, but what you're doing is pretty technical. I have to say. I mean, it's, it's pretty like serious as far as like the, uh, time put in. Speaker C: Definitely. It's labor. Um, but I think I believe less in like meaning than I do like aura. And like, I really believe even like, like with a Woody Allen movie, like whether he likes it or not, like the pedophilia is gonna like leak out through the editing or something, do you know what I mean?

Speaker A: You're gonna find it. Speaker C: Yeah. And so I don't think that you like go after a painting like saying this is the what the meaning is going to be, but like something happens in in the process of transfer that like the aura— Speaker B: so the cream rises to the top and the, the sludge and the sediment always slips down to the bottom. You can't control— Speaker C: that's what I think. Speaker A: Yeah, that's— I, I think you might be right on that. I think you can feel— I mean, it's, it's when people say like you're pure of heart, it's a similar kind of idea.

Speaker C: Totally. The only person that I've like been stumped by is— well, and the verdict is still out, but the only person I've been stumped by is Michael Jackson. Speaker A: We're going through it right now. Speaker B: I feel more— say more. Speaker A: He's been forgiven most circles that I've seen. Speaker C: Well, and one of those circles is me. Speaker B: But, um, so what do you— what are you grappling with, with, with MJ and his art? Speaker C: I think typically— well, and that's why I say the verdict is out.

We don't know if he did it or not. But like, if they did it, of course the work usually suffers for it. And like, let's say Michael Jackson did do it. The work is still just the best of all time. Speaker B: But, um, so what do you— what are you grappling with, with, with MJ and his art? Speaker C: I think typically— well, and that's why I say the verdict is out. We don't know if he did it or not. But like, if they did it, of course the work usually suffers for it.

And like, let's say Michael Jackson did do it. The work is still just the best of all time. Speaker B: Mm-hmm. Speaker A: I see. You're saying there's, there's exceptions to every rule. Speaker C: One, and it's Michael Jackson. Speaker B: Yeah, Picasso was a cheater, right? Speaker A: Oh, legendary. Speaker C: And it shows, it shows, it shows in his legendary stickman. Speaker A: Honestly, legendary stickman. Before the word was even invented, he was the cheating through. But I think that Michael— it's so funny because I don't think about Michael Jackson at all.

Speaker C: Really? Speaker A: Like, I don't at all. I don't feel like I hear his music. I don't. Speaker C: And if I do, elevator music. Speaker A: Yeah, it's kind of like, I don't— it's so part of— Speaker B: it's like the moon, it's always there but I never think about it. Yeah, it's like part— Speaker A: it's like the fabric. Like Jason, you wouldn't play Michael Jackson when you DJ, but that's not because— right, it just wouldn't even— you wouldn't even think about it. Speaker B: Yeah, it was just— I, I guess, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's like, you know, singing Happy Birthday or Mickey Mouse or anything.

It's just like, it's just a part, it's always permanently sewn into the fabric of our life and culture. Speaker A: Yeah, it makes it somehow— yeah, and maybe this is wrong, you don't think about breathing. It feels less special to me because of that, which is society's fault, not his, if that, if that, you know. And right, but also That's also a testament to how good it is. So it's like a little— it's a little confusing, I think. Speaker C: Yeah, but if you like really hold on to, um, artistry and connoisseurship like me, every time a Michael Jackson song comes on, you think it just doesn't get better.

Speaker C: Yeah, but if you like really hold on to, um, artistry and connoisseurship like me, every time a Michael Jackson song comes on, you think it just doesn't get better. Speaker A: That's how I feel about several white men that have been canceled, uh, for different offenses about their music that I listen to privately in my AirPods. Speaker B: But also, you know, speaking of canceled white men, MJ had that studio full of of just a random bass player that looks like your substitute history teacher in high school and, you know, a synth wizard, and they're laying down the greatest, most perfect music of all time.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker B: It really is just so crazy. Speaker A: Yeah. It's really, it's really hard to, it's really hard to think about it because I would never listen to music like that, but like I would never go on to Apple Music and type in Michael Jackson and play a Michael Jackson song. What about It just doesn't even occur to me. Speaker B: This is Michael Jackson. Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker C: What about Janet? Are you— Speaker A: Oh, I'm, I'm more of a Janet head actually.

I was a real Janet, Whitney, Mariah guy. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: Yeah. During that era. I mean, that was also the most popular music that maybe, I mean, I don't think, I mean, I guess obviously like all these fucking, you know, K-pop, it's, it's different because the, we don't have a monoculture anymore. Speaker C: Sure. Speaker A: But like when Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston and Janet Jackson were popular, that was like, like that was it, right? Speaker C: Right. Well, but that's kind of what I'm talking about with the cream rising to the top is like Janet was Janet, kind of went away, and then now TikTok is back and she's like, oh, is she back?

Speaker A: Is she having a TikTok resurgence? Speaker C: Huge. Yeah. Speaker A: What song is it called? Speaker C: Right. Well, but that's kind of what I'm talking about with the cream rising to the top is like Janet was Janet, kind of went away, and then now TikTok is back and she's like, oh, is she back? Speaker A: Is she having a TikTok resurgence? Speaker C: Huge. Yeah. Speaker A: What song is it called? Speaker C: So it's Someone to Call My Lover or something. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker C: Oh, okay.

Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Speaker B: If I Was Your Girl. Speaker C: If I Was Your Girl. Speaker A: The things I do to you. Speaker B: Someone to call your lover. Speaker C: If you're— Speaker B: are you a DJ, Liam? You in the club? Speaker C: I'm not a DJ, but I heard, I heard yours, I think, on the pod. Speaker B: Oh, really? Speaker A: Oh, did you play at the end of an episode, Jason? Speaker C: I think so. Speaker B: Yeah, but it was like a month or two ago, so Leo's been listening.

Speaker A: He's been doing his homework. He's been doing his homework. Speaker C: I didn't know that. Speaker A: I keep, uh, I think fabulous. I, I think that those, I, I think that era of like women singers is probably will go unmatched. I, I don't think that'll ever, like, I don't think we, I don't think we can look at, I don't, I just don't feel like Taylor Swift And you don't think K-pop Demon Hunters is going to do it? Yeah, I just don't think that, like, I just don't think it's there.

I don't, I don't know if it'll ever be the same, but that's maybe not fair to compare. Speaker C: No, I mean, I completely agree with you, but that is kind of what I'm talking about, about like technicalities and stuff. Like, I don't think that that matters so much anymore, and I'm not mad about— like, Charli XCX can't sing, but like, that's not the point. And like, I'm okay with that. Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the point— I think that all the time. I think like, oh, this is, this is this is— the reason this is popular is not because of even what it is.

Speaker B: I'm not— I'm not listening to Pink Pantheress because she's doing, uh, an A minor 7th sharp run up to the, you know, 9/16 or whatever. It's just cute music that I like. Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the point— I think that all the time. I think like, oh, this is, this is this is— the reason this is popular is not because of even what it is. Speaker B: I'm not— I'm not listening to Pink Pantheress because she's doing, uh, an A minor 7th sharp run up to the, you know, 9/16 or whatever.

It's just cute music that I like. Speaker C: Precisely. Speaker A: It's just good. And I think there's two— I think that, that I don't get caught up in the technicality stuff. I think we were sort of blessed at that time that all those people were— just happened to be that good. Speaker C: Totally. Speaker A: You know, it was like sort of like, oh, you could just really do this. Like, I mean, that, you know, I don't even think I knew what it meant at that point. Speaker B: But you're just like, oh, that's when singing was singing.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was back when singing was singing. I mean, it was before there was so much assistance available. Speaker C: Yeah, but kids aren't raised like the Jacksons anymore too, which is a good thing. Speaker B: There's pros and cons. Less excellence is being created. Speaker A: There's still abusive parents out there. We just saw these ice skaters. Speaker C: We saw this ice skater that she's like, she's the— well, her and Luigi Mangione are competing for the best artists of our time. Speaker A: Okay, so you're a Luigi apologist because he's hot or because you believe in his cause?

Speaker C: The work. It's the work. The work's amazing. Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Speaker B: And Luigi's work is murder. Speaker A: I would love to get specific about what the work is alleged. Speaker B: Do you think he's innocent like Michael? Speaker C: It depends on what you're referring to when you say innocent. It's what I was talking about earlier and like the meaning or what you were saying. Speaker B: You think Luigi shot a CEO in cold blood with a gun? Speaker C: If he did do that, he's the greatest artist of our time.

Speaker B: Mm, okay. Well, it's giving Joker 2. Speaker B: You think Luigi shot a CEO in cold blood with a gun? Speaker C: If he did do that, he's the greatest artist of our time. Speaker B: Mm, okay. Well, it's giving Joker 2. Speaker A: I'm not a Luigi. I don't really understand the fascination with him. Speaker B: He's not Chris's type, first and foremost. Speaker C: Physically, physically. Speaker A: I mean, he's kind of everybody's type. I think he's kind of everybody's type is why it's working for him, you know.

Speaker B: Luigi needs another kill because Heated Rivalry is eating his lunch right now, you know. Speaker A: Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is, I guess what I'm saying is it's only because of his looks. I don't think people even remember what he did at this point. Speaker C: Oh, interesting. I mean, people— Speaker A: it's giving, it's giving hot felon. Speaker B: So we should just let him out of jail. I don't even remember why you're in here. Speaker A: Do you remember the hot felon that went on to marry the Topshop heiress?

Yeah, Jeremy Meeks. Speaker B: Yeah, kind of look like a pit bull. Speaker A: That guy was so hot that we like his— but he had some bullshit charges, like he didn't kill anyone, it was fine. So he was able to rise to the top of the Daily Mail, you know, gossip every day and make a life for himself. But I don't know if Luigi's gonna skate on these charges, man. Speaker C: No, I don't think so either. But I will say, I mean, I agree with you, the— with the masses, but like, if I didn't know at all what Luigi looked like, I'd still be saying what I'm saying.

Speaker A: I think you're a liar. Speaker C: Um, power to the people. Speaker A: Power to the people. Unless he could lose 20, then it's— I don't know, whatever. We'll see what happens. But yeah, I think Luigi is going to— I think Luigi is going to unfortunately do some hard time, and it's gonna be— Speaker A: I think you're a liar. Speaker C: Um, power to the people. Speaker A: Power to the people. Unless he could lose 20, then it's— I don't know, whatever. We'll see what happens. But yeah, I think Luigi is going to— I think Luigi is going to unfortunately do some hard time, and it's gonna be— Speaker C: I think so too.

Speaker A: It's gonna be tough for the community. When I say community, I mean gays, because that's the only people really propping him up. Speaker B: No, there's a lot of women who are horny for him. I would say maybe more so than gay. Speaker A: I know that, but they don't— they seem less vocal. Speaker B: Women fuck with a criminal heavier than, than a man does, I think. Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's a good point. Speaker B: Like, you, like, you don't get turned on by crime, do you, Leo?

Speaker C: I don't think I'd say turned on. I'm like into it, but no, not turned on. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: All right. I'm in the same boat as you. Speaker C: But I think, like, what Luigi did is similar to Sinead going on SNL and saying, fight the real enemy, which is one of the best pieces of all time. Speaker A: I mean, that is— Speaker B: I agree. I agree. Speaker A: That is legendary. I agree with that. Speaker B: I feel like Sinead's going up there with Whitney and— Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: And everyone else. Speaker A: Sinead's an all-timer. But I think the difference is there, no one died. Speaker B: Sinead killed a piece of paper. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: She killed a guy. Speaker A: She did kill a piece of 8.5 by 11. Speaker C: I think you're— I think you're forgetting something. Think about the people who died at the hands of that CEO. No, of course. Speaker B: No, I mean, I, I'm not saying— I'm not saying one is right or wrong or good or bad.

Speaker A: I'm just saying, you know, in terms of crimes, yeah, one, one is a little— yeah, I feel like Luigi— I also think these— it's sort of like, how long is this going to go on for before they throw the book at him? Because I feel like it's just like he hasn't even gone to trial. I, I don't— I feel like it's just— it's been years. It feels like, right? Speaker B: No, I mean, I, I'm not saying— I'm not saying one is right or wrong or good or bad.

Speaker A: I'm just saying, you know, in terms of crimes, yeah, one, one is a little— yeah, I feel like Luigi— I also think these— it's sort of like, how long is this going to go on for before they throw the book at him? Because I feel like it's just like he hasn't even gone to trial. I, I don't— I feel like it's just— it's been years. It feels like, right? Speaker C: But yeah, but maybe that's because, you know, time just moves and it's only been 6 months. Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I, I feel like it's been a couple years, but it feels like 2 weeks tomorrow.

Yeah, it feels exciting. Speaker B: Life comes at you slow. Speaker A: You should have taken care of— so how did you, how did you get to LA, if you don't mind me asking? Because I feel like I've been stuck in Charleston for 3 days. Speaker C: I know, and it's a— Speaker A: Stevie told me that you made it out in a weird— you made it out like the last flight out, like running. Speaker B: For listeners at home, you're not talking about permanently moving, just visiting LA. Speaker A: I'm talking about Indiana Dawn style, like you're running on the, on the tarmac and jump on to the Spirit flight.

Speaker B: Oh, truly, we're on the last chopper out of— Speaker C: yeah, yeah, yeah, literally. Have you guys ever been on a plane when they do that, like it's like a car wash where they spray the ice off the wings? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that happened for the first time. It was crazy. The runway is like, you can't see 2 feet in front of you, but I made it somehow. I mean, I was just refreshing the like flight page obsessively for 12 hours and found one and made it out.

Speaker A: You're saying you— okay, so you're saying you purchased that flight the day of? Speaker C: Oh yeah, like 3 hours before. Speaker A: Okay, so this show, this— it's opening today. Speaker B: I received an invite for this show weeks ago, so this was on the docket. Speaker A: You're saying you— okay, so you're saying you purchased that flight the day of? Speaker C: Oh yeah, like 3 hours before. Speaker A: Okay, so this show, this— it's opening today. Speaker B: I received an invite for this show weeks ago, so this was on the docket.

Speaker A: What's up with that? Are you a little bit of a— maybe a— you pushing it to the limit as far as last minute? Speaker B: Do you like to edge your travel? Speaker C: No, it's because I was supposed to arrive today, but like it was looking like like bad. The city was going to be shut down for like a week, so I was like, I've got to get out of here before I'm stuck. Speaker B: Okay, you had a flight booked, you switched it up last minute. Smart move, very smart.

Speaker A: That's what I did. I almost did that. I almost spent 2 grand on 2 Spirit flights from Charleston to New York. And I was like, you know what, Charleston's great, I love this, I don't, I don't need to go back that bad. Speaker B: So are you staying at Villa Carlota? Speaker C: No, right now I'm in a hotel called Volume. It's really— it's a funny— Speaker A: I know Volume, I've been put up at Volume before. I know, yeah, I know the program. Speaker B: Is that in Hollywood?

Speaker C: They've got like a honky-tonk on the roof. It's where the Five spot is, Jason. Speaker A: It's like right over there where, um, uh, what's it, what's it called? What, why can't I think of the, the Italian restaurant that was hot for so long? Funky restaurant. Speaker B: Oh, Mother Wolf. Speaker A: It's next to Mother Wolf. Speaker B: Got it, got it, got it. Speaker A: Okay, it's literally next to Mother Wolf. Speaker B: You're right in the zone, right by Popeyes. Speaker A: I lived, I lived at Via Carlotta for 6 months.

Speaker C: No way, when? Speaker A: In, during COVID That was a fun time. Speaker C: Oh, period. How was that, man? Speaker A: It was pretty good. We were talking about it today. Speaker C: We were talking about today. Speaker A: It was like it— I kind of felt— I wrote about it and they gave me a deal, and then I just kept being like, I'm just gonna stay, and they were just kind of cool with it. Okay. The only downside was parking. Not to sound like an LA guy, but there was no parking.

Okay. So that was a little tough. I had to parallel park on— what street is that, Jason? Fountain? Speaker C: Oh, period. How was that, man? Speaker A: It was pretty good. We were talking about it today. Speaker C: We were talking about today. Speaker A: It was like it— I kind of felt— I wrote about it and they gave me a deal, and then I just kept being like, I'm just gonna stay, and they were just kind of cool with it. Okay. The only downside was parking. Not to sound like an LA guy, but there was no parking.

Okay. So that was a little tough. I had to parallel park on— what street is that, Jason? Fountain? Speaker B: Franklin. Speaker A: Franklin. Sorry, Franklin. Speaker B: Notorious tough parking over there. Speaker A: But you could— I could walk down. Speaker C: Yeah, I love it. That Clark and, uh, Lily's and stuff. Speaker A: It was a— Speaker B: it was a— Speaker A: it was a good place to stay, and it had a pool. And I guess now it's been taken over by like Australian crypto guys and shit.

Speaker C: The Villa Carlotta has, like, the residents. Speaker A: But when I stayed there, it was sort of like weird, you know, like weird hot chicks that were sort of like going through it, period. You know what I mean? Oh, like, I, I got divorced during COVID and like, I'm just gonna lay low, sort of have a brand few weeks, but I'm like friends with Paris Hilton. It was a very weird vibe, like very weird. It was, it was, to be fair, it was kind of before the crypto explosion, so it was a different kind of weird.

Speaker C: Well, it sounds like by weird you mean amazing. Amazing. Speaker A: It is kind of— it's a psychedelic place. I mean, I think the prices have gone up considerably. Um, so that attracts a different kind of person. But I had some great times at Villa. I, I just— and the lobby is so nice and so underutilized. Yeah, yeah, very underutilized. But does Bill do this kind of stuff? Like, have you done— most of your shows have been in regular galleries, right? But this is like a different— Speaker C: correct.

Yeah, it's a newer thing. I think like it's— I don't know, it's kind of trying to like shake up the like free— like the big art fair, like Yeah, because like you get so lost in like the big convention center, it just like you can't like differentiate anything. And it just like the— it feels like a big like car lot, like a car sales place. And so it's like an attempt to like differentiate from that, I think. Speaker C: correct. Yeah, it's a newer thing. I think like it's— I don't know, it's kind of trying to like shake up the like free— like the big art fair, like Yeah, because like you get so lost in like the big convention center, it just like you can't like differentiate anything.

And it just like the— it feels like a big like car lot, like a car sales place. And so it's like an attempt to like differentiate from that, I think. Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, the Frieze thing is like fun to go to if you're me, you know, to just check stuff out. But if you have skin— if you have skin in the game, totally, totally. Speaker C: If you're going to see the outfits, it's great and drink some champagne. Speaker A: But like, I don't know, I like, I, I like, I guess I like to go and I like to see everything in one place as a viewer.

Speaker C: It's nice and you're able to like take it in. Speaker A: Yeah, I can kind of, I'm, look, I'm moving through there, don't get me wrong. I'm not fucking sitting down trying to take it in, you know, while I drank my sponsored coffee. Speaker C: Uh-huh. Speaker A: Um, I, I move through it, but I, I just feel like it's fun to see all that stuff in one place kind of, because that's really hard to do. Yeah, and that's the way I look at it. Like, even when I used to go to Art Basel, like, you know, 10 years ago, I would always make the effort to go to the fair because it was like, well, this is kind of crazy that all this stuff is in one place.

Like, it's not the best environment, and it's a bunch of European guys in navy blazers that don't really fit with like running shoes on, right? But it's a lot of stuff in one place that you would have to literally crisscross the globe to see. Yeah, if you wanted to see it all. That's the way I look at it. Speaker B: This is why we freeze, boys. Speaker C: It's a good way to look at it. Speaker A: But I'm not on the business side of it, so it's like— but people do sell at Frieze.

I people. Yeah, it does well, right? Speaker B: This is why we freeze, boys. Speaker C: It's a good way to look at it. Speaker A: But I'm not on the business side of it, so it's like— but people do sell at Frieze. I people. Yeah, it does well, right? Speaker C: Very much so. Yeah, totally. Speaker B: I had a— I was listening to a, a podcast interview with you from a— interview with you from a couple years ago. I had a couple questions just to pull, just some medium, medium fire, not rapid fire.

Speaker C: Okay, go for it. But I, I did say in my email I'm only answering pre-approved questions. Speaker B: Okay. If there's, if there's nothing that— if there's anything that you want me to call out or cut, just do let me know. I didn't get that PDF from your team. I'm sorry. Speaker C: All right. All right. Yeah, I'll, I'll just get final cut, right? Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we'll, we'll send it I'll read it first and you have 12 hours to respond. Speaker B: You have 12 minutes to respond.

Okay. As a melancholy twink, is eating and sleeping a chore to you? Speaker C: God, I can't even process that question. As a melancholy twink, say that last part. Speaker B: Is eating and sleeping a chore to you? Speaker C: Very much so, yeah. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker C: I'm so annoyed to eat. Like, it makes me so angry. Speaker A: Really? Okay, you're saying, okay, but you're saying because it takes time away from your day or because it's just like feels like something you got to do? Speaker C: Both.

Speaker A: It's not enjoyable in any way to you? Speaker C: It takes time away, and I don't— I don't like food enough to like want to do that. Speaker A: You know, I feel like I've been to dinner with you a few times, and I was kind of like, you know, you're watching me pay. Speaker B: Were you just moving your peas around the plate? Speaker A: I wanted to like finish your fries, but we didn't know each other, you know what I mean? It was one of those things.

I was like, I don't think he's going to eat these, but yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, man, I don't— Speaker A: You know, I feel like I've been to dinner with you a few times, and I was kind of like, you know, you're watching me pay. Speaker B: Were you just moving your peas around the plate? Speaker A: I wanted to like finish your fries, but we didn't know each other, you know what I mean? It was one of those things. I was like, I don't think he's going to eat these, but yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, man, I don't— Speaker C: I don't go for it anytime.

Speaker A: I don't want to be bossy, you know. I don't want to feel intrusive. Speaker B: Moving forward, we can kind of nip off of your plate? Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I'll reach over. My routine is kind of like, I don't eat because I don't really get hungry and I'm not motivated by food. I fall asleep and then wake up in the middle of the night and just like inhale anything in the fridge and go back to sleep. And it's— I love it, it's the best. Speaker A: Okay, so you— Speaker B: so you're saying a raccoon-like eating habit?

Speaker A: It's a raccoon style. All right, so if you're— if you're saying— okay, but if you go But you do go to dinner socially and you're happy to do that. Speaker B: Do any foods bring you pleasure or is it all kind of just, it has to happen? Speaker C: Food very much brings me pleasure, but like, I don't see much of a difference between like Wendy's and Nobu. Speaker A: You don't see color. You don't see color between Eleven Madison Park and Wendy's. Speaker B: Okay. Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Okay. You said that there is a corniness to your artwork, which you like. Speaker C: Huh? Speaker B: You like that about it? What is corny about your artwork? Speaker C: I think it's a bit on the nose in terms of Americana and white people and rich people and— Speaker C: Huh? Speaker B: You like that about it? What is corny about your artwork? Speaker C: I think it's a bit on the nose in terms of Americana and white people and rich people and— Speaker B: Okay. Speaker C: Corny in the way that 1960s Hollywood is.

Speaker A: But I see what you mean. I see what you mean. Well, hold on. I can't get over you. So what, what is the— I mean, obviously sleeping's a big part of your story here. I've seen a lot about it. What hours are we keeping? Because that, that is as an adult man, I know you kind of do your thing, but like, right, you have to participate in polite society a little bit, I assume. Speaker C: I mean, you'd be surprised. I don't really have to. I'm probably keeping like 4 or 5

m. to like 11 or noon. Speaker A: Okay, wow. So you're staying up till 4 or 5 and you're waking up at 11 or noon, and then in between that time we have a coffee and paint, basically? Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: Okay. And, and, and is there— I assume the people in your life are used to this and are kind of like, we're only going to get him from, from those times if we need to be in contact with him? Speaker C: Yes. But I'm good at— like, I'm not good at like off-the-cuff hangouts, that's not happening.

But like if we plan a dinner in a week, I will like really— Speaker A: So you're saying if I just— am I— I just happen to be in Bushwick and I buzz you, you don't throw the keys down, you're allergic to sporadic— Speaker C: Yes. But I'm good at— like, I'm not good at like off-the-cuff hangouts, that's not happening. But like if we plan a dinner in a week, I will like really— Speaker A: So you're saying if I just— am I— I just happen to be in Bushwick and I buzz you, you don't throw the keys down, you're allergic to sporadic— Speaker C: it's not happening.

Yeah, my phone's dead and like, okay, but, but I just— Speaker A: I don't— okay, but you're— I don't know, I just find that to be— when's the last time you had a real job or a job of any kind? Speaker C: I've never worked a day in my life. No, I worked at Metro Metrograph, uh, like before COVID You worked at Metrograph as like a, as a ticket taker? Yeah. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: So you, the last job you had was at a cool guy theater that it hasn't been profitable in 10 years.

Speaker B: So it wasn't really, it was, so you were able to draw for most of that shift? Speaker C: Exactly. Speaker A: That's what I was keeping. Exactly. I would be texting. Speaker B: What do you, what do you miss about working at a movie theater as a movie lover? A lot. Speaker C: I mean, I miss like seeing everything. I I miss— it was so fun. It was. But like you said, I mean, that place is like run horribly. Speaker A: And I gotta say something though, I went there the other night for a screening of, of that new HBO show Neighbors.

And okay, they, they were like, you can take one thing, like get a drink and then one piece of candy for, you know, for the movie. Speaker C: Oh yeah. Speaker A: I gotta say, they were offering us king-size candy, and I— that's a very nice— a king-size Kit Kat goes a lot further than a regular size. And I just wanted to point that out. I don't understand the programming, it's a little too avant-garde for me, right? But the candy offerings are right down the middle and the right size. I appreciate that.

Speaker C: Yeah, you're right about that. Speaker A: I appreciate it. But I don't think any— I don't think a place like that could ever make money, even in New York. It's just too over the top. Speaker C: Totally. Yeah. Speaker A: I mean, you talked about— I also saw that— I didn't realize how religious you grew up. Um, what flavor of religion? Speaker C: Evangelical Christian. Speaker A: Okay. Speaker C: The good stuff. Speaker B: This is in Colorado, right? Speaker A: That is the good stuff. Because I grew up Baptist, which is sort of— Speaker C: oh yeah.

Speaker A: More— it's cultural though in the South. It's not that extreme. Speaker C: Yeah, but is it good culture? Speaker A: No, no, it's bad culture. I just mean it's not like at this point— yeah, at this point I don't think it's like, if my son's gay, I'm gonna disown him, in a major Southern city, if that makes sense. Speaker C: That surprises me, but I love to hear that. Speaker A: I mean, I could be wrong, but I just mean— I just mean like, at least like watching my parents, and maybe it's partly due to me exposing them to shit they would definitely have no business being exposed to, as my mom listens to this podcast right now.

Speaker B: Hey, Linda! Speaker C: Shouts out kinda— Speaker A: yeah, everything's a little more mellow. Yeah, I think because the Trump stuff gets so extreme that if you have a brain, you're kind of like, you know what, I'm not— I don't— I'm good. Like, I don't need to go that far. Speaker C: 1,000%. Speaker A: I think that might have like helped things weirdly. Speaker C: For sure. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that's happening with a lot of Christians. But with the evangelicals, it was like they saw Trump and they're like, this is what we've been talking about, this is our guy.

Like, finally, we're— Speaker A: were your parents like knocking on No. So they had like normal lives and jobs. This was just their— this is— they didn't— they weren't like in religion as a career. It was just what they were dedicated to when they were not at work. Speaker A: were your parents like knocking on No. So they had like normal lives and jobs. This was just their— this is— they didn't— they weren't like in religion as a career. It was just what they were dedicated to when they were not at work.

Speaker C: No, my dad works for this organization called Focus on the Family, which is like leading— like, do you know about it? Speaker A: Yes. Speaker B: But it's like a company called like Turning Point or something. Speaker C: Yeah, literally. Exactly, exactly. Speaker B: Doing a lot of important work right now. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker A: So he works for Focus on the Family, which is, is a— is it— is it a nonprofit? Speaker C: I believe so, yeah. Speaker A: And the idea is to basically stop anything that's not a traditional family?

Speaker C: Precisely, yeah. Speaker B: So no gay stuff, no abortions? Speaker C: Yeah, it's mostly now trans people, no abortions. But yeah, no, we don't— they don't fuck with the gays. Speaker A: So what is your relationship with him now? Speaker C: Non-existent. Damn. Okay. Yeah. Speaker A: So he was like— he didn't soften up when it was his his own. Speaker B: No, he decided to not focus on his family. Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah, I will. Ironically, I will go on and like comment on stuff and like, like, I don't know, like not expose him, but like just, just drop my two cents.

Speaker B: And you'll stir the pot a little bit. Speaker A: Your sisters are a big part of the work. Are they? Did they talk to him? Speaker C: Not really. No. Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. Is him and your mom still married? Speaker C: No. Speaker B: Oh, okay. Speaker A: And your mom is team you? Speaker C: Yeah, my mom's cool. My mom's cool as hell. But yeah, we're talking about the— I think it's the Director of Family Formations. Speaker C: Not really. No. Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay.

Is him and your mom still married? Speaker C: No. Speaker B: Oh, okay. Speaker A: And your mom is team you? Speaker C: Yeah, my mom's cool. My mom's cool as hell. But yeah, we're talking about the— I think it's the Director of Family Formations. Speaker A: Hold on, your dad's title, your dad's job title is Director of Family Formations? Speaker C: Yeah, I believe that's it. It's something like that. Speaker A: That's one of the most fucked up titles I've ever heard. Speaker C: But it's, it's like, that's, uh, you know, like fork found in the kitchen.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure, sure. No, no, definitely. I just think when you put like a title on it, it's different than like casual. I don't know, something about it feels— no, it's more strange for sure. Speaker B: Damn, Focus on the Family has 668,000 followers on IG, period. That's impressive. Speaker A: Well, now we got to break a million. I mean, come on. That's— Speaker C: I know. Speaker A: Are they verified, Jason? Speaker B: Um, yeah, they got the blue check. They got the blue check. Speaker A: Okay, at least they're very— at least terrified.

That's okay. So, but do you think he's going to— he's aware of what you're doing? Yeah, because it's obviously, it's like public-facing to some extent. I assume your sisters don't do things that are public-facing, correct? Speaker B: But you're a twin, right? Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I got a twin sister. I've got 4 sisters, and like the 2 younger ones are like— like that generation of women is like down for whatever. Yeah, exactly. It's like you're not, you're not straight, you're not gay. It's like you're nothing and everything. Speaker B: You're simply one of God's children.

Speaker C: Precisely. Speaker B: I'll actually That's the— joking aside, the first, the most recent post on the Focus on the Family Instagram page is a podcast episode screengrab, just what we're doing right now. And it says, there is no such thing as a gay person. Speaker B: You're simply one of God's children. Speaker C: Precisely. Speaker B: I'll actually That's the— joking aside, the first, the most recent post on the Focus on the Family Instagram page is a podcast episode screengrab, just what we're doing right now. And it says, there is no such thing as a gay person.

Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: You are a person. Speaker C: It's— is it him? Is it my dad? Speaker B: I don't think so. It seems to be a woman. Speaker C: Okay. Speaker A: Is he public? Is he public-facing in the organization? Speaker C: Yeah, very. Yeah. Oh, he was like, back in the day, he was like on fun. Like, when, when gay people were like up for debate, like before Obama, he would go on like Dr. Phil and like debate about like— it, it's, it's really funny. Whoa. Speaker A: Oh, okay, so he's on the front lines.

But did you— was there like a conversation, like a breaking point, or was it just kind of like clear, we ain't vibing, so I'm gonna move on? Speaker C: Yeah, like before there was like a clear conversation about like gay, it was like just a constant fight about like Barbie dolls like wearing pink or something. And so like, okay, so that was— it was always present, but like it was not really ever like explicitly like, I'm gay, and then like, we don't accept you for who you are. It was just kind of like— Speaker B: he wasn't burning Addison Rae CDs.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was running him over with the truck. Yeah, it was just like when Whoopi Goldberg was voicing a cartoon, it was like, turn that off. Speaker B: Oh, turn that off for a for a few reasons, actually. Please turn that off. Speaker A: That's, that's such a— Speaker C: why? Speaker C: Yeah, it was running him over with the truck. Yeah, it was just like when Whoopi Goldberg was voicing a cartoon, it was like, turn that off. Speaker B: Oh, turn that off for a for a few reasons, actually.

Please turn that off. Speaker A: That's, that's such a— Speaker C: why? Speaker A: Okay, so how long have him and your mom been divorced or separated or whatever? Speaker C: Separated for pretty much my whole life. Speaker A: Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. So he wasn't like a— he was obviously a presence because he's public-facing, so it's easy to find him, but he wasn't a presence in your day-to-day life? Correct. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker B: I can't wait till you have more followers than him. Speaker A: It's gonna happen.

That's such an interesting— that's such a crazy— so, okay, so nobody talk. So this— you think— do you maybe think he sees the irony in the fact that his job is about families and none of his family talks to him? Or you think maybe that's lost on him? Speaker C: That's a great question. I think about it all the time. But it— like, we see it very much with, like, what's happening with the administration right now, like, just crazy cognitive dissonance. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Speaker C: Um, you know, I mean, it's like the pro-life thing, but they love guns and like, yeah, yeah, want everyone dead.

Speaker B: Yeah, we're mourning with fireworks. We're making something not about me about me. It's focusing on the family, not my family. Speaker C: Precisely. Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's just, it's so— because I, I mean, I knew this part of your story a little bit, but I didn't know that it— I didn't know that he was like a front-facing— yeah, critic. I thought it was, I thought it was more just like a classic, like, oh, my son's gay, hell no. Yeah, yeah, I know it was like a more serious—

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's just, it's so— because I, I mean, I knew this part of your story a little bit, but I didn't know that it— I didn't know that he was like a front-facing— yeah, critic. I thought it was, I thought it was more just like a classic, like, oh, my son's gay, hell no. Yeah, yeah, I know it was like a more serious— Speaker C: it gets dark. Yeah. But I think it's fallen off, like, because like I said, culturally it was, yeah, yeah, debatable. But now, like, there's not really much traction.

Speaker B: Everyone's got gay people in their family. Everyone's got people who have had abortions in their family, you know, right? It's a little closer. Speaker A: I think it's hard. Yeah, I think there— Speaker B: I also think it's unavoidable. Speaker A: I think in most, unless it's pretty extreme circles, it would be considered antiquated to be like anti-gay, right? Speaker C: Right. Speaker A: Like, I think unless, unless you're in like very specific pockets of the country, that's not cool, right? Speaker C: Totally. Speaker A: Which is, I think, at one point— I'm not gonna say it was cool, but it was more of like a widely followed trend.

Speaker B: Yeah, now we got Nicki Minaj, uh, with Donald, you know, right? What are the barbs? All the— she has such a huge gay audience, by the way, Leo. Speaker A: So how did you take that? How did you take that? I know it was hard for you. Speaker C: Yeah, it was really hard for me. I mean, I don't really know even how to talk about it. Like, it is fuck Nicki Minaj, but I was a big, big Barb. Speaker A: Oh yeah. Oh, you were? So you were— okay, so you were actually a Barb.

Speaker B: Do you think you're gonna be able to learn how to trust again? I don't think so. Speaker C: That list that I said earlier of Alyssa Liu and Luigi, Nikki was on that. Wow. Wow. Speaker A: Okay. Nikki was an all-timer for you. I hate to hear that because I think— Speaker B: goodbye to one of your GOATs. Speaker A: Do you think that the— who has stuck with her is the question. Speaker B: Do you think you're gonna be able to learn how to trust again? I don't think so.

Speaker C: That list that I said earlier of Alyssa Liu and Luigi, Nikki was on that. Wow. Wow. Speaker A: Okay. Nikki was an all-timer for you. I hate to hear that because I think— Speaker B: goodbye to one of your GOATs. Speaker A: Do you think that the— who has stuck with her is the question. Speaker B: Only the most toxic Mac counter employees. Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker B: Okay, Leah, if you are in Los Angeles, Your show is up for how long? When? How long can people check it out?

Speaker C: 3 weeks, I think, after tomorrow. So tomorrow's the opening, but after that it's by appointment. But you can make an appointment with Aaron at com. Speaker B: Shout out to Half Gallery. Speaker A: Is it all sold? But is it all sold already? You can be honest with us. Speaker C: I can't comment on that. Speaker B: It's half sold at Half Gallery. Speaker A: All right. Speaker B: That's why we love them over there. No, you have— you do the other half. Speaker A: Thank you for joining us.

It's good to see you. And I'm sure we'll see you hopefully. Speaker B: Are you going to be in the club on Thursday, Leo? Speaker C: Yeah. You guys are doing that Grindr event. Speaker B: Can we list you? Speaker C: Wait, Chris, are you going to be here for that? Speaker A: I was supposed to come tomorrow, but now I'm coming Thursday and everything seems to be calmed down at the airport. So yeah, I'll be there. Speaker C: Period. Yeah, I'll be there. Speaker A: Okay. It'll be fun. We'll hang.

Bring the vape for Jason. All right. Congratulations on the show. I can't wait to see it. And thanks for doing this. Speaker C: Thank you so much. Speaker A: Thanks for having me. Speaker C: Thank you. Speaker A: All right. Speaker B: Later. Bye, Leo. Speaker C: ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! Speaker C: Thank you so much. Speaker A: Thanks for having me. Speaker C: Thank you. Speaker A: All right. Speaker B: Later.

Bye, Leo. Speaker C: ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! ¡Es solo para ti! Speaker A: You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's OmniShade technology Columbia technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion.

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