Ep: 236- Boys Club Live: Mira Murati's Thinking Machine demo, Hantavirus Conspiracy, Jake Shane/Kacey Musgraves Moment, Musk/Altman court case, with co-host Quasimatt and guests Rubén Steckel (AirTM), Prince Boucher (LumaAI), Sahil Goswami (Dart Bank)

[00:29] Here's this week's show. [00:31] you [00:34] It's always really funny when we re-say hello and we've been in the studio for two hours. Yeah, we've been cleaning for like an hour straight. Oh, for sure. And then we're just like, oh my god, good to meet you today. Nice to see you. Okay, I'm Natasha. This is... [00:45] Quasimate. [00:46] True. And this is Voice Club Live. We have a packed show. [00:51] Absolutely packed show today. There's a lot going on. There's technology. There's culture. There's news. There's us. [00:58] So true.

What else do you need? Okay. We have three guests. We have a new segment. We have a preview of Show Me Your Stack Episode 2, Clip, Clip Farming. And it's really good, I will say. Is it not? Yeah. I mean, the preview is good. You know what's even better? The episode. Full episode. Yeah. And you can be the first to see it, besides all the people at Boys Club who have watched it many times, at our YouTube, which is Boys Club com. [01:24] That's the, yeah, Boys Club World. Go subscribe.

Hit the bell. Hit the bell. [01:29] Ring the bell, do everything you can on YouTube. I will say, [01:34] Something that has been so satisfying about having this new, for those who don't know, Show Me Your Stack is a network show by Boys Club. [01:41] It is essentially Into the Gloss, but for your technical stack. And if that means nothing to you, then you should just go watch it and then you can figure out what it is. Right. Is Into the Gloss about makeup? Yeah. Okay. Great job. To me, Into the Gloss is the makeup version of Show Me Your Stack.

That's exactly correct. Yeah. You're exactly right. And something that's been really nice about this show is I Am Not In It. [02:03] So I feel so strongly I can like just shill the shit out of it. Oh, yeah, totally. It's so much easier to do. I'm like subscribe. [02:11] comment, like all those things. Right. Because it's not my face. Yeah, it doesn't seem yeah, promoting yourself is so like, who does that? I would never actually just know, I literally just went to your Twitter for some reason. For some reason. I don't know why.

And I just saw your pinned tweet. No, it literally it kept up. So my pinned tweet is like a picture of me. That's just like I'm doxing. Wait, is this what you're talking about? Yes. Okay. Yeah. It's just like I'm doxing [02:41] after having talked to me like 10 times being like, Oh, like you're quasi Matt on the internet. And like, they didn't like put it together. So I was like, I just need everyone to know. Cause it's really annoying. It's like, [02:50] If I don't, I love when people have more context about me and I have more context about them.

And if we're like, yeah, I love it. Okay. Okay. [02:57] Yeah. So I want that to happen as quickly as possible. And I'll be annoyed if I feel like we missed out on some queening because they didn't know who I was. Lack of context. You're right. Okay. So it genuinely made me laugh out loud. It's the craziest photo of you. You look like you're like in a mental hospital. Like I was just like, what is up with this? Yeah. And action. [03:19] Every company moving money globally hits the same walls.

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In chat. It's more natural for me to say in the chat. In the chat. That I think is kind of millennial. Yeah, we're embracing the culture. We're embracing Gen Z. Okay, we have some stories that we're going to dig into before our first guest. [04:02] Um, Ruben Steckle is coming. He's the founder, CEO of Airtm. But before we do that, [04:10] We have... [04:11] Some... [04:12] a range of topics here. We're really running the gamut. We're running the gamut. What do we want to start with? Do you want to go first?

Do you want me to go first? I want you to go first. You want me to go first? Yeah, I want to be educated. You want to be educated. We are going to then quickly talk about Thinking Machines release. [04:28] So Thinking Machine is Mira Morati's [04:32] AI company. She is the CEO of Thinking Machine. She was previously the CTO of OpenAI. [04:39] She is... [04:41] Dream girl. [04:42] Dream girl in every way. Like, I can't with this woman. I mean, I can't in a way where I'm just like, I'm obsessed.

Right. Yeah. You can't comprehend how obsessed and [04:54] I was going to say jealous. That was me reading way too much into it. Kind of jealous, but also, wow, pressure's on. [05:01] She raised $2 billion at a $12 billion valuation. They have not released anything yet. [05:07] Icon. Icon. Obsessed. Obsessed. I don't know. The dream. Like, I want to be like, I could do that. I could girl boss that hard. I could girl boss that close to the sun. But like, honestly, the older I get, the more unsure I could.

[05:18] you know, [05:19] Like you would think the more like the more naive you are, the more you're like, yeah, I do that. Yeah, I think there's there's two paths. There's like the the like extreme delusion path. Yes. Which is like the one that I think we have been thinking about. But now the new path when once you're older with more under your belt is like the cloud like path, the track record path. Exactly. Sort of clearly what she's up to as an ex-OpenAI. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And also like fully gigabrain like CTO at OpenAI.

[05:47] Couldn't be me. That's for sure. Okay. So they had this release this week. I am wondering, Kate, if we can play the video. [05:56] So there's a video. It's two minutes. It's it's we're showing. [06:01] Not telling, and then we're going to tell. [06:03] So the showing is happening now. [06:06] - Momentary. - Hey, I need your help with something today. You ready? [06:10] Absolutely. I'm ready. What's up? Yeah, so we're giving an announcement today, and I've got two of my friends coming to help. [06:17] Every time one of them enters the frame, I need you to say "friend".

[06:23] Got it. I'll say friend whenever one of them walks in. Cool. So we've got a new system for full duplex audio and video, which means that you can stream input into it in real time, and it can respond to you even while you're speaking to it simultaneously. How does that sound? [06:40] Sounds like a solid set up. [06:41] Full duplex with real-time interaction is super useful. [06:48] Friend. [06:49] Hey, Rovan, I heard you're talking about our amazing interaction model. [06:53] I have a few things to add, but to make it interesting, I'll do it in Hindi.

[06:57] Can you translate to English in real time for my friend and for audience? [07:03] Absolutely, I'll translate as you go. Today we are going to be able to [07:09] Today we're taking a look at our preview model. [07:14] to release it, which makes conversation between humans and AI easier. [07:18] It has many features like web search and artifacts. [07:22] Thank you. [07:22] Thank you. [07:23] Thank you. [07:25] Friend. [07:26] Hey, hey guys. I just heard something really cool about search and artifact generation. Perfect timing for me because just now I was wondering what are typical humans simple reaction time for auditory, visual, and tactile communication cues.

[07:42] Could you search for me? [07:44] Let me find those typical reaction times for you. [07:47] Got it. So tactile is fastest at around 150 milliseconds, then auditory at 140 to 170, and visual is the slowest at 180 to 250. Oh, interesting. Can you visualize them in a bar chart for me? [07:59] Absolutely, let me generate a quick bar chart for those reaction times. In the meantime, could you quickly explain to me why is auditory even faster than visual? That's a little bit unexpected. [08:11] Sure thing. Auditory is faster because sound signals travel a shorter, more direct neural path to the brain than visual info does.

[08:17] Makes sense. [08:18] Thank you so much. Great chart, by the way. You're welcome. [08:23] Okay. So that's the video. So I have a few things to say about what is unique about this model. There's a lot of other videos. You can go to the thread if you're so interested, Thinking Machine, at Thinking Machine. It's giving this. It's giving... [08:39] This is for the listener, the meme of the three boys on YouTube, like chatting. Oh, yeah. It's really is like I think he might even they might even be wearing the same color shirts.

Honestly, I'm. [08:50] But, okay, so... [08:53] I'm going to talk about what's differentiated from this model, and then we will have to touch on some of the text messages that were revealed last week. [09:00] Of course. I saw lots of fake ones and some which I assume were real. So you'll have to help me through like figuring out what was real. Fact check. Yeah. Okay. So basically what is differentiated? [09:12] in this model versus other like competitive models for Thinking Machine is that the main thing is that it's like, [09:19] interaction models so [09:22] solving sort of for like voice AI, which I feel like is pretty universally accepted, is not in a place that feels conversationally human.

Totally. You say something. [09:32] Then it says something back. Yeah, thanks for a while. Yeah, it says something back. It says something like, wow, great point, you know, and then moves in. Right. This is like. [09:41] and is demonstrated in the live translation, it is essentially you can, it can think and talk at the same time. And so that feels much more human and much more of a conversational flow with the model than other models. So that's the main thing that they concentrated on. And they're calling it, it's a full duplex system, meaning that it's targeting a 0.4 second response time and using

[10:11] which again is very different from other models. And then the other thing that they showed in this video that I feel like the write-ups around this model didn't really get into that much, but is visual cues. So like in the video you saw someone comes in and sits down and it acknowledges that it's seeing this person come in and sit down. Right. Um, [10:29] So that's what's up. They are thinking machine is betting that the next frontier of AI is overlapping, has overlapping speech and shifting context and is handling like physical interactions as well.

[10:44] Thoughts? [10:45] So I feel like my main pain point with all AI stuff is anything like visual or spatial, like images, video. It's just like not caught up. So I'm glad that someone is like dedicated to this. I also feel like the being recognized when you come on camera is like, we need that for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Kate's job can be easier because then things can just happen automatically based on like what we're doing. Yeah. I also... [11:14] This is more infrastructural, but I know artists who are using...

They're farther up the stack, I guess. But they're also doing things where things are paying attention. The AI is paying attention to your conversation, and it's giving you... [11:28] the mood of the conversation or it's giving you some sort of sentimental information about what's going on. Yeah. And then like participating in the conversation in much more. [11:37] I guess, less intrusive ways. Yeah. But their goal is always to reduce latency too. Okay. Like the fast response is like, I feel like really important, but it's also funny because that's, [11:48] Like, [11:48] I don't know that I want my AI at all times to seem like a human.

Like, that's not really necessarily, like, a priority for me, but I like, like, the video and visual stuff for sure. Okay, but I also think that you are someone who... [12:01] likes... [12:03] like interacting with a computer oh like that's part of the bit obsessed yeah okay oh oh you mean like as opposed to like i like that it's a computer instead of a human yeah like you're like this is kind of fun this is a part of it for me is that yeah yeah i would say that's true yeah i think there's a lot of other people who are absolutely freaked out by that yeah and [12:21] will need that to feel completely obfuscated in order to [12:26] engage with it daily in like a [12:28] consistent way yeah totally okay yeah i think like insofar as i have fears about ai they're like sort of related to that like like blurring the line between i agree human interaction and computer interaction yeah yeah um like bring it on but if i had to be scared of something then it would be that that would be the one you choose um i am rooting for her i'm rooting for her she's um [12:50] feels like a close personal friend to me for no other reason.

If not now, then a week from now, a month from now. Yeah, exactly. Okay. That's the, that's what she's up to. I am just going to check to make sure that this person hasn't texted me. Who's coming to this live stream. Okay. The other thing. [13:08] that I want to say is not to center a man in the conversation, but that is what I'll do briefly, is for those who do not know, Elon Musk, [13:17] Brought a civil suit against Sam Altman and open AI that is currently in trial in San Francisco or in.

[13:25] in Silicon Valley somewhere. And it is [13:29] provided so much fodder for the timeline. And some of that is... [13:36] around when Sam Altman was removed by the board from being the CEO of OpenAI. Right. I actually thought it was all that. I didn't even know that there was other context. Oh, really? That's the only thing I'm seeing. Yeah, it's about that. Basically, Sam Altman, basically Elon Musk is saying Sam Altman, like, [13:55] stole OpenAI as a, like that it was a nonprofit and, um, [14:00] Elon Musk put all this money into it under that reality.

And then basically Sam Altman was like, actually, never mind. And so Elon is trying to get him removed as the CEO and have basically open AI. [14:13] converted back into a nonprofit. So that's sort of like what this civil [14:18] cases about. And in all that, there's all this evidence being brought up around sort of like the character of... [14:26] Sam Altman and like basically how duplicitous he was in the, [14:32] in like his ambitions around what opening I would be. So one of the main stories is obviously when he was removed and the board decided that he was untrustworthy anyway.

[14:42] Part of that is like these texts between him and Mira Moradi, who was the CTO at the time, who was in the board meeting. And he's like asking her. [14:52] How's it going? Like, what are they thinking? Just and then kind of panic texting her and being like, how bad is it? Like directionally. And she responds very bad. He's like, OK. And like there's all these iconic basically like text messages between him and her and him and a bunch of other people and really hit the timeline like a ton of bricks last week.

Yeah. Well, my thing is, I think I only saw the fake ones. [15:22] Island, like, I don't know, some, like, joke about him being gay. Like, I didn't see, like, any of the actual real stuff. Okay, okay, okay. So that's why I, like, didn't even know what it was about. Well, the format of these text messages, it's actually really hard to... [15:36] Like to decipher what is real and fake because the format is so perfect for memeing. Yeah, yeah. It's like the easiest. You can replicate it so easily. Yes. [15:44] Yeah, but was the idea that, like, who's...

[15:48] side was she on? Was she trying to be actually giving him good information so that he could navigate a better... It seems like he had no control in the situation anyway, so he was just kind of crushing out. He was kind of crushing out. I think that he... [15:59] It wasn't the... [16:01] Like she replaced him as CEO, but very good day or something like a day. And I do not think she wanted that like at all. And I think that she is perfect. I don't know. There's a lot of stuff that comes out about this woman and I'm going so hard in the pain on her.

But I do think that she was trying to like. [16:19] play the middle. And I think that they knew that she was in, I, I think it was like, you are going to be communicating with Sam. Like, I don't think that she was like secretly texting him on the side. Right. Because I think he was like, can I come in and at one point, I think he asked, can I come in and like plead my case? And she was like, they don't want you here. And so like, she must have been [16:38] It must have been an open thing.

Yeah, totally. It wasn't. Yeah, okay. Okay, we have five minutes until the next guest is supposed to be here. And come on. And... [16:48] I feel like you should maybe give me some context on... [16:53] All I see here is Jake Shane, Casey Musgraves, which... [16:57] Yeah, I mean, yeah, well, the best thing we could ever do is roll the clip. Do we have the clip? Okay, yeah, let's do that. Let's give everyone context. [17:05] Can I ask you what your favorite song or maybe like a favorite lyric that you've ever written is?

Why are you doing this to me? I just, I have to. That's a toxic question. I know, but I have to. Something you're most proud of. [17:18] Oh, man. I relate to all of them for so many different reasons. I mean... [17:23] Like, [17:24] I don't know why a hookup scene just came to mind. I, like, really, really love that song so much. I think ultimately... [17:30] Maybe slow burn. I think it feels the best. [17:34] I feel like I'm at home in my... [17:37] dead center whenever I'm playing that song.

Always. My favorite line from that song, obviously, is... [17:45] The sun's going down, but in Beijing they're headed out to work. What do you mean by that? Me and Manny, who I work with, debate it every single day. Really? Yeah. It's not like a deep-coded thing. I know. This one isn't. So what does that mean to you? It literally just means what it means. [18:03] It just means they're going to work. [18:05] And I'm over here, like, the sun's going down in Tennessee, and, like, over there across the world, people are, like, it's a different day, and they're, like...

[18:13] going to work and starting their next day and, like, I'm over here. And it was very, like, stream of conscience. Like, I wasn't putting a lot of thought in. Like, it just, like, kind of came out. You know what I mean? Because I was just picturing. I was sitting on my porch in Tennessee and picturing these people around the world, like, [18:30] Doing their thing over there, you know, it's like the world just keeps turning and. [18:35] Yeah. And you're all right with a slow burn. And I am all right with a slow burn.

[18:39] And God, I love that song. That's the album. Everything you do is just brilliant. Thank you. [18:47] Wow, thank you, Jake Shane, for that amazing line of questioning for Kacey Musgraves. Okay, I've not seen this clip. [18:57] I'm sorry. [18:58] Can you buzz again? [19:00] We're doing a bit of logistics at the moment. We're doing logistical... [19:06] Okay, maybe actually do you just want to take this? [19:10] Coordinate? Okay. Can you explain what's going on? Yes. So the vibe is Casey Musgraves. She releases a kind of, well, she releases a single.

She releases an album. Yes. And so she does a press tour as one does. Only as God intended. On her press tour, she visits the beloved podcaster, Jake Shane. Yes. Jake Shane. I actually didn't see the interview, so I don't really know what the context of the whole interview is. But the most iconic question is he asks for the meaning of the following lyric. [19:40] Thank you. [19:40] Thank you. [19:40] Which is from a Casey Musker song. [19:43] In Tennessee, the sun's going down, but in Beijing, they're heading out to work.

[19:49] So the idea is, like, he wants to know what this lyric means. Do you have any guesses, maybe, of what this lyric could mean? Just that there's a different time zone, potentially. Yeah, okay. We're low-key, like, recreating the interview because that is exactly what Casey Musgraves said. And so the discourse online was, like, [20:07] Basically, oh, why did he ask that question? That's such a bad question. Like, of course, it's very straightforward and obvious what that means. Right. [20:13] And people were getting really mad about it. And I think, like, he catches a lot of flack because...

[20:17] his interview style is like very [20:19] Like he's really just having like a normal conversation. Like that's my impression of his interview style. Yeah. It was like, I think people maybe get the impression that he's unprepared or something like that. I think it's amazing. Totally. And I'm like, [20:32] the job of the artist is to make meaning from nothing. Right. And like Jake Shane literally asking like, [20:39] someone to interpret a very literal statement is like asking, inviting Casey to add layers and layers of meaning to something that might not.

Yes. [20:49] have a lot of meaning at face value. And so in a way, podcastliness is close to godliness because he is like – [20:58] The person that is truly creating value. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And people are mad because they want him to start with something. For sure. And they're jealous because he started with nothing. And he made something interesting and we're talking about it. And people online are talking about it. Uh-huh. And he didn't even write the damn song. Like, he asked a question. Okay. I feel pretty.

Hi. How's it going? Okay. I have a few things to say here. [21:23] And I just have to acknowledge that we are going to be... [21:28] changing gears into stable coins in mere moments. But I just have to say, [21:35] Casey Musgraves. [21:37] It's her fault. [21:39] That this went the way that it went. Wait, why? Because... [21:43] Exactly as you're saying, like, [21:46] Have she wrote the lyric? [21:48] Which is... [21:50] totally i like oh i see what you're saying yeah like it's totally fine like it's a totally it's it's a [21:56] it's a thought that became a song.

Right. And then Jake is trying to, exactly as you're saying, give her an opportunity. [22:05] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Just like unpack, like go deeper. And she could, she couldn't. And that's okay. But like, it's not on him. It's on her. [22:14] Yeah. Okay. So, well, I actually, I'm going to push back on that because I think that it's totally fine for him to ask the question. I think it's also kind of fine for her to not go deeper into the meaning if it doesn't mean more to her.

I think if he's going to bring it up and she's not... [22:28] bringing any more information, then he should have some sort of theory or like further commentary on it. Like, I think if you're going to bring it up, you need to have some substance. Yes. And so I would say maybe that was where he could have taken that. But I'm also kind of like, [22:42] It was really interesting because it was a nothing burger. And then it went viral. So I actually think that that is his magic. [22:50] is like mass appeal.

[22:52] Yeah, well, I think it's that you can see yourself. Like, if I interviewed Casey Musker, it's like, I would low-key ask that. Like, it feels aspirational. It makes anything feel possible. Totally, totally. Okay, I feel like we can revisit this again after the interview. But I think we should switch. Let's do a swap, y'all. Let's talk about something more serious. Ruben, come on down. You're going to be sitting where he's at. [23:17] I'm just going to pull up. [23:20] How's it going? [23:22] It's good to see you. Good to see you.

Okay, let me pull up your bio here. [23:30] You've got to really... [23:31] impressive situation that you've been building for many years. [23:35] Thank you. Like how long have you been CEO of Airtium? [23:40] For 12 years. Wow, crazy. Okay. I know. So Ruben Steckle, co-founder and CEO of Airtam. Airtam is a digital wallet for emerging markets, 500 payment methods across 190 countries. Last year, you guys processed a billion dollars in transactions. Is that correct? [23:59] A bit more. A bit more. Oh, flex. Okay, cool. Mostly cross-border payments to digital workers that work for companies like YouTube and Twitch, Scale AI, Fiverr, among a few.

And we're going to talk about the state of stable coins, the last mile problem, and your plans for sort of the rest of the financial services stack. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. It's super exciting. I met you in... [24:27] Rio at the Meridian, Stellar Meridian Conference. Yeah. And that was like my first exposure to Airtam. And then I was like, oh, wow, they're doing a lot. [24:37] You guys are up to step. It's been a very long time. I mean, 12 years in crypto is a lifetime, basically.

It's a lifetime in any industry. Yeah, true, true. Okay, so I want to start with stablecoins. [24:51] So for... [24:53] Some people, stablecoins has sort of been this like, [24:56] inevitability. And I think that [25:00] with everything that's happening in the US and some of the regulatory changes over the last few years, or really the last year, it's becoming mainstream in and around sort of companies here based in the US. But I think that you guys have been doing this for a long time and have a lot more context on sort of how people have been using stable coins beyond just after the Genius Act.

So I'm curious... [25:24] Like, I'm not. [25:25] And your vantage point right now, if you were to think about 10 years from now, [25:30] What do you think... [25:32] the percentage of global cross-border payments will be in stablecoins? 100%. 100%? That's a crazy number. That's crazy. It's an inevitability, I think. Okay. You really don't think that there'll be... [25:46] you think we're on a path that will just continue going down? [25:49] 100%. There's no other way. I think that [25:54] Well, stablecoin payments are a lot more efficient. They're faster, they're cheaper.

[25:59] And it also seems like [26:03] It's going to be... [26:05] A self-fulfilling prophecy. Like everyone is so bullish on them that we're all going to make it happen together. Okay. Even if that's the aspiration or if that's not. [26:14] I don't think anyone's like saying, you know, 10 years, 100% payments are going to be flowing on stablecoins, but... [26:20] with like MasterCard going in so heavy and Stripe growing so fast by themselves and going in so heavy. [26:28] Everyone's just... [26:30] looking to see how they can get a little piece of the action.

I think that's what's going to make it happen. Okay. And – [26:37] So my understanding of what – [26:40] Like, [26:40] what you guys do and how people are using your product is [26:44] I'm like a creator in Mexico City and I'm getting paid out from YouTube. [26:50] What happens? [26:51] they're using you, what part of the process is on chain? What part of the process is still on legacy rails? Like how does that sort of all come together? [26:59] It's very funny. I was coming into this and I started hearing...

[27:04] This discussion on pop culture, I'm like, oh, my God, what am I going to talk about? I know. I was like, you're like, oh, let's go into stable. The show has range. There's so much range. I like that. Wait, what was your question? I'm I. [27:20] Basically the intersection of culture and technology. I'm a YouTube creator in Mexico City. I'm getting paid out. Oh, yeah. Got it. [27:28] What is happening with you guys versus Legacy Rails? What's on chain? What's not? [27:34] So right now, a lot of people who live in very faraway countries are used to getting paid on PayPal.

[27:41] Mm-hmm. [27:42] Or another wallet. [27:43] And all these other walls are PayPal. They're not... [27:48] They're not focused on like their long tail market, you know, they're like focused on their biggest markets that represent like 80 percent of volume. [27:54] And then they do as good a job as they need to do for the rest of the world. And that just means that a whole bunch of people... [28:01] In this case, you asked about the YouTube creator that work online. [28:06] They're getting like a fast service. [28:08] Yeah. Which which is not great because that means they take a while to withdraw the money they earn, probably not getting the best exchange rate.

They're probably not getting access to the local payment method they need to use to pay whatever they need to pay. [28:23] And so by focusing on [28:27] This last mile, [28:28] the long tail of customers, we aim to give them [28:34] you know, like first class financial services. And you're talking specifically about one use case, which is the online worker. And we really, really think that [28:44] There's such a worthy... [28:48] you know, people, the online worker, we call them digital entrepreneurs, and we do focus a ton on them. [28:53] but we also serve as...

[28:55] People that need to save, invest, send remittance, buy something online. [29:00] because... [29:03] receiving an online payment from YouTube is one thing. [29:07] use case but there's there's so many issues with money around the world and so yeah [29:11] We just want to solve all of them, you know? Yeah. Okay. So... [29:16] A billion dollars. I mean, clearly with a billion dollars. It's like $3 billion in like on-chain payments. Wait, $3 billion? Last year? Yeah, yeah. Alone? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. Three times the amount that I had seen online.

Yeah. [29:29] Clearly that's not just a digital worker. That's remittances. It's all these other categories that you're talking about. And, um, [29:36] I'm curious, like... [29:38] are they experiencing your product as a crypto product or are they just seeing this as like this is the way I move money around? [29:45] It's just the way they move money around. Okay. And... [29:50] I think there's a lot of conversation around, specifically around stable coins that I think most people think of as like USDC or USDT or something like that. But there's all these local stable coins as well.

So like the Mexican peso or the Colombian peso. And can you just give me like a, [30:07] ELL 5, like 101 on like local... [30:12] stable coins and why and how those exist and how they relate to the [30:18] USDC or something like that. For sure. So I think right now what we see is that [30:24] The S. dollar... [30:26] or the stable conversion of the US dollar has become... [30:30] The main way to originate payments. Okay. [30:33] People are people in enterprises, small and medium businesses. They're saying, hey. [30:38] let's use this, originate payments, rather than originating wire transfer with, yeah, let's just send stable coins.

And that's why you have... [30:46] Bridge and BVNK and ZeroHash growing a tonne. [30:50] there are [30:52] pushing this migration. And that's great. You know, you can... [30:56] all of a sudden send a dollar-like email and it lands halfway across the world. [31:01] And someone could receive it as a dollar. And that's awesome. It's awesome also because it's portable. You could take it from wallet A to wallet B, wallet C. It's your money. It's like virtual cash. [31:13] There is one problem, though, with that, which is, [31:17] That dollar still needs to get converted into whichever currency you need to use to spend your money.

And there's, you know... [31:25] 190 currencies in the world or 200 as many as countries. Some countries are dollarized or [31:31] They use another country's currency, so it's less than 202 or whatever. [31:37] Um, but anytime you, you need to do this conversion, [31:41] It's expensive. Yeah. It was expensive. [31:44] For PayPal to do it, it's expensive for you as a retail customer to figure it out with your own stablecoin, whatever that's. [31:50] whether that's a USDT or USDC or some other global stablecoin. [31:55] And so I think that the next paradigm is...

[31:58] accepting that dollars are a great way to send me a payment, but they're not a great way to finalize a payment. [32:07] where if you need to pay someone... [32:10] in your country, in pesos, in Bolivars, in Kwanzaa, whatever, you want to use that money. And at the same time, we... [32:20] can't on see the benefits of like, [32:23] changing some random token on chain for another random token on chain and how quick and easy that is. Money should be no different. And that's why we believe, I think, as an industry that local stable coins [32:37] need to be created.

So that the exchange of that global stablecoin to that local stablecoin can happen on chain. [32:44] and therefore, [32:46] then consumer could have, you know, a cheaper end-to-end remittance. And then I think the next [32:53] Frontier of that is when local stable coins could be used to [32:56] to buy something. [32:58] No. [33:00] In the world. But in your local country. Yeah. So you don't have to go from... [33:05] stablecoins to fiat. You can just stay in stablecoins. And clearly, not even in the US are we there. And the US is [33:13] I wouldn't say it's the home because I think most dollar stable coins live outside of the US.

[33:19] But... [33:20] It's definitely the place where stablecoins have been [33:25] Thank you. [33:26] They have most institutional adoption. Yeah. And people here, they're not paying with stable coins. It's more like, [33:33] Coinbase is... [33:35] bridging the USDC to fiat transfer. [33:39] But ultimately, you're delivering a dollar, fiat dollar. You're not delivering a stable coin or USDC. And so I think we have a long way to go. However, adoption is growing tremendously. And so I think, yes, in 10 years, we'll be in a world where stable coins are originated and stable coins are delivered.

[33:59] Okay. Um, [34:01] So, [34:02] Really quick. [34:03] Basically, like... [34:05] It operates the same way where... [34:07] A S. C. stablecoin is pegged to the S. dollar. It's the same for a Mexican peso. It's pegged to the local currency. [34:15] Or some local bones or something. [34:18] Okay. We're not pegged to, but backed by. Backed by. Okay. We're pegged to the value of. Okay. And part of the reason why you have this conviction that. [34:28] by 2030 we'll all be [34:30] Just operating. By 2030? No. No. Okay. Give me 10 years.

Give me a full 10 years. Okay. We're in 2026. Oh, my gosh. Right, right, right, right. Okay. So if that's the case, part of your conviction is coming from the institutional adoption. Like all of these companies have been making announcements around like Stripe, Visa, Robinhood. Everybody's talking about stable coins. Those are just to name a few. Do you see those... [34:55] incumbents as a threat to you, as tailwinds, a little bit of both. [35:00] Thank you. [35:01] So look, I wouldn't describe Airtiem as a stable co-neo bank, even though we – [35:09] offer everything from loans to debit, eventually credit cards, DeFi yield.

We offer a lot of the [35:17] Revolut, who's a new bank, would offer. [35:20] But I more so see RTM as a... [35:24] The global stablecoin wallet. Okay. And that's because... [35:30] I'm very intentional with... [35:33] The outcome I think I see for Airtm given... [35:37] the belief that I have for stable coins in the world of payments, which is that eventually all payments will be originated in stable coins and will therefore need to land in stable coins. Okay. And I want Airtam to be that destination. Okay. Okay. [35:50] wallet for that stable coin payment everywhere in the world.

Because I do... [35:55] think you could draw a parallel with [35:58] the world of email today and how the industry looks like where you have [36:03] you know, a few providers and we're not going to switch. If you like in the future, you're going to [36:07] be settled with your stablecoin wallet and you're not going to switch. Okay. And I want AirTN to be one of those. Okay. The Gmail of stablecoins. Okay. And so I think in this... [36:19] long-winded answer to your question. Yeah. [36:21] But this is a major tailwind that institutions are adopting the origination of stable coins because that just means that there's going to be more flows that are happening.

[36:33] native to [36:34] our way of receiving them. Yeah. And so... [36:38] I'm very excited to partner with Bridge, ZeroHash, BVNK, or any other to land their stable point payments because they're very strong here in the S. And we're like super strong in the global south. Yeah. So when you say – [36:53] that Airtam will be [36:56] the stablecoin wallet is and your vision of the future is it like [36:59] I'm Apple paying and it's, [37:02] Airtam and it's a USDC stablecoin when I'm like buying my coffee. [37:07] No. Okay.

I think the S. market is like... [37:10] Thank you. [37:11] won by so many other super big companies. Okay. Amazing. We have... [37:18] No claim for this market. I think we more so want to be... [37:25] the home for the virtual assets of the people that have a need to transact globally. Yeah. Wherever they live. Okay. And I want to give them that experience that you have as an American and you use, I don't know, Cash App and Square. Yeah. Right. Yeah. [37:41] Venmo, I guess there's a stack, right? You're like Czech and Privilege.

I want that same experience to be available for... [37:49] people and businesses and, and, [37:51] big and small businesses and enterprises wherever they are. And we want to [37:59] Just continue making them the center of our attention. Yeah. Cool. And treating them, you know, as first class citizens. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. You guys last week announced Tala. Can you tell us a little bit about what that product is? Yeah, that's actually a super exciting product. [38:16] So first, tell us this... [38:19] I'm, [38:21] I don't know if you could say a microloan provider or...

[38:25] they figured out a way to underwrite the risk of giving someone a loan without having any [38:33] any access to a very sophisticated platform, [38:38] you know, [38:39] credit bureau or credit score. Okay. Any in very random countries or not random to us, but [38:46] where there's not a lot of infrastructure or there wasn't when they begun. And they said, hey, we need to figure out a way to loan money to... [38:57] to someone in a country without all this information. Okay. A lot of underbanked people were unbanked, period.

[39:04] And, [39:06] They're now saying, hey... [39:08] We're very good at finding this money at... [39:12] assessing the risk of people, we don't necessarily need to originate this loan. [39:18] Where if AirTM is up for giving us access to some information, it's... [39:24] we can probably give a loan through ERQM to an end consumer. Okay. And so we're super excited to bring this to our market because – [39:34] in our market. [39:36] I think we're stuck at collateralized loans, right? [39:41] Like you have to back... [39:44] any loan with some asset and it's amazing and you could [39:48] you know, get a very low rate on your Bitcoin.

[39:52] Yeah. By going to some DeFi place or whatever. [39:56] But most people don't have money to... [39:59] collateralize their loan, right? They have a liquidity crunch, they need money right now, and that's why they need a loan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so there's like, [40:09] huge overlap in between the issues that our customers face and the solution that Tala provides. And so we're super excited about. [40:17] to work with them. Plus, [40:19] Shivani, Saroya, Taleseo, [40:22] She's such an inspiration for me. She's amazing. [40:27] Thank you. [40:28] She's like straight up good.

Nice. Wow. I love that. And when you, these are loans across the board. They're not just mortgages, right? They're a loan for a variety of, um, [40:39] I don't know. For whatever you need it. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And basically how it's working is that like... [40:45] Are you guys providing... [40:48] You guys aren't providing the collateral for it. You're basically saying like giving some context for who the... [40:55] uh, [40:56] who the person is that is requesting the loan. And then... [41:00] partnering with them so that they can provide the loan to that person.

[41:03] Is that coming out? Yeah, exactly. So, [41:05] In a way, we're a platform for Tala to access customers. Nice. Okay, cool. And we... [41:12] are not going to present TALA to the customer. It's going to be Airtiem's loan, but effectively it's... [41:19] Tala doing it all in the background. Nice. That's awesome. Okay. So we're running up on time, but I, I would love to hear from you. Like, [41:28] What's the most broken part of the global payment system right now that most people don't talk about? [41:34] Thank you. [41:35] Thank you.

[41:36] I think the global payment system has been under a microscope for such a long time because there's been so many entrepreneurs trying to solve it. And we've created there for like 17 layer one blockchains in payments. And so. [41:52] I don't know that any one part of the system is not examined. [41:55] I think it's more so like... [41:59] There's a lot of people that are very far away from, [42:03] And they don't have access to a lot of the things that we take for granted here in the, [42:09] And I think we...

[42:12] man, we just need to keep going until they have access to, you know, [42:16] seamlessly receiving a payment or, you know, [42:20] Sending a payment or saving or investing or getting a loan. Yeah, and I [42:25] I frankly feel... [42:28] Like we're in the best time for the industry because there's so much infrastructure that's coming online that we could use and others to give better services and more connectivity to the global economy, to our customers in the ground. [42:40] And there's so many issues we have to solve. [42:44] around liquidity, [42:46] around tokenizing assets locally, [42:50] around education, [42:53] around distribution, which is probably the biggest challenge.

[42:57] But, you know, one step at a time, we'll get there in 10 years, 100% of payments. Okay. Okay. You heard it here first. Thank you so much for coming on. I think what you guys are doing is truly, like, so... [43:10] admirable and useful and I think there's a lot in this industry that feels [43:15] I don't know, sort of like, what? Like, that's a problem. And I don't feel that way at all about what you guys are doing. And it's really nice to see like, the connection to real people and their daily lives.

And honestly, one of the things that [43:27] got me into crypto is this idea that more, just more access for more people around the world to their own money. So thank you for coming on. So nice. I'm so glad I met you in Rio months ago. And can't wait to see what happens. You were carrying like three martinis. Okay, we don't have to get into that. Okay, on that note, see you later. Thanks for having me. Okay, quasi come back. [43:57] Bye. See you later. [44:00] Okay, we are going to...

[44:03] Yeah, for 10 minutes about a conspiracy theory that you have. Oh, yeah, okay. Okay. [44:08] Okay, let's see. Da-da-da. [44:12] I... [44:14] Thank you. [44:15] Okay, do we want to get into your conspiracy theory? What are other options? Okay, corporate people are going religious? I think I don't really have that much to say on that. I'd rather just do the conspiracy maybe. Okay, so um, [44:28] I just have to say, for the record, this is not news. Just like PSA. Well, it's sort of news about what's going on in my head right now, I would say.

Exactly. Yeah, which is like, I don't know. To say that that's not news is a little bit offensive to me, but... [44:45] Yeah. Okay. Just like some people watch the show for information. [44:50] This is a particular type of information. This is information that's sort of personal to me. From your heart. Yes. Okay. So give it to us. What's going on? Okay. So... [45:00] you [45:01] People were discussing this tweet from 2022 where someone identified that after the coronavirus pandemic, there would be a hantavirus pandemic, which is now, you know, on the precipice of perhaps occurring.

Who can say? [45:13] Okay. [45:14] I feel like I'm just going to put my hand up when when misinformation. Oh, yeah. OK, so I guess to be clear, my my exposure to Hantavirus is through like, I don't know, a few tweets and some AI generated videos and things like that. I don't really know anything about, you know, how contagious it is, how deadly it is, how it occurred. Other than that, I know that some old people were birdwatching in a dump, basically. And then now the world's like over, I guess.

So my co-host here doesn't read my newsletter because on Friday I wrote an entire newsletter debunking. [45:44] the virus spreading globally, but that's okay. Well, I will say later. Okay. Let's, let's like hypothetically, hypothetically, I'm interested in the truth. Let's, let's just imagine. Imagined. [45:54] I don't think I would read the Boys Club newsletter. Like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm just going to say it. Like, I probably would watch, like... [46:01] Like, I actually, I don't know what I would do. I've never thought about what I, how, where I would find the truth before.

Okay. I'm so unconcerned. Okay. Continue. [46:09] Anyway, okay. [46:10] So 2002 is when this theory was first surfaced by a random account. [46:14] What else happened in 2022? [46:17] The release of chat GPT. [46:19] Mm-hmm. [46:20] So the theory is... [46:23] A lot of people are scared of AI. Yep. Due to the popularity of ChatGPT and among other models and consumer products, I think that Hantavirus was planted by Sam Altman. [46:36] And that's probably his Twitter account. And it was planted by him in order to distract people because society needs something to be scared of, right?

Okay. So it's like, okay, everyone's scared of AI. Well... [46:45] I don't make money if people are scared of AI. I make money if people embrace AI. So I'm going to give them something else to be scared about. A virus. Yeah. So Sam Altman architected the spread of this Hantavirus. Okay. Wow. I have some things to say. One. [47:00] Not true. [47:03] Two, I love it. I love it as an idea. I think people should be thinking as critically about the world as you are. Right. Like, no one wants to connect the dots, it seems.

Everyone's just kind of, like, reading the Boys Club newsletter and being like, oh, yeah, sure, this is true. [47:19] Okay, that's fair. [47:20] I will say. [47:22] I do believe that. [47:24] Oh, okay. I do believe that... [47:27] there's a world where something like this could happen. [47:31] And we're living in it. [47:33] I agree. And we are not. And we are not. Okay. Just so people know, the Hantavirus... [47:41] did begin in a dump in Argentina. [47:45] Okay. A bird watch, not a dump. A landfill, I think it was.

No, it was like a bunch of Canadians, I believe went bird watching somewhere in Argentina in a town. I can't remember, but they went there and, [47:57] One of them got exposed to [47:59] wrapped droppings, inhaled it. [48:02] How? [48:03] Great question. Like, I'm just like. Yeah, how close do you have to be? What do you have to do for that? Anyway, whatever. Disgusting. I'm just like, people need to wash their hands more is the lesson here. Yeah. I want to know what type of rare bird they were pursuing. Like what bird can be found only in that dump?

You can find that out. Okay. Yeah. I'll research after. Yeah. You can ask. [48:20] You can ask. Yeah. And then they got on a cruise. [48:24] They all went on a cruise together. Yeah. And one of them was infected. And then essentially from that one infection, it's like nine people actually got it. [48:37] So far. Okay. So it seems highly contagious. Okay. No. [48:43] You know why I feel so strongly about this is because I am not quarantining again. I'm, I am not quarantining. [48:51] I mean, if it harms other people, [48:55] I care about other people, all that, whatever.

I will say all the things that... Whatever you have to say. [49:00] Okay, I know I don't want to be a business conscience, but like I can't do it again. [49:05] I can't do it again. Yeah, totally fair. I'm a social person. You know, I'm not an introvert. [49:10] Yeah, you've got to be outside. I've got to be out there. I've got to be on the streets. I've got to be seeing people. [49:15] And so I just need people to know that there are nine confirmed cases. Okay. [49:20] on the cruise.

[49:22] three people did die. Okay. But one of them, it's only confirmed that they died from the virus. The [49:32] They just died on a cruise. Yeah, okay. They could be. Options. I don't know. Anyway, there is information about how the virus spreads in the Boys Club newsletter. Please put up the two online. Okay, you can subscribe and you can read. I'm going to leave you guys on a cliffhanger. I did a play-by-play. [49:50] And maybe the conspiracy theory that I lay out is yours. Maybe what I laid out is the best theory.

[49:57] most accurate information that currently exists about what happened as of Friday of last week. So that's another thing. Okay. Yeah. I'll read it and catch up and make sure I know what's going on. One thing I did just think of is like, okay, so say this is a real threat. One thing we could do is like be concerned about it and like quarantine. Another thing we could do is be concerned about it and kill all the rats. [50:17] Like, finally, we have, like, a real, like, actual reason. Like, let's get the mayor to kill the rats and the mice and stuff like that.

And then we won't have to worry about it. Well, actually, that doesn't make sense because if humans have it, then they'll give it to each other. Okay, well, we don't need to. We'll acknowledge that. Narratively, kill the rats. Okay. Eric Adams. [50:34] And I, this is one thing that we... [50:37] we saw eye to eye on. He was really anti-rat. [50:40] And I was like, I would maybe... [50:43] Run it back just if he could solve that problem, which is a crazy thing to say, but something... [50:49] I would have potentially done.

That was my main goal. [50:54] You're a one issue voter. I'm a single issue voter in New York City and it's the rats. Okay, yeah. That makes sense. Okay. [51:01] Crazy transition here. We're going to bring up our next guest, Prince. [51:06] Come on down. [51:08] I'm super excited to talk with you. Hi. [51:12] So nice to meet you. How's it going? Come on in. I'm Natasha. Nice to meet you. Matt. [51:19] Okay, so Prince is, you're doing some really cool stuff. I'm just going to pull up your bio here.

Okay, you are leading growth and forward deployed creative at Luma. Luma is an AI company focused on creative media generation. You are creative yourself, have a bunch of creative projects out in the world. [51:40] music, a documentary, you have a community called Mission Athletic Club that's [51:46] for civic wellness, which is very cool. Welcome to the show. Yes. Thanks for having me. And you're based in SF, right? Yes. The mission. The mission. Okay. Fun. Okay. There's a lot that I want to get into, but first, what is creative media generation?

Creative media generation. It's magic. Okay. Cool. It's magic. You type something out, it produces a piece of content, nice image or video,