970. - Muna

[00:00] Pros trust the Home Depot for heavy-duty storage solutions for any job site or garage. Right now, get up to 15% off select storage and organization, impact and water-resistant totes, and shelving built to hold up to 2,500 pounds. Storage systems have space for all your tools and protect them in the garage, on the job site, and everywhere in between. Save time and maximize efficiency with adjustable shelving customized to your business's needs. Shop and save on pro-grade storage at the Home Depot. How pros get more done. [00:47] How long gone? A scorching Tuesday here in Manhattan, Jason.

The shirts are off in the [01:00] to touch 100 but luckily i'm safely tucked away in an air-conditioned room ready to podcast with my bf and a guest can't wait bro okay uh and what a day to celebrate international binary people day and i want to know chris when you when you're walking around uh new york city [01:20] And as you said, hot as it gets, hot as balls. [01:25] What's the least amount of clothing you'll wear when you're out on the streets? Oh, just... How far will you go? Shorts and a shirt.

So pretty regular. Shirt is way too vague, brother. I mean, there's a lot of shirts out there. I mean, today I wore a pair of Ripstop khaki shorts that I love that I got the idea from Scott Sternberg from some weird Italian brand I've never heard of, and a... [01:48] vintage j crew long sleeve shirt you know maybe one button lower than normal and some new balance 993s bow's hitting the streets okay no problem i feel like a long sleeve oxford is a little thick for 100 degrees in manhattan playboy it's not it's not it's it's not it's a thin it's not it is but it's not if that makes sense yes sure i should have worn a t-shirt it does it does make sense mr trump it is but it's also not just wanted to let you know that it is yeah yeah i know i mean [02:18] little little i'm not wearing grimici no i'm not wearing grimici i don't climb anything except except i'm just trying to see which lulu is a lulu lemon or is this to see it's literally it's literally some brand i can't it's like lc137 it's a brand i've never heard of they had these great scott was wearing these great shorts and i asked him where he got them he got them in mohawk and i went on

com and ordered them last summer and you said it's called viore c yeah yeah [02:48] Yankee Stadium. Are you serious? Kind of goaded. Like, I'm kind of into it. I'm like, dude, Eminem coming out hood up in the Viore is like, I'm kind of, it's a weird, it's the way that the hood loves aloe. These things, you can't plan for this stuff. It just happens, and they call it A-Lo, and you can't say anything. You can't. A-Lo. They call it A-Lo. The Joe Budden podcast all wear A-Lo and call it A-Lo.

Okay. [03:18] Oh, I didn't think about that. Yeah, they're lying to themselves. You're right. They're low heads. They're low heads. I'm a low head, but it's a low. Yeah. [03:27] The same way we can't say heroin, we've got to say Heron, and we've got to say the Arab and not Arab. The list goes on. I mean, when I say we, I mean me and the other black guys. It's pretty cool. I mean, I guess it all lies in the nuance, because if I were to pull up wearing Lulu or Alo or Viore, everyone would be like, oh, no.

[03:51] TJ is having a fun little troll. He's wearing it post-post ironically. Is he pulling it off? Probably not. A couple people might get a kick out of it. Is it high fashion? Yes, of course. The list goes on. [04:05] you know big freeze or eminem where is it you're like oh you just kind of get like you're wearing it in the way that bill simmons where is it where it's like i'm just an old guy and i like being comfy yes but to be fair and i don't care anymore about what i look like to be fair to be fair the hood the black the african-american community has always worn athletic gear [04:28] in a way that we didn't.

So it does feel like... Yeah, but were they wearing, like, Wimbledon tennis whites? And, I mean, I guess... No, but I mean... But I mean, like, there's always been, like... [04:40] Sportswear. [04:41] That's like very preppy, yoga, white girl, matcha-y. And then there's like... [04:46] A little more urban flavor. The lines have blurred. You can't get aloe or Viore at DTLR, but the visibility is so high, you can't help it. And the quality is probably good. The thing about aloe... The quality is good, I'm sure. The thing with aloe is it's expensive.

[05:05] Or relatively so. Not everyone can pop those tags at Lennox. Well, I'm at A-Lo with my chick, and she's getting a little set. Why don't I get some pants? Oh, shit, these are $150. It's like $150 for some sweats. If you're not on the Tom Brown sweats, this is a good option if you're broke. Yeah. You know what I mean? These shorts are cool, but they ain't that cool. It kind of reminds me of when... [05:26] whatever, a month or two ago when Drewski did whiteface and everyone's like, so does that mean white people can do blackface again?

Like, no. If the hood is wearing A-Lo and Viore and Hulu. It don't mean we can do shit. It don't mean we can do shit. Does that mean I can wear my FUBUs again? I can pull my Sean Johns out? I mean, you, since you're so similar to the broadcaster academics, I'm sure you could wear your academics jeans and no one would bat an eye. But I don't think. They don't make them tall enough for me. The in-scene max is out at 32 on this. [05:56] and a couple hundred on eBay.

Trust me, they max out a picture. Oh, shit. Oh, man. I feel... [06:03] I woke up early this morning, big dog. The jet lag hit me a little bit. You woke up this morning in New York after you arrived from London last night? Yeah, I got back from New York yesterday afternoon and then had some stuff to do. And then, yeah, I woke up at like 4.30. I didn't feel great, but I'm coming back to life. Waking up on TJ time, I like that. I know, I know. I'm coming back to life.

It's all good. There's too much action. There's too much stuff happening. I got to go to Swan Lake tonight, which I checked the running time of Swan Lake, the ballet. [06:33] Thank you. [06:34] You want to take a guess, Jason? Just what I'm in for? There's obviously an intermission. Just give me a time. 3.48. No, I got it. 2.30, which is a full hour more than I would like it to be. You had me scared. Okay, so that is, yeah, 2.30. You might as well see the Odyssey. Yeah, I mean, honestly, the seat would be more comfortable at the IMAX than it will be at the Metropolitan.

But, I mean, anyway, I have a full day of taking the train in 100-degree heat to go sit and watch a ballet, [07:04] I do like for about 45 minutes, but as I said, it continues on. It soldiers on, much like us. I just noticed that Swan Lake is also happening in Glendale. Oh, wow. I wonder if that is it. The tickets might be a little bit cheaper. There is a truncated version. Apparently, there's only one act that's 38 minutes, and I was like, oh, my God, could I be so lucky?

And then Alex made sure to let me know, of course not. That is not what we'd be saying. 38 minutes. [07:34] I'm not Christmas morning excited to do this, but it's far from pulling teeth. You're a patron of the arts at the end of the day. But a Chris Black of the olden days... [07:45] You would settle this with some pharmaceuticals. Yeah, bro. You would make this two-hour, two-and-a-half-hour ballet. It would be a Zuby. No problem. When Alex looks over, I'm drooling at ink because I like these ballerinas. I'm doing something else.

I feel something else. But, yeah, unfortunately, I will be fidgeting. I just really have a hard time getting comfortable in these – even at Wimbledon, I was like, I couldn't stop moving around. I just cannot get comfortable in these sort of situations, and it makes me feel like a crazy person because everybody else is sitting so stoically, [08:15] fucking statue and I'm over here itching my face like I hit the pipe and moving around and my back hurts You're a fidgeter. You're a fidgeter. I mean, obviously it happens a lot with us tall guys.

You're not really ever going to [08:29] Sometimes I think about it like I'm sitting at a restaurant table. [08:33] And I'm like, I can't remember the last time I sat in a table and chair or in a chair at a movie theater or a sporting event. [08:40] Like how old was I when I fit in this chair correctly? Yeah, yeah. No, there's no. 12? Yeah, there's no. I mean, I did do one of my classic post-flight shakeout workouts, you know, where it's mostly stretching yesterday. And I really have to advise, no matter how bad you're feeling after an international long haul, you got to go do that.

It makes it 45 minutes at a gym without, you don't have to do much. It makes your body feel so much better. So much better. [09:10] Just melt. We've got to find a guy who does the weighted rollers and go see him. I've told you about this, right? Like the 100-pound rollers. No, they've appeared on my FYP. We've got to find it. Because I feel like they're all in, like, Iowa. You know? I looked them up. We've got to head out to Dearborn. [09:30] I got one closer to you in Tulsa if you want to check that one out.

I feel like a lot of the hot chiropractors in Orange County, which makes sense. [09:40] like giant lead weights on your back are more in the midwest region yeah it looks it looks cool you basically lay face down on like a massage table of some sort it's like a cross between like a a budget massage area and like a an industrial budget gym kind of energy yeah yeah like instead of putting a yoga block in between your legs to separate it they just put a smaller kettle they [10:10] what we need.

And then... [10:13] It's like the shape of a foam roller, but it's a 100-pound solid piece of... [10:18] of metal yeah and then you just kind of place those along the back of the legs the shins the neck and they're rolling them they're holding them so it's you could have compression work 300 pounds of steel just on the back of your hammies and then you just kind of melt for like 15 minutes doesn't that doesn't that sound good jesus christ i'm getting too excited i can't do this in these shorts i'm painting too much of a picture you know what i mean you are uh all right we have a guest [10:48] there in the band Muna.

[10:50] and one of the more swaggy musicians that I've encountered. So let's tap in and get into it. [10:59] This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle Woods in high school. Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is. Until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing. Law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of Legally Blonde, watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video.

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New episodes Thursdays, only on Peacock. [11:58] Thank you. [11:59] you [12:00] All right, look, thanks for joining us. All right, so are we in A.? Yeah, we're in A. Where are you? Are you guys New York? You're cosmopolitan travelers. Where are you? I'm in New York, and Jason's in A. I'm in Brussels. We're both at home. No, I'm in Brussels. Yeah, okay. I'm actually in Antwerp for the afternoon. Thank you for asking. [12:18] I wouldn't be shocked. Not a thing in Chile. Delta flies direct a lot of places. That's a great point.

Thank you. Yeah, we're kind of in their ass right now because they're introducing another way to [12:30] take our money. They're doing a diet Delta One now. You don't get to pick your seat. You don't get to go in the Delta One lounge, but you get the lie flat. It's the Southwest sort of free-for-all of Delta One. That's brutal. I want to know what the dollar amount is where Delta One, where you get to pick your seat versus Delta One, where they pick your seat. How much of a financial savings is it?

If it's like, we're going to take three grand off, [12:57] but you're going to get that lay flat instead of that lay flat. I don't give a fuck. There's no bad seat in Delta One is the point. Of course. There's 15 seats, too, or whatever, 20, mate. You know what I mean? It's not like there's a lot. That's what I'm confused about. But I think people, we talked about this. It's not like, oh, I got stuck in the middle between two fatties. You're laying down in the fetal position. We talked about this.

We talked about this a couple of days because it just feels like people really want to use that lounge, and that's what they're paying for, and they might still pay for that. Wow. Yeah. [13:27] Thank you. [13:27] to screw this is another way to screw over uh working musicians who've worked really hard to get their miles up and to hopefully be upgraded i i love this i i was hoping you would somehow find a way to make this about the working class yeah and i will i know i'm this is specifically targeted towards middle class musicians who are no longer going to get their seats upgraded to uh to premium select or god forbid delta one for their cross national [13:57] are a myth dry land is a myth like it doesn't exist anymore like it's it's no yeah and you'll totally get upgraded if there's not 45 millionaires who are just going to buy your seat instead you know yeah quit playing with us yeah quit playing with us girl i was just in a i we my my partner and i flew recently uh cover your delta regular cabin and [14:20] Then, hey, what's going on?

I thought Maddie's secret was doing pretty well at the box office. What's going on here? It takes a while to get those residuals in. Exactly. The checks haven't cleared yet. The SAG checks haven't hit the mailbox yet. No, there was just no there were no there were no comfort plus seats available on our flight. OK, push a T. OK, yeah, we're popping tags. So we went we were in regular in a regular twofer on the right hand side of the plane. [14:50] And we were like, we got put in Comfort Plus for whatever reason on the way back.

And we were like, the main was actually better. Comfort Plus is bullshit. There is not more room. And if you're in a twofer with your loved one, you're having fun. You're pulling up the armrests and you're just hanging out. It's not even that much. It's like, it's not worth it. Twofer with your partner is better than a threefer with a stranger. Sometimes. Sometimes. I've heard sometimes it works. I've heard sometimes it's good, Jason. I wouldn't know. It depends on what's currently going on with you and your partner. Yeah, yeah, totally.

[15:20] If you're in a fight, that would be tough. You couldn't put the arm. You have to have the armrest down. I think that I think that that sheet up in between under three hours, under three hours. I'm fine. Under three hours. For sure. Anywhere. It's not that big of a deal, especially if I have work to do. If I have the laptop out, it's iconic. I'm able to zone out, I think. But did this totally were you worried, though, when you get to the airport? Are you thinking about like, what is this about to be like?

Or were you cool about it the whole time? [15:44] I'm fine to sort of thug it out, as they say. I was more worried about the health and safety of my partner, who likes to fly in slightly more deluxe situations than myself, because she also has a work union that guarantees her certain rights. Oh, I didn't realize that. You are guaranteed no rights. I didn't realize that. If you're flying for a job, they fly you really nice. So you could get spoiled real quick. [16:12] And it's not your own dime.

So, yeah, you get accustomed to your lifestyle. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. So if you're a SAG member, you typically have to get booked premium or higher? You have to get premium select or higher? It's like a corporate job where if you're above VP or whatever and the flight's above a certain time. That's how it works in corporate world. If you're a VP or above and the flight is above five hours or whatever it is, then they have to do it. Totally. Yeah, I got flown for a movie job a couple years ago.

[16:42] two days and it was like... [16:45] I couldn't believe the way I was being treated. I was like, music is bullshit. We are getting screwed. You're like, okay, this shower at this venue doesn't have mold in it. So that's like about as good as it fucking gets. Those backstage showers, I did that once in my life. And recently, when I was with Wax Hatchy and Wilco, I had to do it. I had to do it. You have to. And it was a venue. You had to. Well, I was on tour, not playing the show.

I was on tour. That was the night I rode the bus. So I had no choice. [17:15] We're getting on the bus. You either do this or there's no shower. And I... [17:19] It was a venue in Nashville that was so new that I felt like I wasn't even getting the real experience. It was basically a fucking Kempton bathroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fine. That's best case. Yeah, but I'm sure you've seen some of the darker shit that they have to offer out there. I've seen some horrible things in the past 12, however long, years of touring it.

But now I'm in a place where I can be a little more selective about where I take a shower. [17:49] me and josette definitely really katie lead singer does not care she's like so game me and josette are like oh this is disgusting you know like the the butch dykes are like ew gross when you're checking into the hotel like who does your soap program you're like oh really that's i mean honestly honestly no me that's that's why i asked i have to say that's why i asked because i thought maybe it would be the other way all right so the fellas are the ones causing a stink the fellas are all [18:19] There's a couple of really like...

[18:20] historic moments in the history of the touring operation where my bandmate Josette has has taken out uh has requested our tour manager bring measuring tape to the bedroom to measure the the width of the bed and then call down and be like this is not a queen and then get the room changed that's that's happened yeah you guys are girth checking the mattresses you have to you have [18:50] Dude, you cannot let these people tell you what's up. [18:54] That's beyond anything I have ever heard or witnessed in my entire life.

I mean, I brought the measuring tape into the bedroom before, but never for that application. No, babe, I told you. I told you. Yeah, exactly. Usually a TV remote, I think, does the comp that needs to. It's probably the time zone. It's probably the time zone, Chance. I haven't grounded yet. [19:18] That's really, really cool. And I wonder now, after this episode comes out, if other people are going to come out of the woodwork and be like, you know what? I'd do that, too. If this is like a secret society of people that Josette is a leader of and we maybe didn't realize.

Yeah, we've all been eyeballing our mattresses for years. And wondering. Extraordinary things are possible. That is one area. [19:48] who is sleeping with a bedmate that night. Oh, because it's a three-piece. I didn't even think about this. Wow, that's rough. So we're pinching pennies. Yeah, the fellows are all sharing beds. And we're not tiny people. So it can be tough. So then you bring out the measuring tape for the bed. [20:06] figure out if you're getting screwed or not. Okay, okay. So that's... It has more of an actual practical reason.

There was a practical reason. Yeah, whatever you gotta tell yourself. Whatever you gotta tell yourself. But it was also just hilarious. I think... [20:20] It brings, not to speak for Josette, but I do think it brings her pleasure to catch people in lies in real life. Oh, obviously. Yeah, this is not about the three inches of comfort she's gaining. Sounds like a comment section, Naomi, I gotta say. Yeah, this is about truth and getting to the bottom of it. I just don't like liars. I don't know. I just don't like liars.

I don't like being lied to. I don't like being lied to. I hate hypocrisy. I like validation. I like justice. I do like all those things. [20:50] are posting measurements now, like when you buy jeans on eBay and you're like, no, it says 34 on the Levi's, but it's really a 31, you know? I'll be the secret shopper for com for the five-star properties if somebody's got to do it. I mean, I'm not super good with tape measures and handy stuff, but I could do that. You could cross-reference some stuff.

Exactly. I could at least cross-reference it. At the very least, I could cross-reference some stuff. What are y'all's [21:20] erudite travelers on the the united airlines where you can buy three seats and they turn into a bed have you seen this i have seen this i i only fly united if i have it's like gunpoint well it's weird on the east coast like newark is the best airport to fly out of low key from new york does rock and united that's united hub and if you want to go to like austin or aspen in places like that it's like the best i think that is a smart idea but i think it gets us closer to the stand-up airlines which [21:50] around the corner and that i that i don't anything that takes us closer to like bus vibes i think we i would say that's the opposite chris you're you're doing a you're doing a lay down you're you're saying i don't want three chairs i want a bed i know but i'm saying they're getting there's a lyric in there somewhere naomi sorry yeah yeah yeah they're getting too funky they're getting too funky with it is what i'm trying to say they're getting too funky with it and it feels like this is all steps in the wrong direction i was just gonna say i understand where you're coming from

[22:20] the hook on the back of your backpack, if you wear your backpack and you hook yourself onto a hook. [22:27] If you can find an empty hook, you can take it. You're the peaking duck for the seven-hour flight. Well, I think that... [22:35] The three top fold over, it's primarily for parents and their small child to create their little zone. And we were talking about this literally, I think, on the last episode about how airlines, I believe, are moving into segregating – [22:49] people of classes into... So it's like, here's this...

This plane's only first class and premium, or this one's only Delta 1 and first class. Yeah. This one is only three bangers that fold into... So I want to put all the families with crying, screaming babies all in the same plane. In their own area. Put all the rich, boring people on the other plane. Sure. And put the middle people on the... [23:11] Instead of like we can just have a bunch of comfort pluses from seat one to seat 56. Yeah. Knock them all out. You got your shitty kids? Yeah.

Get your own plane. Without those pesky private prices. No, but it's good. It's like when they have like the mommy and me movie screenings early in the morning. It's like a nice service to be like, hey, my kid's going to scream and be annoying. [23:35] So I'm just going to be around other kids that are screaming annoying easier on the parents. We just learned not to scream on planes. I actually think it's the instinct to scream on a plane is fair. I think we've been conditioned by polite society to not scream.

But these babies are screaming plane or not. They're going to scream wherever they are. They're screaming just being incarnate, which is also fair. Yeah. Yeah. I needed to hear that today. Yeah. I think again, I think that's also I on the way I got back from London last night. [24:02] And there was a guy, there's a family in the front three, like the three front seats of Delta One. And there was a kid, he was probably like 13, had the AirPod Max on. This motherfucker read a book. [24:17] the entire flight and afterwards i almost approached him to congratulate him i'm like i have not seen someone of your age he read a book for six and a half i went to the bathroom several times i'm a big hydrator as you know i saw him i saw him every 30 minutes never put the fucking book down i was like this is giving me this is giving me hope i don't know if it was harry potter i didn't check the spine but well chris there's this thing called autism and you just discovered a person who well [24:47] also on the flight, who...

[24:49] I did not see put down her cell phone for the entire six. I'm just trying to show name searching. Chris will bleep it. We'll bleep it. [24:57] uh oh look she didn't look good though i'll say that but i'm saying i'm saying i was like you like that is the i mean as a person who uses their phone in a healthy amount i was like this is shocking like i i once i saw the trend i kept checking a little bit just to see it was those of us who are so busy the plane is the only time i get to scroll and kind of fuck off you know yeah please yeah famously actors don't have any down time when they're when they're when they're shooting

[25:27] generally like anti-children because i grew up uh poor i'm anti-child in first class it just pisses me off like so much but if you're reading you get a couple a couple clout points from me i think that well there's a lot of blowback happening i'm not sure if you're familiar with kristin cavallari from the uh the hills the the blonde bombshell from the hills she recently got in trouble i'm poor not blind of course i know about kristin sorry we had basic cable what the fuck don't so she uh [25:57] She has recently gotten some blowback for being like, yeah, I put my kids in fucking coach.

This is I'm. [26:04] It's my money. Like, I don't give a fuck. Mommy worked for this. Get your bag up. I had three babies with an NFL quarterback. Not you, losers. Like, sit in the back. Like, I don't give a shit. I think that's a common rich person's thing where I hear, like, you know, Shaq. [26:20] talks about it. It was like, yeah, I got to teach these kids. [26:22] We ain't rich. I'm rich. And I think Kristen is doing a bit of the same. Yeah, yeah. Because she knows that, like, my kid is going to turn into a fucked up Kardashian if I don't set some of these ground rules.

Totally. We're going to get a Northie. Yeah, exactly. Have you seen... Bad case of the Northies. Have you seen Northies' hand piercings? Are you up on this? I'm not. You know what? You'll have to catch me up on the goings-on the past couple weeks. I've been taking a break from using my phone. I reached a breaking point. I was like, can't do this anymore. [26:52] as I know. I'm too online. Goodbye. Goodbye. So I've been off the past couple weeks. I did see a video of... Who did I see a video of saying hi to Northie from the stage?

Little Uzi Vert. Yeah, yeah. Well, another... I'm up on that. That's like... Who did I see but one little Uzi Vert? Little Uzi Vert. Little Uzi Vertical. People with... [27:14] uh unnecessary piercings have to stick together you know yeah that's why they're hanging northwest i i i just noticed this recently because people were but like i'm talking five to six piercings per hand which is a thing i didn't even know was necessarily possible i know we've made great leaps in the piercing space since i was in the marketplace well we've done with our we've gotten our infections down so much it's just it's crazy like you look you look at her hand and it's [27:44] My mind instantly goes hospital infection.

Like, tell me you don't bathe yourself. Does she just stand to get, like, bathed by other people? They spray her down like a horse after a session. The main entail. She definitely, she's, yeah, probably bidet only. And touchless bidet only hands up. [28:07] Just getting sprayed down. Never had a regular toilet. That's what I'm saying. Probably never even had one. [28:14] Oh, my God. Fear beyond. Imagine you're late for the big dinner meeting and you get that thing caught on the door on your way out. Crazy. Call 911. Honestly, it's insane.

I'm having earrings. Yeah, I know. Did you ever go through a heavy piercing phase in your younger days? I had. [28:32] Listen, I tried to gauge my ears for a second when I was in high school. I'm from San Diego, so we were in the punk and hardcore scene, straight edge for 90 minutes. Wait, I didn't know. Well, you're talking to two. [28:44] edge people who know what you're talking about i also stretched my own ears at home on my mom's knitting needles let's go proud to say i never stretched my ears and that's weak motherfucker and you never had it in you bitch that's also that's also true that's also true it did it was uncomfortable it's the only way i feel what was your era of san diego punk and hardcore obviously this this is post 3-1-g this is because you're younger than us so this is more 3-11 in that hole [29:14] Thank you.

[29:14] I was a high school class of, again, audience, cover your ears if you're young, and I guess cover them if you're old, too. 2011. So I was, like, 08 to 2011, 07 to 2011. So it was almost like there were, like, the kind of, like, job for a cowboy type shit going on. Like, really scary music. But also, like, Christian hardcore under oath type shit. And then, like, scene shit. [29:44] Not for me. Not for me. You don't pass under oath? Come on. Early Zayos was good. I don't care how satanic you sound.

So you were a little more of a Zayosin kind of chick? A little Norma Jean-er? Chiodos. Oh, yeah, Chiodos. Okay, so I'm getting the Zayosin. Circa Survive, yeah, all that kind of... Okay, okay. But actual hardcore punk stuff, too, and local bands in my high school. Did you play in any of these bands? I did not play in any... [30:14] Thank you. [30:14] There was a very charming kid in my grade in middle school whose dream was to start... He was one of the only black kids in a very white middle school.

And his dream was to start a hardcore band that included everyone in the class. So this band never existed in terms of actually playing. I think maybe one show happened. They were called the Moxie Bullets. And he was... [30:41] He basically would do, like, Chappelle-style white voice. And... Wait, when you say be in a band with the whole class, you mean, like, there's a 30-person band? He just wanted the whole class to be in a band. Okay, so this is, like, broken social scene, arcade fire vibe. Totally. Got it. But, like, no shows, no instruments, one rehearsal.

Okay, okay. If you're in the class, you're in the Moxie Bullets. This is a pretty revolutionary idea, I have to say, maybe ahead of its time. [31:11] vibes i like it yeah you would lose money touring of course but recording is fine no touring enterprise they're going sound check is a snap yeah we got nothing easy yeah i think it was more of a bonding exercise to include both cool kids and nerds into a social socially engineered bonding project back i think that's amazing that's beautiful back in jason we didn't back in jason [31:41] I mean, that was our arrow.

So there's a black person in school? We didn't have any of those. Yeah, we didn't have any of that either. It was me. It was half of me, but I'm so white-skinned that it barely counts. If someone says that I have a black friend and it's me, it doesn't count. Well, no, I'm not talking about San Diego. I mean, like, you know. Yeah, I mean, San Diego in general. I went to a Spanish immersion school prior to that, which was 100% POC vibes. And then I went to a white. Really?

[32:11] to there were a couple white boys getting off some you know trey flips and like kind of dickies pro club yeah yeah did you go did you go through a dickies pro club era oh i'm still there i went down the street to uh a local uh sort of convenience store in my neighborhood and they also sell uh huge there's a huge aisle of just like pro club shirts of all sizes so i went through [32:41] technically uh uniform uniform uh friendly oh compliant oh for the school for high school because they're just playing it's like that's perfect yeah that really is that's the official size is too big it's it's both my uniform and my uniform did your were your parents like what the hell are you doing or did they know you you had a freak flag from day one um my my uh what did they [33:11] around big air quotes occasionally oh your dad was around must be nice he was around in the sense that we might be in the same state at the same time and he would call me occasionally i wasn't able to he didn't share his he didn't share his location with me but i think he's in norcal right now so i think technically he's doing his job like where where does your dad live i'm like i'm not

[33:41] since you've risen to fame and fortune? He's very proud of me and happy for me. [33:48] Yeah, we just, like, we have a bit of a strained relationship. Sure, of course. But my mom's a G, and they were both jazz musicians, so, like, they think all music that's not... [33:59] Their hearts are a little close to all music and culture that's not jazz or funk, maybe, if you're pushing the edges of what's acceptable to listen to. I'll go as far as funk. Yeah, pretty much. And they're like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones.

They can't even play their fucking instruments. Wow, this is cool. That's where they are. Okay, so you learned about weird time structures and signatures at an earlier age than most kids? Kind of, but I'm like dumb. I was like, I'm too stupid for this. It sounds hard. [34:29] I like that you rejected that completely in the music that you make now. And that's why it's popular. And that's why you're doing well. Look, you might be dumb, but your fingers are not. There you go. [34:37] dummy i got enough of the musical vibe from my family to get like traumatized into like music education and being like a tight ass like did your did your mom play like was she still active when you were growing up she she kind of stopped playing when i was born uh yeah but and she also didn't want to have too she didn't play too much music around the house because she wanted me to like develop my own taste little unfortunately for her we were in san diego so my taste became like [35:07] you know as a 10 year old being like early green day is fucking awesome yeah she's like oh god turned out not how she would have liked but that was her job as mother totally totally but i didn't like i didn't listen as a result i was like you know eight listening to shade in like my tape like at school or whatever which is pretty cool um but yeah i didn't listen to any pop music i didn't know about the spice girls until i was like in high school like wow that's actually i'd

[35:37] MTV and VH1 or no? [35:39] At friends' houses, my mom lied to me and said we only had PBS, and I believed her until I was 11. [35:45] child abuse lock her up that's crazy that ain't a jazz house pbs all 24 7 we got we only have pbs sorry you're you're watching nova and learning about space or i don't know what you're gonna do you're reading a book so so you like knew about like unwritten law before the beatles is what you're saying yeah exactly yeah okay my mom is showing me like joseph joseph campbell like [36:15] the hero's journey.

And then maybe you can watch Arthur. What did she get home before four? What did she do for a living? What did she do for a living? Arthur's the treat. [36:24] Yeah, Arthur was the treat for real. [36:26] Um, she's a, she up until very recently, and she's like, she had me when she was older. She had, you know, me and, and my girlfriend, Kate, both of our moms had us when they were 43. So my mom had a full and rich life prior to me. And all I've ever known her as doing was being a house painter.

She's a house painting and consulting by herself. She owns her own business. She's, she's out there dolo painting houses, interiors, exteriors, consultations, et cetera. [36:57] And she's also very handy. So she's like Mr. Fix-It vibes. Wow. So she'll do a little semi-gloss coat, but then take a look at that leaky faucet. She's like, you know, nothing. That honestly somehow. Duct tape can't fix. Yeah. Somehow I'm finding a parallel between. [37:13] the solo work of a jazz musician and the solo work of paint, like the, the, the breast strokes of jazz.

Like the, yeah, like the isolation is, is maybe what she's attracted to. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Personal exploration. Jazz is also very much, and it's also kind of meditative. Walking up and down that ladder of life. Yeah. She's very like, she, she's like, I like being on ladders and being [37:43] I don't know where my fear impulse came from. Probably my dad's side of the family all are medically anxious and hypochondriacs and neurotic. Don't hang out on the roof. [37:54] Don't even go near a ladder that could take you there. You must have me fucked up if you think I'm getting on that ladder.

I don't love a ladder either. I don't love a ladder either. I like a ladder. If a ladder is doing this, I'm okay. If a ladder is just a straight... [38:08] Lean up against a wall. If it's leaning, no bueno. If we're triangling, I'll talk. All of it's a little scary. Did you play guitar first? I played classical piano from like four or five to like... [38:24] 10 or 11. You can't tell in the music I make. I really have scaled it back. Pun intended. That's what I... I did that and that was like...

[38:36] rigorous and difficult. I was also a little bit of like [38:40] a slack off, [38:42] I had like San Diego stoner energy before I ever even touched drugs, but I just understood that there had to be more to life than practicing. And it was probably hanging out with your friends, eating Mexican food. Chillaxing. Longboard, skateboard, frisbee in the park, Mexican food from Sombreros. Period. Yeah, exactly. Just because. I don't think you guys understand sort of how, like Jason's from Orange County, Huntington Beach. You're from San Diego. Like the stuff that you guys were doing is so foreign to someone from Conyers, Georgia.

[39:12] after school like oh we're gonna hit the beach or you know whatever we're gonna go it's just obviously we're all hanging out in like parking lots and shit don't get me wrong but there's a certain level of pleasantville california almost no matter how much money you had because of the weather and like the overall spirit of the place that seems ideal for a you know a kid basically yeah totally i think there it obscured the fact that i was poor for a long time because i was like [39:42] I can get a bean and cheese, so I'm good.

Yeah, and that's what everyone's eating. And then you turn 16 and all your friends get really nice cars and you don't. And you're like, oh, bicycle difference. You're like, I don't even get a hoopty. Yeah, I couldn't even get a Civic. All right, shit. [39:58] I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment from KQED. Every week, Snap drops you inside someone's biggest decision. The kind of decision you can only make once. With everything on the line, what do you believe? What do you want? [40:16] And what would you risk to get it?

[40:19] Find out. Tap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify. [40:29] you [40:31] I was thinking about that. I was like, I'm a full kind of converted Angelino. Now I just love it. It's an actual city. San Diego is kind of like a mall, like a spread out big mall. I guess you because people everyone says, especially people from New York, that A. is not an actual city. It's just a giant sprawling whatever. But I guess if you come from San Diego, A. is a city. And if you come from Orange County,

A. is a city. [41:01] You get it. You have buildings that go up. Ours don't go up. They go out. Okay. Ours go sideways. We're all going to survive. Like we've seen the Skechers warehouse. That Skechers warehouse is huge. One story. We're back on girth again. You guys can't help yourselves. Jesus Christ. Measuring tape. I'll do it. [41:19] um we're talking total square footage here buddy not height come on yeah i think there's like i'm like has anyone been to other parts of america that are like definitely not cities like la is for sure a city there is stuff here there's stuff to do just in the stuff part alone we are a city i think that's i think that's unfair to say about la i think la is boring but i think it's a real city i mean i think that's just insane to say it's not a real city it's not approachable it's [41:49] But I think if you're Southern California born and bred, it kind of just makes sense.

Did you ever go through a phase where you found A. to be lonely? Because that's a popular critique that I hear from people that live there. I understand the critique. Maybe I just had too much motion too early on. [42:06] Naomi said you're kind of asking the wrong person here. I went to college here, so I made friends. You guys went to USC? Yep. Yep. Crazy. Insane. Oh, wow. Rags to riches. Yeah, exactly. [42:19] They gave me a scholarship. My mom said, bye. Yeah, go ahead. We'll see that. Was it for music?

Was it for music? No, it was not. I was like fully trying to avoid doing music because I saw how hard the lifestyle was once I realized that we were broke. Well, what was the plan then? I don't really know exactly what my plan was. [42:49] USC. The fun, the fun, which is like, you are smart, we think. There's something here. There's something here. There's something here. Maybe you'll be able to figure it out. I've tangled many Gallatin graduates in my time. And it's definitely a coin flip either way. Listen, we're international listeners at home.

Could you guys explain this a little bit further? I guess. Okay. So Gallatin specifically is the NYU School for Individualized Study. You can kind [43:19] at nyu is a little more like esoteric and kind of boundary list like you can major in like composting oral histories of whatever ancient cartography like it's like something so kind of just out there jason it can get it can get really really useless because your dad's a pretty big producer and there's a job waiting for when you get back to brentwood totally it's kind of the vibe double major in incense studies or something yeah yeah yeah i would have don't even i'm i'm a [43:49] Full ride.

Yeah, full ride to Candle University. To Yankee U. [43:56] But the USC had a program, I don't know, I hope it still exists because it was good. It was called Narrative Studies. And essentially it meant like you don't have to be an English major. You can take... [44:07] classes in... [44:09] English history... [44:12] psych [44:13] playwriting film, like whatever, and kind of parlay that into any film. [44:20] in theory, like postgraduate studies that have to do with like whatever you end up thinking is the coolest. I see. Sure, sure. The website says stories shape how we understand the world.

Yeah. And then it's just basically just... That sounds like a fucking deck I got from somebody to pitch me on something. So that's like, I like the story that's in video games or theater or anything in between. Or totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [44:45] It was... [44:46] Yeah, it was like a just interdisciplinary, like, writing. Were all three of you in that program? Just a narrative person. Just me. I was in that program, and then I had a double major in ethnic studies, which is where I met Katie. Katie. [44:57] Because she had a minor.

They let her minor in ethnic studies? Yeah. They let the cracker do it. They wouldn't let me get away with that. They see me coming like, no, bro. Sorry. We don't want your money. What's your favorite ethnic that you studied? [45:11] Great question. I was a... Top five ethnicities of all time. [45:17] Listen, I'm half black. I got to give it up. I was a... In ethnic studies, I did performance studies. [45:27] with regards to blackness and queerness. So another big brain, postgraduate, interdisciplinary thing. Lots of money to be made in that stuff.

Lots of money there. So much cash. Yeah, I was like, well, it's got to be more than jazz. I kind of wanted to work at a museum. I love museums, and I was like, I'd love to work in a museum in some capacity, writing the little things that go below the pictures. Sure. I mean, look, there's a job. Cha-ching. [45:57] downtown librarian. That's sick. They like work at, one of them works at one of the like very prestigious private schools. And it's like, from what I can tell, she's actually changing lives, you know what I mean?

Like actually being like sick. [46:12] putting a 16 year old onto something that's going to set their course differently. And I'm like, I forget this can actually happen. Like I, like you kind of, you become so cynical that you forget that's possible. Yeah. Reading as opposed to flavored vapes or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe a little bit of both, but at least there's reading. Yeah. It might help the reading actually. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So nobody told you to explore narratives. You just stumbled upon that on your own. I explored them instinctually.

I sniffed them out. No, it's probably that. Yeah. My mom's [46:42] like videotapes as a child. And I was like, yeah, no choice. This is your bill for this. I'm dog shit at math. And, and everyone was like, I'm going to be an engineer. I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. I, I was like, [46:54] in the thick of like Obama era, like optimistic high schooler, but on the edge of like total and complete economic collapse where we still had dreams that the future was going to be like anything other than podcasting.

It was a fun little three year. Hey, don't. Hey, don't. Hey, we're not catching strays. Podcasting is up. [47:14] Put your bets on podcasting. Podcasting might have paid for that room you're in, for all we know. I'm not sure. I mean, come on. Yeah, podcasting. The band's going to have to. We're going to bring it back at some point. Yeah. Podcasting has better prospects than music. This is a thing that we talk about sometimes with musical guests in bands who are touring with instruments and gear and all that stuff. [47:36] And then, you know, I'm always like, you know, maybe start DJing instead.

You just it's like the cross between podcasting and being in a band. Yeah. You know, you're making people just as happy. You're splitting the money with nobody. There's no you show up and you just remember one job in music is songwriter producer. I mean, that's the number one. If you can be a successful songwriter and you don't care about touring, you get all the money. [48:01] You get all the access. You don't have to tour. That's the dream. I feel bad for, I wish songwriters could get flat fees in the same way that producers can.

Because a producer can be like, yeah, you want me to make your record? That's going to cost you X, Y, and Z. But songwriters, it's like you could be working with the hottest shot. And it's like, well, we'll see if we get you paid. We hope. And they have to hustle super hard. [48:31] I am trying to foster in myself. We're working on work ethic. We're working on it. But yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a solid one. And then you can like, yeah, you can have a, you can turn your ADU into a studio.

Exactly. People over and drink yerba mate and, you know, just crank this stuff out. It can be a good time. I'll just get it going. Yeah. The DJ thing might be a, might be a fun one to get into. Um, [48:55] I lived in an art house in college, and I would often... I was into... [49:00] making chopped and screwed remixes so that's the extent of my djing knowledge my brother come on chopped and slop you and i were probably making chopped not slop remixes at the same time you were in college i was 30 yeah hey hey peaks and drops chop chop not slop doesn't know age jason that was a chopping this because chop not slop i feel like that became part of the public canon because of drake is that fair to say maybe i would almost on a large scale on a large it was kind of

[49:30] Before that, it was maybe like the Clams Casino. Yeah, yeah. I feel like there was a lot of Lil B. [49:37] like chopped and screwed stuff slim k was like one who was a big one on dat piff you could get like but yeah the drake chopped and screwed remixes of like take care i think went pretty crazy that was i feel like that was a lot of people's first exposure to that texas like that shit at all oh this is cool yeah my my first exposure was the t-pain song chopped and screwed with it with a k that was a little on the nose you're saying it put you on to the terminology [50:07] And then I got further into the lore.

That's beautiful. His screw was chopped and screwed, and then the Chop Stars did chop, not slop, like the G-Ron C. He had to plant his sloppy flag as well. Yep. [50:20] I don't know my first chopped and screwed song. [50:26] Yours was definitely some Houston shit because it was 2006 or whatever. I was on Soul Seek in 2006. Sick. Accessing burned CDRs that I should not have access to at that time. That was a better time. I feel like that was the prime time of social media wasn't totally ruining your attention span, [50:50] you could possibly learn and if you had the wherewithal this you had to seek it out if you wanted to find it it was there not just like oh i'm a dj now because a video popped up on my on my phone showing me how you had to work you had to work for the alg wasn't as like primo sort of targeted at your base instance well you said you said you were taking a break i feel like you do this pretty often or you try to do this pretty often my current oh my social media break this

[51:20] dog. I try to do it. So this is particularly Instagram... [51:26] and like being like a voyeur on Reddit. I'm trying to give up. I can't give up YouTube. That's really, that's where the podcasts are. Well, are you watching like Theo Vaughn or what are you doing on YouTube? Imagine. When you watch podcasts, not listen. [51:44] Uh, I do both. Okay. I listen to, I follow a couple of, like... [51:51] News, kind of like YouTube, like that guy Chris Hedges. He has some good stuff. [51:59] And Dropsite News I'll watch.

And then I'll watch like roundups of Hassan Piker's stream on YouTube. I'll listen to those at the gym. I listen to Stavi's podcast. Love him. Piker roundups at the gym? Yeah. Wow, you're more Republican than Chris. Can you imagine? [52:18] Are we all using the Jeff Knippert app? [52:21] we fuck with that shit? It's pretty solid. I don't know what that is. I've never used... I don't know who that is. I'm giving him free clout. But, listen, it's that good. Who's Jeff? Jeff Nippert is a weightlifting... He's a kind of, like...

[52:34] He's implicitly not like incel style lifter. He's like a short... [52:44] cute [52:45] all natty bodybuilder Canadian. Okay. Is it nippers with an S at the end? Nippered. Even stranger. Nippered. A-R-D. Nippard. Got it. Yeah, Jeff Nippard. Okay, I'm back. And yeah, he has like... [53:01] It's pretty fun. He has a lot of videos of like, have you ever thought that maybe you're doing this exercise all wrong? If you want to be this most jacked person in the universe, that's kind of his vibe. I see he's doing an S-tier ranking of saunas, cold plunges, foam rollers,

, etc. He does shit like that. I'm sure that one video alone has more views than I will get in my entire life. That does sound pretty good. It's honestly sick. He's a competitive weightlifter, or this is his hobby? [53:31] He's a former competitive weightlifter, bodybuilder, athlete. [53:36] He's on that spectrum of weightlifting, but not looks-maxing, toxic vibe. He has a very gentle, soy, nice vibe. And he developed a really incredible workout app. And you use the app, this is what you're using to train? I use the app, yeah. Macro Factor Workouts Tracker?

Yep, that's the one. You're in pretty good shape. This is something you've dedicated yourself to. [54:06] See, I'm always doing something. Whether or not what I'm doing is optimal is what I'm trying to figure out with this app. Sure. I get that. You know, that's where I'm at. I'm spamming. I'm in a place now where I'm spamming buys and delts trying to get fucking... I'm trying to get... [54:26] like horizon level you're trying to get bring me the horizon level delts how how often how often are you in the lab let's say we're not on tour are we every day basically no well i used to okay so this is this is where this is where jeff nippert and the damn app comes in um okay and also he just has like good workout programs that you can find for free on reddit period and you can upload those to the app and then it tracks your progress and it like automatically update updates your like