Let’s Make a Deal

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Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. [00:47] Anyway, give it a try at com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at com. [01:03] Detective Donald Burnham was stumped. Yes, decidedly stumped. Because even though Cody and Tony were securely locked up and awaiting trial, there were things, important things, [01:16] He just didn't understand about the murder of that poor young woman out in the desert.

Two mysteries in particular. Which of those killer kids was driving the bus, so to say? That is, which one pronounced sentence on Mickey Costanzo? It seemed like one of them had to be more in charge than the other. Or maybe not. But for now, it seemed a reasonable hypothesis. And the second mystery could be expressed in one three-letter word. [01:46] Why kill Mickey, that smart, sweet, popular young woman that never harmed a living soul? [01:55] Well, there was possibly one way to start answering those questions. Call a triangulation via cell phone.

[02:08] Buried in the phone records of Tony Frado and Cody Patton was a trove of digital data recorded the day Mickey was taken. That is who texted whom and when and where. [02:22] Here's Detective Donald Burnham. [02:24] There was conversations and texts between Tony and Cody from the beginning of the morning up until 7 o'clock. How many calls are we talking about? Approximately over 100. [02:34] Wow. So they were just constantly in communication. Definitely. All day. [02:39] They both knew each other's whereabouts and what was going on. [02:44] 111 calls and texts, to be precise, over the course of 10 hours, except for one particular window of time.

Burnham and private investigator Bill Savage were convinced that the activity and its timing were... [02:58] could tell them something. [03:01] especially when they discovered that [03:02] Cody and Mickey were also talking and texting. [03:07] just before Mickey vanished. [03:09] Here's Bill Savage. [03:12] We know Cody picked... [03:14] Mickey up at school. [03:15] We know that Mickey didn't call like she regularly did. [03:19] The phone had to have been taken away from her somehow. [03:23] As Savage kept digging through those cell records, he noticed that activity on Cody's phone dropped dramatically around 5.15

, about the time Mickey went missing. Then just a few sporadic calls and texts between Cody and Tony up until 7, nothing at all like the flurry of texts constantly pinging earlier in the day. [03:49] 7th. [03:49] What was Cody doing when he was off his phone? Savage had a theory. Somewhere in that hour and 45 minutes, Cody [04:01] tie wrapped [04:03] Mickey's arms. [04:05] and had her way in the back of the trailblazer. [04:11] And then, during that window between 5:15 and 7:00, well, this is Tony's version of events.

I had gotten a text saying that he had had her, and I didn't believe him. Wait a minute. [04:26] I don't understand that. Saying that he had Mikayla. And he said that he was out somewhere in the desert and that he had her in the car with him. So I told him, you know what, come get me. I just had a knot in my stomach. I didn't know what was going on inside his head. I'm Keith Morrison, and this is Five Miles from Home, a podcast from daytime. [04:56]. [05:02] It was Christmas time in West Wendover, Nevada.

[05:06] The casinos on the Little Strip loved the holidays, and their bright lights burst out across the nighttime desert. Even City Hall was aglow. Neighbor after neighbor lit the trees brought in from far away and sang the happy carols. [05:22] but not the Costanzo family [05:28] And I'll steal you. [05:29] Not now. [05:31] Christmas Day... [05:33] It was not fun for me. [05:36] It's not the same. [05:38] And I don't ever think that's going to go away as much as I try. [05:44] Cody Patton and his fiancée Tony Fratto spent the holidays in jail of course awaiting their respective murder trials on New Year's Eve just about 10 months since the murder Cody turned 19 no one brought cake [06:04] How different his life had become.

Just one year earlier, he had moved in with Tony and her family... [06:11] and was baptized into the Mormon church, and was planning their wedding. [06:16] And now Cody lived, existed might be a better word, in the shadow of the death penalty. [06:23] But as the new year began, [06:25] Cody got a birthday gift of sorts. His lawyer, John Olson, had been working behind the scenes with the DA to get him a deal. [06:35] and get, in exchange, a long prison sentence with a chance at parole someday and no death penalty.

That was the safest way to go. [06:45] That was the way that would [06:48] Present. [06:48] at least a possibility. [06:50] that Cody would see daylight again. [06:53] And it would take the death penalty off the table. [06:56] In Cody's situation, that was a good deal, but the best he could hope for. There was a catch, however. Cody would have to testify against his fiancée, Tony Frato. In his confession to police, you may remember, he never even hinted Tony played a part in the murder. Now he'd have to reveal what really happened.

And he decided he would do it. [07:23] half weeks after his birthday, Cody and his attorneys met with the district attorney, ready finally to tell the whole story. [07:31] And then, suddenly, he changed his mind. He simply refused to implicate Tony at all. [07:43] Instead, Cody Patton decided to turn down the deal and take his chances with a jury. And then, the very next day, the DA offered Tony Fratto a deal. Well, not the same deal. Better, said attorney John Olson. She was given a plea bargain to second agree in return for her cooperation and statement and agreement to testify.

[08:12] Cody, tell all the terrible things he did. [08:15] she would not only avoid the death penalty, but just maybe get a chance at parole. When she would still be young, in her 30s, [08:25] We were not in on the plea deal. [08:27] at all. That was a surprise to us. [08:30] These are Tony's parents, Claude and Cassie Frato. [08:33] It happened very quickly and was because Cody was going to do a plea deal. [08:39] and then backed out of it. And her attorneys talked to her, and Tony said, [08:46] You know what?

Enough is enough. [08:49] The truth needs to be told. [08:52] And I'm going to tell it. [08:56] So on a chilly January day in 2012. [09:00] Little Tony Fratto was led from her jail cell to an office at the Sheriff's Department to tell her story for the record. And there, face to face with the DA, she promised to tell the God's honest truth about who did what. [09:15] out there in the desert. And why? So... [09:21] Would she? [09:34] Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well.

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The result? Higher conversion rates and scalable funnel at lower cost. To learn more, visit com slash podcast. In the, there's a break-in every 26 seconds. But when intruders step near, SimpliSafe home security steps up. Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. Using AI alerts, -based live agents help deter break-ins. [10:48] No long-term contracts. Save 50% on your new system with professional monitoring at simply com slash SXM or with promo code SXM. Outdoor deterrence requires a simply safe active guard outdoor protection plan starting at $49.99 a month. Visit simply

com slash licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee two zero one two. [11:10] It's a classic technique. Straight out of the police playbook in Criminal Justice 101. Got two suspects. Get one to take a deal and then rat on the other. Though, "rat on" might not be the phrase the DA would actually use. The technique certainly helps crack a lot of cases. [11:29] Takes a load off the legal system, too. And it certainly looked like it would help solve the murder of Mickey Costanzo. So now, in the sheriff's office, surrounded by lawyers and cops, Tony Frato told her story to the district attorney.

A whole new story. A very different story of how her fiancé, Cody Patton, after threatening and abusing her, [11:59] and even help commit the murder. [12:05] I'm a person to tell the truth and... [12:09] Deep down I wanted people to know the truth because I knew Cody wasn't going to come forward. For three hours, Tony unloaded on Cody. How Cody was upset with Mickey. How he hated the sound of her voice. How things were building up. And then one detail of her story that did not change. The evening of March 3rd, that text message from Cody.

All it said was, "I have her." And... [12:36] I can't believe them. [12:37] Yeah, that's really me. And what did you see in this picture? [12:42] I saw [12:43] Michaela in the backseat. You could tell that she was [12:47] I'm very scared. [12:50] Cody picked her up around 7, she said, and she sat beside him with Mickey stuffed in the SUV's cargo area. And then he drove out into the desert. Not a word was spoken, she said. [13:02] As they approached the gravel pits, said Tony, Cody showed her a text he had typed on his phone.

[13:12] We have to kill her. Did you say anything? [13:14] I didn't say anything. I just kind of let lie. And [13:19] He... [13:20] just kind of sugar pad and [13:23] Cody pulled over said Tony ordered her to get out and stand guard to watch Mickey as he dug a hole Tony said she peeked through the back window [13:38] and saw Mickey [13:39] sitting there silently. I could tell that she had been beaten up. As Cody finished digging the hole, [13:47] Tony heard Mickey repeatedly ask, "What's that for?" [13:52] What are you doing with that?

[13:54] then Cody took Mickey from the car said Tony and pushed her to the ground [14:01] I remember him... [14:03] like pulling back her hair and things. [14:06] To hit her, do it, it'll be okay, just do it. And I went up and hit and hit her in the face. [14:14] Then Cody punched her and kicked her, said Tony, before producing a knife, which she used to cut off Mickey's sweatshirt. That's when I had noticed that her arms were tied together. In what way? With the zip tie. It got worse as Cody issued yet another order, said Tony, [14:36] smacked Mickey with a shovel and Tony said she did on the back shoulder.

Must have hurt. But it wasn't enough for Cody, she said. He grabbed the shovel from her, she said, and hit Mickey in the head and she blacked out. And then, said Tony, Mickey was suddenly in that hole Cody dug, or grave, as she called it, and he was on top of her. [14:56] And then I remember going up and holding her leg down so she stopped kicking. [15:05] And then... [15:06] All of a sudden, her legs went completely still and she wasn't moving. [15:12] And though she had told Cody's lawyer, she helped cut Mickey's throat.

She now told the DA that wasn't true. Only Cody used the knife, she insisted. Cody and Cody alone. Well, she, horrified, backed off, but couldn't stop watching and listening. [15:36] He looked up at Cody and my... [15:38] still here? Am I still alive? [15:41] And then she kept looking, just take me home. I won't say anything. Just take me home. And then, Tony said, Cody ordered her to get into the car. So she did as he demanded, she said, and listened to the last sounds of Mickey Costanzo's life. And I kind of glanced over her and she was down in the grave.

[16:03] And then, said Tony, she watched Cody bury Mickey by himself. [16:11] No. [16:14] He never told you that? No. Cody abused her, forced her to witness the killing of a friend, and refused to tell her why. [16:24] And with that... [16:25] Tony Fratto had her deal. [16:28] The sworn statement she provided would now comprise much of the DA's case against her fiancé, Cody Patton. And none of it was like the story she told the day she showed up in her pajamas to see Cody's lawyer. Not the same at all.

Three months later, she was back in court to be sentenced. [16:49] This time for all to see. Her family, Mickey's family, [16:54] Friends from both sides, a horde of media, [16:57] Thank you. [16:58] Tony's shackles click clacked on the hardwood floor as she entered the crammed courtroom, dressed in jailhouse blues. [17:06] Then one by one Mickey's family went to the witness stand. [17:10] to give victim impact statements. [17:12] Here's Mickey's sister, Christina. I hope that you give her the maximum that you possibly can. That's what she took away from all of us.

[17:21] Mickey's father, Teddy, also spoke. [17:24] Shaking with rage. I don't have nothing good for her. [17:28] Ever. [17:29] That's what I see. [17:31] That's what I want. [17:32] Tony's attorneys told the judge that their young client wasn't a black widow, but [17:38] rather a sheep, controlled by a boyfriend who was jealous and possessive and isolating. [17:45] And then Tony rose from her seat and seemed to weep, though no tears were apparent, and read a short and simple speech, which was recorded in the back of the courtroom off-mic. [17:58] I didn't realize I was speaking up.

I'm sorry for what I did not do in the house, but I don't. [18:07] Celia Costanzo, Mickey's mother, was listening just a few feet away, furious. That was not an apology. It was BS. [18:18] She did not look at us. She had no remorse. She was not sorry. [18:22] She looked at a piece of paper. She read what she was supposed to read because... [18:27] It was expected of her [18:29] I was so angry to hear that garbage. [18:39] and had read all the letters, the many, many letters from Tony's family and friends, urging him to give her a lenient sentence.

[18:48] He looked out at all the eyes, staring back so intently at him, and he paused and said, This is as violent a murder as I have seen in twenty years on the bench. The attack on Michaela was brutal. It was vicious. It was violent. All shockingly so. There was a hush. The courtroom leaned forward. And then? The judge sentenced Tony to the maximum penalty the law allowed. Life in prison. [19:18] with an additional 20 years for the use of a deadly weapon. [19:22] But because she had accepted a plea deal, and that deal was for second-degree murder, the judge agreed to make her eligible for parole after serving a minimum of 18 years, meaning Tony could have a chance of walking free when she would be just 36 years old.

Am I happy that she can get parole at some point? No. [19:45] This is Mickey's mother, Celia. I will be at every parole hearing. [19:50] Thank you, Brynn. [19:53] Because she does not deserve to get out. [19:55] She deserves to spend the rest of her life in prison. [19:59] But due to the lack of physical evidence, [20:02] We got the absolute maximum we could get, and I am happy with that. [20:07] Because the alternative was having [20:10] A jury possibly setter free? [20:13] Never in a million years was I going to let that happen.

Never. [20:23] Her parents looked on, sad to be sure, but, said the Frados, with a sense of peace too, as they told the local media. Her father, Claude. It's a big burden lifted off of her, I think. So we're pleased with her decision. [20:39] and mother Cassie [20:41] she will be able to move forward with [20:45] A clean mind and heart and nothing to hide. [20:54] But as Mickey's family left the courthouse for the long drive back to West Wendover, they couldn't help but think that Tony Frato was still keeping secrets about how and why Mickey was murdered.

Here again is Mickey's sister, Christina. [21:15] it was. [21:17] You think she's more culpable? Yes, I think that she participated in every minute of [21:23] Planning. [21:25] And I believe that it was her idea. [21:28] That she said, this is what we have to do. She hasn't told it all yet. I do not think so. [21:36] So, was there really more to Tony's story? [21:40] Maybe. Because before she was arrested, Tony left something behind. Something in her very own words. That just might reveal the real motive for the murder of Mickey Costanzo.

[21:58] you [22:05] Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie, and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update, and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. From plumbing to electrical, roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Angie, the one [22:35] Feeling stuck with rising ad costs and flat results?

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-based live agents help deter break-ins. [23:20] No long-term contracts. Save 50% on your new system with professional monitoring at com slash sxm or with promo code sxm. Outdoor deterrence requires a Simply Safe Active Guard outdoor protection plan starting at $49.99 a month. Visit com slash licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee 2012. [23:42] They had been sitting in storage for months. [23:45] two small plastic containers full of papers and personal items. Nothing fancy or valuable [23:54] "'Not yet, anyway.' [23:56] They belong to Tony Fratto. [23:59] She had left them with Cody Patton's parents.

Left them there the day she climbed into Kit Patton's car and he drove her to that meeting with Cody's lawyer. Where, you'll recall, she confessed to murder. [24:12] Well, of course, Tony was later arrested. But those plastic containers sat undisturbed until several weeks later. [24:23] when private investigator Bill Savage got a call from Cody's dad, Kip. [24:29] and said, Bill, [24:30] I've got these two plastic containers. I've had them in my storage, and there are some diaries in there. [24:36] And there's some information in there that I believe is important to the case.

[24:49] little booklets adorned in colorful graphics and handwritten entries and notes [24:54] Revealing notes. In my opinion, there was some valuable information in there with regard to Tony's personality, her feelings. [25:04] In these little books, Toni unloaded her fears, lots of those, her hopes, and most particularly, her profound insecurity. [25:16] She expressed an attitude of being a very lonely person with no friends. She commented about Mickey's attractiveness and she, Tony, being very unattractive. [25:30] And, [25:31] conflicts between herself and Cody back and forth, breaking up, getting back together, breaking up.

[25:40] This, for example, she worried, quote, that Cody will leave me for someone else, cheat on me, that Cody and I won't last forever. We won't get married. She wrote of her own terror that her relationship with Cody wouldn't work out. [25:57] And if it didn't, [25:59] There was no point in living anymore. [26:03] You don't know how many times I have wanted to overdose on something so I wouldn't have to be here anymore. I'm very angry today. [26:10] so angry that I'm trying to overdose, [26:12] After I got off the phone with Cody, I went and took four aspirins.

In my opinion, a very troubled young lady. A troubled young lady who in many ways did not feel worthy, I gather. That's correct. [26:24] and who... [26:25] Loved this guy, but at the same time was terrified of losing him. Yes. Afraid of losing him to the girl he had grown up with, the attractive and popular Mickey Costanzo. Tony wrote, We might as well break up so he can get back together with her. They're perfect for each other. Tears, tears, tears, tears, tears, tears. I don't know what to do anymore. [26:50] Tony was jealous of Mickey.

[26:52] And if he were out of the picture, then Cody and Tony would be together. [26:57] She was everything Tony wasn't. Yes. [27:00] Absolutely. From the diary, they would be so happy together if I didn't steal him away. I know in my heart he really doesn't love me. I felt that that was a piece of the puzzle which tended to show a motive for this killing. [27:19] "In fact," said Cody's attorney John Olson, "those diaries were a true revelation. As he read Tony's desperate entries, the whole terrible thing seemed to him to fall into place."

[27:33] The diaries disclosed a real animosity that Tony had for Michaela. [27:39] And we were never able to discern... [27:41] how it was or why Cody would have any animosity towards her. He didn't. No. They'd been friends for life. Yes. And no one's ever shown me any reason... [27:50] that Cody had to hurt Michaela. But Tony... [27:53] Tony had reasons. So if you had to look for a motive in this crime, the only one that [27:58] seemed apparent was her animosity. It was the only one on paper, in her own handwriting.

The conclusion was inescapable in Olsen's mind. It must have been Tony who wanted Mickey dead, not Cody. Maybe her big strong boyfriend was just doing her dirty work. Do you think it's possible this tiny girl, 5'1", 90 pounds, could make that big would-be marine commit murder? [28:28] teenage boy once, could your girlfriend motivate you to do things? There's nothing more mindless than a teenage boy full of hormones. [28:38] Nothing. [28:38] In fact, private investigator Bill Savage is convinced Tony was pulling the strings. [28:46] My opinion is that although [28:49] Tony is a very small stature.

I believe that [28:53] Tony exerted a great deal of influence over Cody. [28:59] Mickey's family certainly seemed to think so too. [29:02] And now, as they awaited Cody's trial, they remembered things. Sister Christina recalled how jealous and controlling. [29:11] Tony was. [29:13] Tony used to get so upset if Michaela was seen talking to Cody. And she would just yell and holler and say something. [29:23] horrible things to Michaela. You know, don't talk to him and call her [29:27] every name imaginable, [29:29] "An intensely jealous young woman," said Mickey's sister DJ.

He couldn't be around girls. [29:35] especially my sister. That was kind of the indication from her diary that [29:39] She fought with him all the time, but she really wanted to be with him for the rest of her life. And she was terrified of losing him. Yeah. [29:46] She just would be afraid of the fact that they wouldn't be together anymore. [29:50] Oh, he'll end this with me, and then I'll be the emotional rep. Then I'll have nobody. She became, like, obsessed with him. [29:57] And Cody? Well, Cody, said Christina, was on a very tight leash.

I must have been doing laundry or something, and here Tony came walking, and he was like, gotta go. And I was like, you can't even talk to me? He was like, no, I can't. I gotta go. I can't be seen. She'll get mad. Who was the driving force in that relationship? She was. [30:21] Why did all of this matter now? After all, Tony had made her deal, had been sent away to serve years in prison for second-degree murder. [30:31] It mattered because Cody had yet to be tried. [30:34] And per agreement with the DA, Tony would be the star witness against Cody.

[30:42] Perhaps Olsen could get the diary and the evidence. Perhaps not. But if the jury bought the story Tony told at her plea hearing... [30:50] Cody's conviction would be all but assured [30:53] A ticket to death row, very possible. [30:56] Cody's attorney, John Olson. [30:58] It wasn't until... [31:01] Tony. [31:02] agreed to take a plea bargain. [31:05] that she became a direct evidentiary threat to Cody. [31:09] And we were able to [31:11] talked with him about [31:13] what his trial was going to be like with Tony Testofone and how it would impact his case.

[31:18] And that part of Tony Ferrato's [31:22] Statement. [31:23] And what she said, Michaela sat up in the grave. [31:26] and said, [31:27] To Cody, am I still here? [31:30] Can I go home? Oh, my. [31:32] You want to hear that when you're sitting on a jury? Devastating. Yeah. [31:38] So it was perhaps understandable that soon after Tony got her deal... [31:44] Olsen contacted the DA. Cody would like another chance to plead guilty to Mickey's murder. [31:50] if the state withdrew the death penalty. At sentencing, the judge would decide if he got a shot at parole, and it was agreed.

[31:59] This time, Cody took the deal. [32:02] and stuck with it. It was Cody's decision. He was very firm about it, and he was very positive. [32:08] about it when he entered his play. For the next several months, Cody waited in his little jail cell, hoping, perhaps praying, he might be given a chance of freedom some distant day. [32:23] And then, in August 2012, [32:26] On a hot late summer day they took Cody to the courthouse. [32:30] He wore a suit and tie. He was clean-shaven. His hair was as neatly combed as a groom's at a wedding.

Inside, a crowd waited. [32:40] And on the judge's signal, Mickey's family rose to offer their victim impact statements. Mickey's mother, Celia. This man should never see the light of day. He took my daughter's light. [32:53] and Father Teddy. [32:55] I want him to walk into that benedictionary, and when he leaves it, he'll be in the box. [33:02] Cody's attorney, John Olson, gave an impassioned speech, insisting that Tony Frato was the mastermind of the murder. [33:10] And since the judge allowed him to make a reference to Tony's diaries, Olsen argued that her very own words were as clear a statement of motive [33:20] as the court could ever see.

[33:22] Then Cody stood up to speak. [33:26] The room went silent. He turned to Mickey's family, nervous, his voice quivering. [33:33] I'm sorry for the unimaginable pain this has caused you. [33:37] Weeping now, Cody took long and frequent pauses as he wiped the tears from his eyes. [33:43] And for the first time he spoke publicly [33:47] about his fiancée, the woman he had protected in his confession, having never revealed that she was with him at the crime scene. Listen to what he said now. To the court, I just want to stay dead.

My co-defendant Tony Farz was not all to blame. [34:06] Tony was not all to blame? Cody also went on to say, I am to blame as much as her. [34:17] Jealousy, anger, senselessness. The rest of it, the rest of what he said to Mickey's family and the court, was an apology. No more, really. No explanation beyond. There's no reason, there's no why. [34:34] There's no justification for it. [34:38] Sorry, it's not enough. [34:39] Hey. [34:41] - Apport. [34:43] Very good thing. He even recited part of a poem written by Mickey, of all people.

[34:49] about a glimmer of beauty beneath all the ugly in the world. [34:56] And then he sat down [34:58] Well, the words... [34:59] Tony was not all to blame. Hung in the air. [35:04] and waited to be told if you'd have a chance to be a free man ever again. [35:11] Then the judge began to speak. You always had the power and the ability, Mr. Patton, to stop the wheels of this murder that you put into motion. Your blood runs cold, Mr. Patton. [35:26] I sent you to a child of life, and we allowed the Department of Corrections.

There shall be no possibility in the pool. [35:37] There would be no parole, after all. As Celia watched Cody taken away in handcuffs, she felt a small measure of satisfaction. I don't know. [35:47] In Cody's case, [35:50] Live in prison for the rest of your life. [35:53] And every day, I want you to think of what you did to my daughter. I want you to suffer. [35:58] Every single day. [36:00] because dying [36:02] The death penalty, you're getting off easy. [36:07] And I hope every day you live. [36:10] in the hell that I'm living because you took my daughter.

[36:15] But Mickey's sister Christina was conflicted about the kid, the neighbor whom she knew and once liked and trusted. [36:24] Every time I... [36:27] to say that I would wish that he would be [36:30] away forever and [36:33] that he would have the death penalty. I would have to stop myself because I would remember that Cody that has a heart. I know that that does not make this any less difficult. [36:45] tragic and that it doesn't make me want him to get out [36:49] I see the good in him. In spite of the fact that he killed your sister.

I know. It doesn't make sense to me either, but... [36:56] You have to sit there and go... [36:58] Oh my God, this person that I knew so well will never, ever have a chance of anything. [37:11] both Cody and the prison where he will spend the rest of his life turn down our request for an interview. But Tony Fratto? In our next episode, Tony will have a lot to say about that dark night in the Nevada desert. A whole new story about the killing of Mickey Costanzo. Oh, and just possibly we'll get to some truth, too.

[37:39] next time pointed questions for tony fratto did you ever say to him get rid of her no i get rid of her or you lose me no and some revealing answers when we finally got out to the designated area and everything what do you mean a designated area where everything went down that area was [38:09] you [38:15] Five Miles from Home is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Robert Dean is a producer. Brian Drew, Marshall Hausfeld, and Meredith Greenstein are audio editors. Molly DeRosa is associate producer. [38:32] Adam Gorfain is co-executive producer.

Paul Ryan is executive producer. And Liz Cole is senior executive producer. From NBC News Audio, sound mixing by Rich Cutler. [38:51] Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair? Done well. Kitchen sink install? Done well. Deck upgrades? Done well. Electrical upgrade? Done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust.

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