MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Spencer Irwin

[00:00] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. For some of us, summer means more juggling, which can lead to overwhelm and worry. BetterHelp makes it easy to get the support you need. Having served over 6 million people globally, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. They'll match you with a quality licensed therapist so you can focus on your therapy goals. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at com slash crimejunkie. That's com slash crimejunkie. [00:29] Hi, Crime Junkies.

It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now, wherever you get your podcasts. [00:59] Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

And I'm Britt. [01:03] Today's story about Spencer Irwin is one that I know you've never heard before, because it's never been reported on before. [01:11] And that's probably because if you were to ask Fresno police [01:14] There's no story to tell. [01:16] Or at least they would have said that for a while. [01:18] Spencer was a 30-year-old man that they found naked, covered in dirt, at the bottom of a loading dock back in 2024. [01:27] They initially assumed that he was homeless, assumed he died of a drug overdose. [01:31] "'assumed that there was nothing they deemed worthy of investigating.'

[01:35] So they didn't. [01:37] But boy, were they wrong. [01:40] Because Spencer Irwin was none of the things they assumed. [01:43] And he has a mother in his corner who has been doing all the investigating they wouldn't, [01:48] And now... [01:49] She's got us in her corner. [01:52] and you won't believe what together we found. [01:56] This is Spencer Irwin's story. [01:59] Music. [02:31] From the moment Kelly Irwin first got a call from the Fresno County deputy coroner telling her that her son was dead, [02:37] Things felt disorienting. [02:39] It was just before 11:00

m. on Friday, August 2nd, 2024, when she was told that her 30 year old son Spencer had been found the day before naked near some dumpsters. [02:51] And they couldn't say for certain yet, but based on the fact that there were no external signs of trauma, [02:56] They were pretty sure that he died from an overdose. [02:59] Kelly never knew her son to use drugs, and she had no idea why he would be naked or why he was found where he was. [03:06] Honestly, part of her was sure that this was some kind of huge misunderstanding.

Like, it had to be someone else and everyone was just confused. It had to be. Kelly wanted to go down to the Fresno County Sheriff coroner's office to see him for herself. [03:20] but they tell her that she can't. [03:21] They are sure it is Spencer and she's going to have to wait five agonizing days while they get him cleaned up and transferred to the funeral home before she can see him. [03:31] But five agonizing days later, [03:34] That doesn't even happen. [03:36] Now, Kelly knows the guy who works at the funeral home, and he stops her.

[03:40] And he's like, listen, Kelly, I'm not going to let you see him. [03:43] Spencer was in such an advanced state of decomposition that they wanted to spare her from that being the last mental image of her son. So instead, she asked to see at least a picture of a tattoo that Spencer had. When they gave her that, she finally believed them. [03:57] It really was her firstborn that they found. [04:00] but she still can't understand how. [04:03] According to the medical examiner, they were still waiting on the toxicology results to come back, which they were pretty confident were going to confirm what they'd been thinking all along, that Spencer just died from an overdose.

[04:14] Like I said, Kelly had never known her son to do drugs. [04:18] And I don't mean that in like a naive parent way where you think your kid is like some kind of saint. [04:22] And you're like oblivious to what is like actually going on in their life. [04:26] Kelly is the first person to tell you that Spencer struggled with alcohol use and was currently in a period of recurrence. He was really open with her about his struggles, but he wasn't the party with drugs type of guy. She said that he would drink alcohol, beer or vodka, but typically at home in sort of like a self-medicating type of way by himself.

[04:46] Now, the thing you got to know about Kelly is all she's after is the truth. [04:50] So even though drugs didn't make any sense to her, she wasn't even ruling that out. [04:55] She was just asking herself, [04:57] Why now? Who would Spencer have gotten them from? Like, is it possible that someone else drugged him? Was there something that they were all just missing here? And did the autopsy show anything at all? Well, no, because there was no autopsy done. I'm sorry, what? I mean, how are we even talking about talk screens?

[05:15] But there's no autopsy. The ME's office told Kelly that Spencer was released without one because they didn't think he needed one. How do you even know that at this point? Because they just... [05:26] said they took some blood samples to do a tox screen like a tox screen to confirm the conclusion they already made even though you can't actually make that conclusion without the results exactly okay and listen kelly didn't just sit back and take this answer she knew that they should be doing one she was pushing them over and over to do one except the more that she pushed the more she said that the coroner's office refused and the deputy coroner tells her like [05:50] Listen, we've seen this before.

Based on how we found him, we are confident he took some kind of illegal drug, something that made him so hot he stripped down naked before he died. And they point out that there were no footprints in the dirt around him. They only saw what they call... [06:06] a quote-unquote snow angel pattern around his head and arms that they suspect he made while overdosing. [06:13] They tell her that there are several other people who have died in this same manner, [06:18] And Kelly's asking all the right questions like, OK, I hear you.

[06:22] If he took something and removed his clothes, then where are they? Did they get collected? Do you have pictures from the scene to confirm if his clothes are around him? [06:31] No one's turned clothes back over to me, so, like, where are his things? Yeah. [06:35] But Fresno PD are like, [06:36] You know, I don't know. [06:38] Didn't collect anything. [06:39] Because there was nothing to collect or because you just didn't collect things that were there? Like, those are two pretty different things. That is what I'll be attempting to answer throughout this episode.

[06:50] I believe some of his things may have been around there. [06:54] And it's a real shame that they didn't try to collect more information. [06:59] Because near the end of September, Spencer's toxicology results do come back. [07:04] And they do not make this the open and shut case that Fresno PD thought it was. [07:09] Based on the coroner's report that Kelly got and shared with us. [07:13] Spencer did have alcohol in his system. [07:16] but only at the level 03. [07:19] And only two drugs showed up. [07:21] A barbiturate, [07:22] and gabapentin.

[07:23] But neither of them were at toxic or lethal levels. So then what killed him? [07:30] We won't ever know. [07:31] Because by the time these results came back, [07:33] Spencer had already been cremated, [07:36] Authorities wouldn't do the autopsy, so when Spencer's body got released, Kelly, Spencer's dad Dave, [07:42] and Spencer's girlfriend Kate got together and decided [07:45] that Spencer would have wanted to be cremated. And then after they did that, they had a service to honor his life. [07:51] And get this. [07:52] Kelly didn't know that private autopsies could be requested.

So she just took the coroner's office at their word. Right. Because, like, they're the authorities. It's their job to handle these situations properly. Like, if they say, like... [08:06] Nothing to see here. You... [08:07] want to be able to believe them. Exactly. Why would a family be read up on like this option of a private autopsy without reason? And it was heartbreaking for us to be the ones to tell her that that was an option. There's even a really easy phone number to remember that Kelly hopes people listening to this [08:23] will pay attention to in case they're ever in this unimaginable scenario.

Super easy. 1-800-AUTOPSI. Yeah, I remember we learned about this in the Amanda Winkowski case, right? Yes, yes. So you guys, [08:36] Commit this to memory. [08:38] 1-800-AUTOPSI. Maybe a private autopsy would have given Kelly the answers that she was looking for. [08:44] Because she is stunned to see in the report that not only did her son not overdose, [08:51] The coroner's report ultimately rules her son's manner of death as natural. [08:56] and his cause of death as probable sudden cardiac death. [09:00] from chronic alcohol and tobacco use. [09:04] Okay. [09:05] I'm going to need you to walk me through this."

[09:07] If he just had some random cardiac event... [09:11] Why is he, one, naked? And two, at a loading dock where he... [09:17] unless you know differently and haven't told me yet, had no business being. Like, this is like a pretty random place for him to be. That part has zero explanation. [09:26] The report just focuses on his past medical history of alcohol abuse, his high blood pressure, elevated heart rate, among other conditions. Yet when Kelly actually sat down with the coroner's office to go over all of the results, she says that they admit to her that since they couldn't find a clear cause of death, their only option was to call the manor natural causes.

OK, I'm not a coroner, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't their only option. You could be a coroner, though. [09:56] to be a coroner. Which is still... [09:59] wild to me. The sheriff coroner on these reports, John Zanoni, [10:04] doesn't have medical training. He's got... [10:06] A BS degree in criminal justice with a minor in agriculture business. I feel like with my history, I could actually corner literally those like credentials. And he's been a career law enforcement guy who was voted into the position. I mean, great reminder to pay attention to local elections.

You need to be voting for the person who you would want in charge of solving problems. [10:27] Your homicide, not the person with your preferred color tie. [10:30] And I keep saying, [10:32] I'm done with right and left. It is about right and wrong here. But here we are. Kelly has the coroner's office telling her that this is the best they can do with what they have. [10:42] Because [10:42] They don't have an autopsy. [10:45] But this version of best is just not good enough. [10:48] So Kelly goes to meet with the Fresno PD detectives and [10:51] begs them to do a real investigation.

[10:54] She's like, listen, [10:55] I just need answers and everything you've been telling me about my son is wrong. [11:00] Like, listen, she was patient. She tried trusting everyone, gave them time to do all their tests. But now something different needs to happen before more critical evidence is lost out on. [11:11] And in response to this impassioned plea, [11:14] She says that one of the detectives on the case is like, listen, [11:17] Your son died from natural causes. There's no evidence of a homicide here. [11:21] Case closed. Your son struggled with alcohol use.

At least now you don't have to worry about him relapsing. [11:29] Okay, Ashley. [11:31] I've been in recovery for four years, and I hope to God that you would prefer me [11:35] here and like doing well but maybe struggling here and there, then I don't know, dead? If someone dared say that to my face, so help me, God. [11:46] And we reached out to the Fresno PD for comment, not just about this specific interaction, but any comment about this case as a whole. [11:53] and they declined. [11:54] But Kelly is a better woman than me because she told us that even though it was jarring for her to hear that, and obviously it stuck with her, she didn't have any ill will against that detective.

[12:06] She's had a lot of people say strange things to her after her son passed, so she could look past that. [12:12] What she couldn't look past was the case closed, no evidence of a homicide stuff. [12:17] We don't have evidence because... [12:19] we didn't do anything to collect evidence. Like, [12:22] That's the issue here, right? Yes. But if they want evidence, fine. Kelly's going to give them evidence. [12:29] 'cause little did they know, [12:30] Just days after Kelly learned that Spencer had died, she started doing her own investigation. And there is nothing.

[12:38] Like the power of a mother... [12:40] On a mission. [12:42] Starting a new business can be intimidating. I mean, the amount of tasks you have to juggle can get overwhelming quickly. And it's like you have to be an expert in everything all at once. I mean, you think when I started Crime Junkie, I thought I would be running a merch store one day? I know. But when that day came, before I could even hire help, I had to expertly run a merch store. [13:03] And I did it with Shopify.

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[15:06] And by doing that, she was able to lay out for us a clear timeline [15:10] of Spencer's last movement. [15:12] going all the way back to the month before his death in June 2024. That was the month that Kelly first noticed Spencer had started drinking again. [15:20] She kept an eye on him, and he was still going to school at Fresno City College, maintaining his grades. [15:26] but she could just tell. [15:28] And those fears were confirmed in the beginning of July when she found out that Spencer had to go to the hospital and get stitches after he drank too much, fell and got a pretty big cut on his forehead.

After this, he was open with his mom about wanting to get help. And he planned on checking into a local rehab, but he had to wait for a spot to open up. And that wouldn't have been until the end of July. [15:48] Now, any time Spencer started drinking again, it made Kelly nervous. She's a mom, right? Like, she worried about him. [15:54] But they'd made it through this before, and Spencer had been pretty good about communicating with her when he was trying to get back on track. [16:01] Now, in the time before he was set to check into rehab, [16:04] Spencer tried detoxing.

[16:06] He told his girlfriend, Kate, that starting on July 10th, he was going to go to a detox program for like a week so he'd be off the grid. [16:13] But I know his sobriety didn't last because Spencer went to the hospital on July 24th with abdominal pain, nausea and a headache. The same symptoms that he had come to the hospital with before when he was in withdrawal. [16:25] Now, the report says that Spencer told them he last drank alcohol [16:29] two days before that, but he was trying to detox again so that he could start a rehab program on July 29th.

[16:36] Now he was discharged from the hospital that same day. [16:40] And in communication with Kelly in the days that follow, like there were things that he needed to get in order before checking into rehab. Number one on his list was getting his phone fixed. Like it had been randomly like turning off and he needed it because he was going to still be able to keep doing his classes at Fresno City College while he was checked into rehab, like through his phone and online. [17:00] On Saturday, this would have been July 27th, Kelly knows that Spencer walked to a Verizon store, like a four-mile walk.

But unfortunately, it was closed when he got there, so he had to walk back to his apartment. [17:11] The next day, Sunday, Spencer called Kelly and asked for a ride to that same Verizon store. But she told him that he needed to wait a little bit before she could give him a ride. And he's like, listen... [17:21] No problem. I'm just going to head out before it gets too hot. I'll walk again. Wait, whose phone did he call from if his phone wasn't working? I think he used a buddy's phone, this guy named Angel, who he had met in that like July 10th detox place.

[17:34] And Angel, I guess, was actually going to be checking into rehab with Spencer on the 29th. Okay. [17:39] And just to make it clear, like his phone, it obviously wasn't working this time because he called from Angel's phone, but it wasn't like totally broken from what I could tell. It just kept turning on and off or whatever. It was just inconsistent. Yeah. So shortly after 8, Spencer walks out of his apartment carrying a black backpack. [17:54] He's got a black hat on. He's wearing jeans, a white shirt with black shoes.

[17:58] And Kelly confirmed these details with Spencer's landlord. And she also got a still image of him leaving. So we have like visual proof of what he looked like when he left. [18:07] Now, the exact route that he took is unknown. [18:10] Now, Kelly asked detectives to look at traffic cameras in the area along the route that she was pretty sure Spencer would have taken. [18:17] but that request was ignored. So there's no concrete evidence to prove his path. The best Kelly can do is map out the most likely route, which would have taken Spencer along this busy street through a mostly residential area.

But somewhere along the way, Spencer's path... [18:34] had to have diverged. [18:35] Because when Kelly tracks down the Verizon employee that was working on Sunday, [18:40] They told her they never saw anyone matching Spencer's description that day. [18:44] Plus, Spencer's on Kelly's account, so she would have had to authorize any kind of, like, transactions that he would have made. And there's no footage of Spencer coming back to the apartment. No, he just vanishes somewhere after leaving the apartment around 8 m. [18:57] And then his body is found. [18:58] When exactly?

His body is found Thursday, August 1st. But the thing is, no one can tell her when... [19:05] his body actually had ended up there. Because on the coroner's report, Spencer's day and time of death is listed as the day and time that they found him and responded to this scene. And we know that he was already showing signs of decomp by then. Right. [19:19] Had he been there the whole time? Less time? Is there, like, time missing? We don't know. I mean, wouldn't he have been... [19:26] found if he was there the whole time?

Not necessarily. So when you see pictures, he was kind of tucked back behind this building. And this wasn't a super busy loading dock. And for most of the day, he would have been in a shaded area. So even if someone was driving by, [19:40] on like the... [19:41] parking lot part above the loading dock, I don't think that like he would have stood out. [19:46] But the thing is, even in a shaded area, an expert that we talked to said that [19:51] The thing that they would expect was for him to have been more decomposed if he was there for all four days.

[19:57] So... [19:57] I don't know. I think they're very well could be missing time. [20:01] that like we need to fill. And in relation to like his apartment, the Verizon store where he was headed, where is this... [20:08] loading dock. Not on the way. [20:10] I mean, it's closer to the store than his place, but there's like no direct path to the store that goes by this area. And actually, the next piece of the mystery clicked into place when Kelly actually went in person to see the area where Spencer was found.

[20:26] So, [20:27] This is like a storage area for a waste company in Fresno. This is basically where they store dumpsters and stuff, and it is not heavily monitored at the time. [20:35] Now, when Kelly was there, she was looking for places with cameras, and she found multiple [20:41] But most of them gave some kind of excuse for why they couldn't help. [20:45] They were either like, oh, we don't have tape or whatever, or tape erases after 24 hours. Or if you want our tape, you got to bring the police back with you.

[20:53] But thankfully, there was one business that still had footage and they were willing to let Kelly see it. [21:00] And this camera is pointed in the direction [21:03] of one of the two gates that allows people on and off this property. And just to like orient you, so like imagine you're overhead looking down on a rectangular building running vertically. [21:15] At the bottom, you have like the main road and to the right and left of this building, you can enter what's basically like a parking lot. [21:21] that runs like a U around the building.

And the loading dock, where Spencer is eventually found, is like in the very back. So from the vantage point overhead, the camera is pointing at the entrance on the left. [21:33] Now, Kelly spends hours going through the footage, which seems to only capture when it's motion activated. [21:38] But she's hoping to see some sign of Spencer going behind the business between July 28 and August 1. And while she doesn't get any confirmed footage of him on this camera. [21:49] There is something that catches her eye. [21:52] The timestamp on the footage said that it was just after 10

m. on July 29th [21:58] When a car... [22:00] pulls up to the entrance. [22:02] The security gate is already open, so this car can drive right through. [22:06] But as it does... [22:08] It turns off its lights. [22:10] Now, the quality isn't great. And what we've got is a video that Kelly took of the original footage on her phone. But you can see that the car is. [22:17] Pulls in. [22:19] goes off screen, and then it's out of sight [22:21] for less than 15 minutes. [22:24] Then it comes back and just leaves the way it came in.

[22:27] After the car leaves, there's something else that is captured. Now I only have a short clip of this. [22:35] But the video starts with someone standing by the front of the building, alone and in the dark. [22:42] And then they... [22:42] walk off like out of frame, but in the opposite direction than where the car came and left from. [22:49] But Kelly finds it odd that anyone is out there in this area at this time. Okay, could she tell anything about the... [22:55] car that was driving in and out well the footage is too blurry to make out any kind of license plate but the good news is the car is distinctive enough that you can very clearly tell the make and model it is a white kia soul oh those are like super boxy and identifiable yeah which gives kelly hope that maybe if she can find a connection to anyone involved in spencer's life who has access has a [23:20] Maybe this is going to be some kind of link that will lead her to what happened.

[23:24] Because though she can't prove anything from this video alone, she feels confident that something happened to Spencer. [23:30] on Sunday the 28th. [23:32] And whatever that car was doing back there on the 29th had something to do with it. [23:36] with how his body ended up back there. [23:39] After Spencer's death, Kelly would go back to that area and look around at the back of the building where he was found, looking for anything that might resemble evidence. And oddly enough, one of the first few times she went there, she saw a pair of dirty underwear laying at the bottom of the loading dock.

[23:56] And I'm using the term like loading dock kind of loosely. Basically, there was this platform and then like three steps down and you were on the ground level. So it's not like this big pit or anything. [24:05] But she took a picture of the underwear because [24:07] Without a doubt to her, she believes these were Spencers. [24:11] Kelly told our reporter, Taylor Day, that Spencer wore a specific brand with unique designs on them. He had like 30 pairs of these things. [24:19] Now, Kelly didn't collect them at the time, and she wishes she did, because when she went back another time, [24:25] They were gone.

And I assume that it wasn't the police who went back and got them. No, she told them about the underwear, though. She's giving everything that she finds to Fresno PD as she finds it. [24:37] But what they do with it at the time is a mystery to us all. [24:41] Kelly believes that Fresno PD just wrote Spencer off from the beginning because they just didn't want to investigate. And when I say from the beginning... [24:50] I mean right there at the scene. [24:51] Because guess what else she saw on surveillance footage when she kept combing through it?

[24:57] She saw officers respond on August 1st. And she says she watched a police car drive back there real slow. [25:05] Then an ambulance, a crime scene unit van even pulled up. But they didn't go back there. [25:11] It just... [25:13] drove away. The crime scene unit didn't even drive back to the crime scene? [25:19] Nope. [25:20] Oh, the more you tell me, the more pissed off I'm getting. [25:22] Like, they didn't know who this person was, what his history was, what had, I mean, they don't even, they, but they don't, they shouldn't even need to know that to do their job.

Right. This is their job. That's what I'm saying. They wrote him off and never gave him the courtesy of a proper investigation. [25:38] Now, remember, their excuse at the beginning was like, [25:42] Oh, we see this all the time. We get calls like this. Man on drugs, strips nude. [25:46] That's why they handled it the way they did. Okay, but did they? Well, this is the question. We requested records for calls of service within this, like, triangle around where Spencer was found. [25:57] When our FOIA came back, it turns out Spencer was the only death of a person call that came up in the year leading up to his death.

So it's not like they were getting like multiple calls like this. At least not in this specific area. [26:10] Now, I'll say their jurisdiction is much bigger than just this small area. [26:15] And in this area, there were quite a few welfare check calls, like sick or injured people. There were three suicides. But like nothing like this. [26:23] So Kelly takes all of this proof, what she feels is important evidence, [26:28] And she has a sit down with detectives. And she's like, listen, [26:31] I'm going to walk you through this.

[26:33] And then you tell me if at the end this all sounds like natural causes. [26:38] And hypothetical after hypothetical is disproven. [26:41] On drugs? [26:42] Nope. [26:43] TOCK's results came back with no red flags. [26:45] So our detectives are like, well, you know, like... [26:47] Maybe he had a mental crisis and took his clothes off and was like walking around naked. But Kelly's like, okay... [26:53] Like, probably not, because wouldn't that have been reported? So they say, well, you know, maybe he got hot and went back behind the building to cool off and then just like passed away.

Because like you're telling me that Spencer walked over four miles to that loading dock. [27:07] to cool off? That literally makes zero sense. No, no. And then they point back to the fact that there were no other footprints around him in all that dirt. There was just that snow angel pattern. [27:18] And then Kelly's like, okay, but then riddle me this. [27:20] How did he end up there if there are no footprints? No footprints are no footprints. And there's someone here. So like he didn't just appear. Every time Kelly pushes back, detectives are like, well, you know, yeah, you're right.

This doesn't make sense. And so Kelly keeps advocating for Spencer. [27:37] And eventually, finally, Fresno PD opens a formal investigation. [27:43] At this point, they're like six weeks behind and so much evidence has been lost. [27:50] But... [27:51] Kelly has developed one more lead that she hands them. [27:55] And it's the one in her mind that is the best place for them to start. You see, before Kelly got the call from the coroner's office, she had been looking for her son. [28:05] She hadn't heard from him in days, which was unusual.

[28:08] So on July 31st, she had called his landlord and asked her to do a welfare check. And the call that she got back on that same day was weird. [28:17] The landlord said that she had checked Spencer's apartment. [28:20] And Spencer wasn't there. [28:22] with someone else. [28:23] was. [28:26] Rosetta Stone, who have been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years, just launched Rosetta Stone Sapphire, a new app that combines its proven immersion method with the latest innovation technology to help you learn faster, personalize your lessons, and have more fun along the way.

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Visit com slash Crime Junkie to redeem your 20% off. That's com slash Crime Junkie and start learning a language for real. [29:22] I recently learned that after working out, performance and recovery come down to what's happening in your blood. Now, I pay a lot more attention to what's happening inside my body. And here's what most people overlook. Training gives your body the stimulus, but your internal environment determines what happens next. Thankfully, function can help you see exactly what's going on under the hood. Things like your glucose, whether your body is burning clean or running on fumes.

Your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, which one is winning the inflammation battle. Your DHEAS, one of the building blocks your body uses to make testosterone. [29:52] and one of the first things to quietly decline. When these markers are off, you can do everything right and still feel like you're fighting against yourself. Check in on your health. Function provides over 160 labs for $1 per day and member pricing on MRI and CT scans. Join at com slash crimejunkie or use gift code crimejunkie25 for a $25 credit toward your membership. [30:14] Kelly told us that Spencer was part of something called the HOPE program.

[30:19] a housing initiative designed to help and support Fresno City College students experiencing homelessness. The program also provided substance use counseling for those dealing with addiction. And part of the agreement with Spencer's College and the program was that the landlord had full authority to go into the tenants apartments to make sure that nothing bad was going on. [30:37] And so on July 31st, when Kelly couldn't get a hold of Spencer, she asked them to go in and check on him. So when the landlord called to report back, she told Kelly this strange story.

She said that when she entered his door code and walked into the small studio apartment, [30:52] She didn't see anyone. So she was about to turn around and leave, [30:55] But then she heard this sound come from the bathroom. So she goes over and opens the door, and there was this guy just... [31:02] in there [31:03] And she's like, [31:04] Who are you? Because she knew it wasn't Spencer. And this guy's like, oh, you know, I'm Spencer's cousin. He's letting me stay here while he's in rehab. [31:13] But the landlord doesn't think that's true.

Like I said, she knows Spencer. She knows Kelly. She's also seen this guy around. [31:22] She didn't know who he was. [31:23] She was pretty sure he wasn't Spencer's cousin. [31:26] And Kelly later learns that this guy's name is Angel Gonzalez. Angel... [31:32] that's the guy whose phone Spencer used to call his mom, right? And I guess that's what I'm getting at. Like, [31:38] Kelly knows that Spencer and Angel were supposed to be checking in on the 29th, right? Right, exactly. It's not adding up. Angel was supposed to check into him.

He's not supposed to be there. So Kelly asks if detectives can look into this guy. But Fresno PD just tells Kelly, listen. [31:54] We'll keep you posted. [31:55] And they also want her to stop doing her own investigation, especially in that part of town, because they tell her it's not safe for her. Naturally, though, Kelly doesn't stop. Thank God. Day after day, she shows up going from business to business, asking anyone if they've seen her son. [32:13] She shows them Spencer's picture. She also goes into different homeless encampments along the route that he would have taken from his apartment to that Verizon store.

[32:20] But she doesn't get any leads. [32:23] And to Kelly, even after the police start investigating, she says it feels more like detectives were trying to do everything they could to prove their conclusion rather than look into whether or not foul play could have occurred. Like they spoke to Spencer's girlfriend, Kate, months after his death. [32:41] And in their quick 15-minute interview, they basically tried to explain how meth could cause someone to die in the manner that Spencer was found. [32:50] Our reporter spoke to Kay, and she told us that she was adamant with detectives that Spencer was never known to use meth.

Yes, he drank, but he did not use hard drugs like that. And his tox results prove that. Yes, so... [33:04] Kate is saying like the detectives were trying to tell her that meth may or may not show up in talks results. And she said that they told her it wouldn't have been impossible for it to be in his system without showing up in the results. It's... [33:16] Is that true? I mean, I guess I've always been in the depression that if you die from meth, I don't know, meth is in your system.

Wild, right? That seems like a one to one, like that's what happens. Yeah. And listen, I was like, I felt like I was losing my mind. I feel like I was being gaslit with them. I tried finding something. [33:34] Definitive. [33:35] And I did find a couple of studies. There was one from 2015, another from 2024, and everything I'm reading indicates that [33:42] that [33:42] If you got meth in your system, [33:44] it would show up. [33:45] Basically, Kate feels like they were telling her this, so maybe that she would convince Kelly that that's what could have happened.

And maybe this whole thing would just like go away. I mean, if you're Kelly, I have to imagine it feels like you're like losing your grip on... [33:58] reality. Gaslighting you. Everything seems so black and white because it [34:03] It is. And the people who are supposed to be helping you. [34:05] Like you said, they're just telling you not to believe your own eyes and ears. Yes, that's what led Kelly. [34:11] to our website at the end of last year to fill out our case suggestion form asking us to help her.

So I put one of our reporters, Taylor Day, on it to help Kelly. [34:23] And together, they have still been uncovering new information, including finding a witness who was near that loading dock the morning that Spencer was found. [34:34] They were there when officers arrived. [34:37] And they told us that to them, it looked like a homicide right away. Now, the witness who was at the loading dock the morning that Spencer was found asked to remain anonymous for a number of reasons. [34:51] But we verified their identity and the reason they had for even being in that area, which was completely unrelated to Spencer in any way.

[34:59] This person told our reporter that they were there when responding officers first arrived, and they said that the officers... [35:05] were immediately super dismissive, basically just like, oh, another transient that OD'd. Now, they may have jumped to that conclusion because this place was an area where sometimes transient folks would be. [35:17] And on a few occasions, unhoused people would use that area to camp out in. [35:22] But the witness said that they don't even know how they jumped to that conclusion about Spencer, because he didn't have any of the telltale signs that he was living on the streets.

[35:31] And they took even bigger issue with the fact that they were writing this off as an overdose because... [35:35] This witness says that they saw marks around Spencer's neck, specifically a purple mark on the back of his neck. And the witness said that they spoke up immediately, saying to the officers that this did not look like an overdose, which... [35:52] If that's true, [35:53] Changes [35:54] Everything. Yeah. [35:56] So we knew what we had to do. Our reporter goes to Kelly and gets her to put in a records request for the crime scene photos.

Wait, so there were photos taken? There were photos. This is the one thing they did do and did it well, it seems. Now we had Kelly ask for them because departments will often release more information to families than they will to media outlets. [36:17] And sure enough, they were willing to give them to her. [36:20] Now, she wasn't ready to see them. It's why she had never requested them before. So she, as soon as she got them, forwarded them right along to us and Britt. [36:27] If this case wasn't confusing enough, these pictures add a whole nother layer.

[36:34] But one thing is clear as day. [36:36] And that's that Spencer's cause of death [36:39] is not clear. And there absolutely should have been an autopsy to determine how Spencer Irwin died. Now, the photos we got are essentially... [36:49] fully unredacted, so I could see a lot of detail. [36:52] When Spencer was found, he was face down on top of a thick layer of dirt and surrounded by discarded trash. He's fully nude. And just like investigators said, clear as day, there are what look like snow angel marks around the upper half of his body.

[37:10] But interestingly, nothing around the lower half that would show like similar movement. [37:14] And we talked about decomp earlier. Spencer definitely had been dead for at least a little while before these photos were taken. Because when they roll him over, you could see that lividity was present and all of the blood had pooled to the front of his body. [37:26] But weirdly, his arms and his head were much darker than the rest of him. Though it was like kind of hard to tell like what was dirt, what might have been decay.

I didn't know what that meant. But here is the thing that I honed in on because... [37:40] Thank God for high quality crime scene photos. I was like zoom, zoom, like zooming in on his neck, trying to see what this witness saw. Now, I couldn't tell much from the back, like his hair is kind of in the way. [37:51] But when they roll him over, like... [37:53] Right freaking there! [37:55] is a line across Spencer's neck. [37:59] Now here's where I have to take a step back. [38:01] I've been doing this a long time.

I've seen my fair share of crime scene and autopsy photos now, but... [38:06] I don't want to do Spencer or Kelly a disservice by getting carried away with my opinion. I needed like a real seasoned forensic pathologist to look at these pictures and tell me what we were seeing. So we got a hold of Dr. Priya Banerjee, a board certified forensic pathologist who was gracious enough to help us make sense of all of this. First and foremost, the fact that Spencer was found face down, nude and outside is a red flag enough that an autopsy should have been done.

[38:36] said, full stop. I mean, which is what Kelly's been saying. Yeah. And Dr. Banerjee's next comment was on those snow angel marks. [38:44] She said those didn't make sense to her. And honestly, she brought something up that I hadn't even thought about. [38:50] One that the coroner's office surely didn't think of. [38:53] And it's that the marks could have been completely unrelated. She says this is a high traffic area with dumpsters like moving around. And she says the marks are almost too symmetrical. She says it's like too circular, like maybe something else caused those before he was even there.

And we asked her all of the things, of course. I'm like, well, what if like someone was on his back, like holding him down and he's like flailing around? Like, could that cause what we're seeing? And she says, no, still, it's too symmetrical. And so then, you know, I was like, well, you know, [39:22] He abused alcohol. And one thing that has kind of like loomed over this case is the possibility that he died of something related to that. Like, could he have had a seizure or something? [39:32] And she said, nope, like with these marks, like same thing.

Like you run into the same problem with them being too symmetrical. That's not him flailing. Also, him having some kind of medical emergency related to his alcohol abuse doesn't make any sense to me because he's naked. Agreed. And even in an overdose situation, Dr. Banerjee told us that stripping down isn't something she typically sees. The paradoxical undressing, as she called it, is typically seen in situations where the body is super cold, like hypothermia. [40:02] for. It's July in California. Like it is not cold. No. Him being undressed, though, helped in a huge way with Dr.

Banerjee's assessment because she could see almost all of him. [40:14] She could see that there were no signs he had been in a fight or in a struggle of any kind. [40:20] There were no bruising on his knuckles or anything. Now, the one thing I asked her about specifically were his head and his arms. I told you they were a lot darker. [40:30] And I thought this like meant something. Thank God we talked to an expert. She said, no, this is actually something pretty normal to see like when a body decays.

[40:38] So basically, when looking at it all, Dr. Banerjee said there is a world where she could see this being considered an unsuspicious death. There is no external trauma, you know, like the sheriff's coroner is saying. So maybe no foul play. But she said the only. [40:54] only way to know that would be to do an autopsy. She said you have to, to connect the dots, to rule out [41:02] other options or to even prove their theory right. Which their theory we know is wrong because of the tox results. Yes.

And listen, she clocked that same straight line mark right under Spencer's jawline that goes straight back. [41:16] But she said there is a world... [41:18] where it isn't suspicious. [41:20] She said it might just be a skin fold from like how he was laying. [41:24] But it also could be [41:27] A ligature mark. And the only way to know for sure would be an autopsy. Yes. So Dr. Banerjee can't tell us from the pictures what killed Spencer. [41:39] But after her consultation, what I am confident of is that his case was mishandled from the jump in a way that [41:47] that would have serious implications for its solvability itself.

[41:51] down the line. In these pictures, did you see any of his clothes or like other things? No, there's actually like a couple of clothing items up on the dock itself, kind of like above Spencer. But we showed images of just those to Kelly and she said those didn't look like Spencer's things. [42:08] So as far as we've been able to tell, his stuff is still missing, including that phone that we know he had on him when he was headed to the Verizon store. [42:20] You want to know something weird about that?

Sure. Kate told our reporter that sometime after Spencer's death, she was on Snapchat. [42:30] and she saw Spencer's name pop up as like a suggested friend. [42:33] Like, because it's people in her contacts or whatever. [42:36] But under his name, [42:37] is what stopped her in her tracks, because it was a username she didn't recognize. [42:42] It started with Smiley, [42:43] And then it had six numbers after it. [42:46] And when it hit her... [42:48] who that could be, [42:50] It stopped her dead in her tracks. [42:54] Rosetta Stone, who have been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years, just launched Rosetta Stone Sapphire, a new app that combines its proven immersion method with the latest innovation technology to help you learn faster, personalize your lessons, and have more fun along the way.

The intuitive method helps you truly pick up a new language naturally. No memorizing random vocab, no feeling lost. I love that Sapphire helps you focus on what you actually want to talk about. [43:20] Whether that's football, travel, family, work, or your favorite hobbies, your time matters, so your learning should, too. [43:26] If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire. [43:30] Crime Junkie listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today. [43:35] You'll get unlimited access to all 25 Rosetta Stone languages, plus all the new Sapphire learning tools.

Visit com slash Crime Junkie to redeem your 20% off. That's com slash Crime Junkie and start learning a language for real. [43:50] I recently learned that after working out, performance and recovery come down to what's happening in your blood. Now, I pay a lot more attention to what's happening inside my body. And here's what most people overlook. Training gives your body the stimulus, but your internal environment determines what happens next. Thankfully, function can help you see exactly what's going on under the hood. Things like your glucose, whether your body is burning clean or running on fumes.

Your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, which one is winning the inflammation battle. Your DHEAS, one of the building blocks your body uses to make testosterone. [44:20] and one of the first things to quietly decline. When these markers are off, you can do everything right and still feel like you're fighting against yourself. Check in on your health. Function provides over 160 labs for $1 per day and member pricing on MRI and CT scans. Join at com slash crimejunkie or use gift code crimejunkie25 for a $25 credit toward your membership. [44:43] The six digits in the username that popped up on Kate's phone were an exact match for Angel's birthday.

[44:52] Angel. [44:53] whose middle name, by the way, includes Smiley. [44:56] And they know this for a fact because Kelly found Angel's driver's license in Spencer's apartment with his full name. [45:04] And Ada Burke. [45:05] So let's go back to Angel for a second. It turns out we know he only knew Spencer for like three weeks. Like I said, they met at that detox program that he went to on the 10th. After that, Spencer let Angel stay with him while they waited for their spots to open up in the rehab center.

[45:20] Angel was experiencing homelessness, and Spencer had made it his life's mission to [45:25] to help people in similar situations to Angel. Now, when Kelly was telling us about Angel and the way that he was basically integrated into all the different aspects of Spencer's life, you could have made us believe that Spencer had known this guy for years. And listen, being an associate doesn't make him complicit. [45:42] Neither does him being found in the apartment the day before Spencer's body is discovered, and likely after he was already dead. If that white Kia is really involved.

Right, if. But Angel lied about Spencer's whereabouts. Like, he's saying that he checked in to the rehab place, which, like, [45:58] doesn't make sense to me because they've been doing everything together you know Spencer's not coming home because you're there you didn't check into rehab so like what's up and Spencer was on Kelly's phone plan right like [46:10] Did she pull the logs? Was there any more activity? Oh, yeah. Again, she's a crime junkie. That's one of the first things she did. There was no outgoing activity after the 27th. And only two numbers had been incoming after that.

So the phone basically had stopped using her phone plan. And in case you're wondering, yes, of course, police have... [46:29] all of this information too. Initially, Kelly said Fresno PD couldn't locate Angel to question him, despite getting his mom's address where she heard that he spent time. Now, Kate said that she was able to talk to Angel through Facebook, [46:41] And she asked him if there was literally anything he could tell her about what could have led to Spencer's passing. [46:49] And Brent, I'm actually going to have you read his response.

[46:52] "Ugh, I completely understand and I was kind of expecting this message." [46:57] To be honest with you, I don't mind at all opening up to you. I just feel like it's not fair to Spencer to talk to you about this in the state slash frame of mind I'm in. And if it's okay with you that we pick up on it tomorrow, probably in the morning should work for me. I just want to be in a more sober sort of more genuine state of mind. I feel like he deserves at least that.

[47:16] I have nothing but good to say about him. [47:19] Yeah, that makes sense. Except he doesn't follow up. Kate sent us screenshots and she asked him about the area where Spencer was found. [47:27] She told him it didn't make sense why he was over there. [47:31] And Angel did respond to that. But just with this short message, he said, I've never been there with him. [47:36] That's odd why he was over there. He's never mentioned it. [47:40] So Kate messages him back asking about Spencer's state of mind, if you ever saw Spencer hanging out with somebody who drove a white Kia Soul.

[47:48] But... [47:48] Nothing. Ghosted. Never got a response. And let me tell you, Angel is not an easy guy to track down. Our reporter has called so many numbers associated with him or his mom. [48:00] but they all led nowhere, though I will leave you with this one little glimmer of hope. [48:06] As we were wrapping up our reporting, Kelly sent us an email saying that Fresno PD located Angel and interviewed him. [48:14] And it was thanks to that screenshot of the Snapchat. [48:18] She said they also got search warrants signed and subpoenaed Spencer and Angel's phone records to see if there is any helpful location data.

[48:26] TBD on those results, but like [48:28] this more than anything to me feels like like progress for the first time right and [48:34] I'm hoping that they're even looking beyond just Angel because there is someone else that Kelly has questions for. I told you there were two numbers that had contacted Spencer's phone after he disappeared. [48:46] Well, [48:47] One ended up being his therapist, but another they couldn't identify. So Kelly and Kate sent a text to this number asking if it was Angel. [48:56] And the reply was, no, this is happy.

And this is where things like start falling into place a little bit, because when Kelly and Kate were canvassing the area, trying to find people who had seen Spencer. [49:08] They had stopped at this one smoke shop and were showing pictures of Spencer, but they had also brought along [49:14] A picture of another guy, one of Spencer's neighbors, who Spencer told his mom he was having issues with right before his death. [49:21] This guy's name is Tyler, [49:23] But the person behind the counter looks at that picture of Tyler and is like, oh, that's happy.

[49:29] He's a bad guy. [49:31] Now, Tyler lived next door to Spencer, and he was also in the Hope program. [49:36] And the reason they had been carrying around his picture is because two weeks before Spencer's death, [49:41] Spencer allegedly told his mom... [49:44] He was pretty sure that Tyler broke into his apartment while he was in the detox program and stole [49:50] his money, his PlayStation, and a laptop. [49:53] And at the time, he was sure it had to have been Tyler because he knew his door code. Is this someone that he had trusted?

So I don't think so. But for some reason, he told Kelly that Tyler was like the only one who knew his key code, though I don't know how he got it. Tyler and Angel. Well, yeah, Angel. But like, I'm pretty sure Angel came after his stuff was already stolen. Got it. Now, Spencer didn't call the police at the time. He wanted to like handle it himself. [50:15] And all we know about how that worked out comes from Spencer's landlord, who said that after he accused Tyler of stealing... [50:22] A bunch of guys came over with knives and bats, I guess to, like, intimidate Spencer.

[50:28] But Kelly said that Spencer locked himself in his room and then nothing happened. [50:32] Now, Kelly feels pretty certain that Tyler did take the stuff because he [50:36] As fate would have it, Kelly was going through Facebook Marketplace, and she typed in Tyler's full name. And sure enough, there was a sale posted on Facebook for a 2012 Lenovo ThinkPad.