#2509 - Caleb Hammer

[00:00] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Good to see you, sir. You too, nice to meet you. Very nice to meet you too. I enjoy your content. Thank you. You're a very sensible person. And you deal with a lot of very unsensible people. How do you fucking keep your shit together when you talk to these people? We tell everybody you're a finance guy. And did you start out? [00:29] in debt and then figured out how to get your shit together?

[00:32] Yeah, exactly. I was in college doing all the stupid American things, right? So I got that unlimited student loan debt for a bullshit degree. I was going for music composition. [00:43] So complete bullshit degree. Maxing out every credit card. One of the first pieces of financial advice I got at 18 from the parents. Max out a credit card to get the piano I wanted. [00:53] So that's smart. Your parents gave you that. Yeah, this is the average American experience. You just max out a credit card. I don't know if your parents taught you anything about personal finances, but most don't.

It's bad. So I was just maxing out every credit card, like everyone that comes on the show, like every American out there. We got $1.6 trillion in credit card debt in this country, by the way. Crazy amount. Crazy amount. Defaults are to like 7%, which is insane. 7% of credit cards defaulting. That's crazy. [01:23] Yeah. [01:23] That is really nuts. Almost 1 out of 10 default. Yeah, it's absolutely insane. But we have more auto loan. [01:30] debt in this country than credit cards too. Really? Which is even crazier because Americans, you know, they're big pickup trucks and everything.

But either way, I was doing that. Got my Nissan Altima and, you know, thinking I was sick driving around and going in debt for that, family debt, everything. [01:49] It was brutal, but it was the average American life. That's what people are going through every single day. [01:55] And I finally got a wake-up call. I just – I – [01:59] was sitting in my shitty apartment that I could barely afford and – [02:04] I realized... [02:06] The life I wanted to live just could not be sustained this way. I wanted to be a homeowner.

It's the American dream. Pick a fence, all that shit. Yeah. But there's no way to do it with maxed out credit cards, private student loans, public student loans, everything. It was a mess. So. [02:21] Got a sales job, just started grinding it out, paying off the debt, fully funded emergency fund. [02:27] That's what I try to teach people now, but [02:30] you know, [02:31] Again, the average American is kind of an idiot with money. [02:34] Which is fair. [02:35] Well, they're not informed, which is one of the things I think your content really helps, because a lot of people don't know what to do.

You're in debt. How the fuck do I get out of this? A lot of people, they know are in debt, so they don't have good advice. They're not going to get from their parents. They have to turn to somebody. [02:52] A lot of times, like, financial people online are very stiff, and they're not enjoyable to listen to. But you talk shit, and you're very vocal, and it's like, oh, okay, I get this guy. I can relate to him. Tell me what to do. So there's a lot of folks out there that connect with you because of that, I think.

Yeah, they call us the Jerry Springer of finance, which I like. I take it. I take the ownership. They meant it as a dig at first, but I take it because it's fun. People don't go into financial topics. [03:22] Because... [03:23] It's boring. Why are you clicking on a video of a dude just sitting at the camera? [03:28] you know, IRAs or this, no one's going to get into that. Personal finance class, like 40% of states, which is almost 40 states out of the 50 states, require a personal finance class now, which is big progress over the last decade.

But... [03:44] I mean, I was a piece of shit in high school. I'm sleeping through that class. Right. I'm not going to listen to things there. I could barely pass math. School is just boring. So people still aren't going to pick it up there. They... [03:58] want something a little more interesting to get into. And we give them that with the roasts, the dramas, the relationships of couples. Episodes are my favorite because there's always financial issues. [04:09] financial... [04:10] stresses in relationship and, um, [04:14] I don't know if that actually gets people into personal finances.

[04:19] That's the best. That's the best because we get millions of views per episode on all platforms. It's kind of a crime that they're not explaining to people when they're young and in high school how this could be a problem. They're trying to set you up for life, but they're not setting you up for one of the biggest problems that most people face. [04:39] Credit card debt and the big one, student loan debt because that's the one you can't get away from. And there's a lot of people that are just going, well, I guess I have to go to college.

And look, higher education is great. It's good to be educated. It's good to get an education. But if you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education that you aren't going to use at all, that might not be the best thing for you. And when you're fucking 18, you really don't know. You don't know what you want to do. And parents don't know anything either. No, they might be retarded. [05:09] You might have idiot parents. Well, no. The average parent in America is go to any college to get any degree and borrow whatever it takes.

Yeah. Because college is the answer to all. Because it used to be. Yeah. It used to be the way that you got a good paying job. [05:22] You get out of college and, hey, you've got a degree. Oh, you got your master's. Well, you're... Oh, where are you going to live? Where are you going to buy a house? Like, you're going to be set. What they don't tell you is that you are going to be saddled down with insane amounts of debt and then that debt compounds. It keeps going. So, like, I was reading this thing.

I mean, you can tell me about what the actual numbers are, but they were talking about the average actual debt. [05:49] that you owe, but what you wind up paying, what you actually wind up paying over the 20 years that it takes you to pay it off. It's fucking crazy. It's substantially higher than the initial loan. Part of it is laziness, too. People get on that 20-year payment plan or 40-year payment plan because they want to spend a little bit, just a little bit less right now. Because, I mean, it makes sense.

You get out of college. You want to get an apartment. You want to live it up. You want to go on nice dates and trips, all that good stuff. So you do the little minimum monthly payment. [06:19] I assume you have a mortgage, right? Do you have a mortgage? Yeah. Okay. If you took that 30-year mortgage, but you're like, okay, I want to pay a smaller amount now. So let's stretch it to 60 years. The interest in overall payment you're going to do is insane. Right. So- [06:33] The student loan, a public student loan, is actually a 10-year payment.

[06:36] That's the standard. It's a 10-year payment. You'll be done in 10. [06:40] But people stretch it to the 20 years. The repayment assistance under Trump, the RAP plan, that can be as little as 1% of your income on a monthly basis. [06:50] That'll never be paid off. Those people will have it forever. It'll be forgiven in 40 years, it says. We'll see because it's new. [07:00] But when people are doing that, they're going to have it forever. It's going to balloon, and then they're going to complain about it when they chose not to just take the standard 10-year plan.

[07:07] I saw an article about people with Social Security. So they're retired and their money, their Social Security money is getting docked. [07:16] Mm-hmm. [07:17] It's getting docked because they're taking money out of that to pay for your student loans. Yeah. I mean, I'm – That obviously didn't work out for you because you're – [07:25] literally in debt from that student loan while you're retired from life. Yeah. Which is fucking wild. It is, but I'll be candid. I'm starting to not have sympathy for the boomers. I'm really not. Really? Best job market ever.

Best stock market in the history of the world. Every single boomer, Gen X, whatever that's been on my show, they lived it up and spent all their money to live the lifestyle they wanted. And they didn't even set 10% aside a month. 10% aside. [07:55] jobs, they were set up for everything. If they just put 5% to 10% a month aside in the stock market that they had, [08:02] that they had. [08:04] They would be they would be multimillionaires. Most of them would be multimillionaires. [08:09] But instead, we're in a situation where I want a new BMW.

Yeah. They can't pay their student loans. Social Security, 2033. That's when the funds dry. So payments get cut by 25%. Yeah. 2033 is when the funds dry up for Social Security? Yeah. The actual fund that's sitting there. So every dollar that goes out is money that's coming in. That's projected 2033. Well, we have to pay for transgender migrants. Yeah. [08:35] This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Paramount+. UFC history is going down at the White House. It's the world's greatest fights on America's biggest stage. Watch UFC Freedom 250 at the White House live today only on Paramount+.

[08:54] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [09:06] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [09:20] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it.

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[10:04] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. [10:34] just wood and fire and flavor and what's truly wild is how easy it is just set the temp load the grill and let traeger handle the rest grill steaks smoke ribs even baked pizza all on one grill if you're into fire flavor and doing things right check out traeger grills really important some of them have back pain they need to be on social security forever yeah we just had a clip [11:04] do.

[11:04] Yeah, taxpayer-funded boobs. So that's nice. The way you explained it or the way she explained it was hilarious. You know, like something about how her body is priceless. So how much do they cost? They're free. Yeah. I can't blame her, though. I mean, the program is there, right? Of course. So I'd take it if I wanted some new tits. Of course. But it's crazy that we are. And, of course, when we filmed it, it was like two days after I wrote a $4 million income tax check, whatever, to the federal government.

Right. [11:34] Where does that money go? It's going to tits. Not funding proper Social Security. Well, we were talking before about how Gavin Newsom wouldn't do your podcast. Yes. But – [11:43] It's probably because like that kind of debt, when you think about like California's debt and California spending and the waste and potential fraud, I look at it like – [11:56] a garbage dump. Like someone saying, hey, go look into that garbage dump and clean it up. I'm like, oh, it's too much. And I think that's how most people look at it.

They look at it like [12:06] 24 billions missing for the homeless? How much money went to that rail? [12:11] That fucking high-speed rail, like, billions of dollars later, there's nothing done? Like, what are you doing? Which is insane because America, the leader of the world, should have incredible high-speed rail. Yeah. I want it. I want to go to Dallas, Houston, and a couple hours on a high-speed rail. Yeah. [12:25] Maybe Texas could do it, but just give California anything and they'll find a way to mess it up and lose all the money.

Well, this is like the rail one is crazy because like nothing's – but how much have they spent on the high-speed rail so far? [12:37] It's something bonkers. It's billions. Some insane amount of money, and nothing's been done. And there's this guy on YouTube. Do you remember the guy on YouTube, Jamie? [12:44] He's on Instagram, rather. The guy who's on Instagram who says in the same amount of time that it took California to not do that, this is what China's done. And it just over and over and over again, all the miles of high-speed rail they put in, all the this, all the that, like for the same amount of money that California spent, this is what could have been done.

It's crazy. Fucking nuts. Brightline's private. Spent an order of mid-teens of billions. [13:11] Mid-teens so far on the high-speed rail, roughly around $14 to $16 billion as of the mid-2020s. How much of it is done, Jamie? [13:21] How much of that rail's done? Well, some of it is actually getting close to done, I think. Oh, my God, amazing. To what, Bakersfield to... [13:30] Thank you. [13:31] Thank you, Delegat. [13:32] Yeah. [13:33] How much is completed? [13:36] 14 feet. [13:39] Very little. 119 miles are under active construction. Oh, 119 miles. Madeira near Bakersfield are under active construction.

What a great way to spend $14 billion. I bet the homeless people are pissed. You could have spent that money on us. And then once it's done, you'll get on the train. You'll have fair evaders. [13:59] People that just jumped over that are doing drugs on the train. [14:03] If you were 25 in 1990 and made an average S. salary for 40 years, saving 5% to 10% per month in the S&P 500, how much would they have now? They would have around $2 to $5 million, depending on exact assumptions. Starting with $21,000.

Holy 5%! That's insane! This is hard for me to... [14:23] We have the best disposable income in the history of the world. This is how crazy inflation is. The average salary in 1990 was $21,000. [14:34] That's crazy. Isn't that nuts? Imagine if someone told you you had to live off $21,000 today. You'd be like, oh, fuck. And yeah, even still, they could retire multimillionaires. [14:43] Even still, even with that. [14:45] It's beautiful. That is nuts if you know how to do it. But how would someone start doing something like that?

[14:50] honestly, low-cost index funds. I'm sure you've got a money guy, but for the average American, there's these target date retirement funds. So Fidelity or whatever you want to use, they have [15:02] Essentially, just pick like within the five years that you think you're going to retire. You just buy into that and it just it balances it for you. It goes more aggressive now and just more conservative. [15:13] by the time you retire. It's so easy. There's no reason most people... [15:17] aren't doing it, even in their 401k where it's free money matches and everything.

[15:21] It doesn't really make sense. So did you have to teach yourself all this stuff? [15:24] I mean, I'll be honest, pretty much any personal finance book or just like not even a class, just watch like a couple of YouTubers, the dry YouTubers that maybe no one's watching. I mean, you'll get it like this. It's super simple. That kind of stuff. It gets a little harder if you're thinking like, what kind of perfect insurances do I need? You know, if you're trying to individually stock trade, you know, it scares me, though.

[15:54] are doing their portfolio trades based on the podcast they're still listening to. That's what's scary to me. What? Really? Yeah, 60%. Which podcasts are giving them advice? Any personal finance. Any personal finance. No, even on like Kik or Twitch, there's streamers. I'll log on in the morning, just see who's streaming. And some of the top viewed people are day traders. Really? With like 25,000 concurrent viewers that are getting hundreds of thousands of views a day. [16:24] Are they just essentially letting people know what they're trading and what to trade?

Exactly. It's crazy. So they're following along. So you can basically just mirror them. So you can say, okay, BlackRock. Whatever you want to buy, whatever they're doing, sort of like the Pelosi stock trader. Yes, which I bought into the Pelosi fund. Yeah? It's doing really well. I bet it is. Yeah. I only put $1,000 in there. I was a little scared, but it's doing really well. It's beating my own money, guys. [16:52] It's kind of hilarious. [16:54] knows what she's doing or her people knows what she's doing. [16:57] Yeah, someone knows something.

Yeah, they know something. It's just, it's crazy that it's legal. [17:04] It's crazy that you could know, oh, we're going to do this big deal with AI chips. And so NVIDIA makes AI chips. I'm just going to buy a shit ton of NVIDIA stock. And then, boom, we pass this thing. Hey, look at that. 500% increase. Whee! I think my thousand's up like 20%, 30% in just a couple months. It's crazy. It's crazy. S&P 500, what he searched up, averages 10% a year. So it's crazy. It is nuts. It's nuts.

[17:33] What are the laws? [17:37] It's like you could clearly follow her. But what are the laws in terms of like what she's allowed to do? [17:44] Like, how much information is she allowed to have? Yeah. [17:48] Well, that's what's hard to track, right? The insider trading is hard to track. They're getting into that shit with Kalshi now. [17:54] Right. You know, some of the people that were in the operation for Maduro in Venezuela. [17:59] They're getting in trouble. George Santos. You know George. Did you ever have George Santos? No, but he's hilarious.

Yes, he's hilarious. But big investigation just opened up yesterday or today. Oh, no. He just got a pardon for something else. He went on Instagram or something, and he was like, hey, guys, I'm going to 100% be at the State of the Union. [18:20] A hundred percent. I'm going to be there. Here's my seat. And then he immediately bet that he will not be at the State of the Union. So four people close to him have been... [18:29] Working with the FTC on that. Oh, my God. He's retarded. Yeah. That's so dumb.

After a pardon and everything. That's so dumb, bro. You got free. [18:37] And you're fun. You should just do a podcast. Yes. He could make millions doing a podcast. Yeah. He's been on other podcasts. He's good. He would be great. He's a sassy guy. He's perfect for the camera. Sassy, fun, smart, talks a lot of shit. He would be great as a host of a podcast. Don't fucking do scams like that. Yeah, insider trading. So I guess that's his future now. We had a – was it Polymarket? What was it where they had odds on things that we do and what we're going to say and what guests we're going to have on?

Probably both of them. Probably both of them. I don't look into it. [19:07] We looked, I said, Jamie, shut that fucking laptop and do not open that website ever again. Because, like, you could do it. Like, we could. I kind of want to. Anybody could. I'm not going to, but I kind of want to bet that I would be on here. Right. Like, what are the odds? Like, you could probably bet a substantial amount of money through some fucking offshore account. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home.

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Right now, you can get 50% off your new system by visiting com slash rogan. That's half off at com slash rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Both Pelosi, who knows? I mean, other people in Congress, they want to pass something where they can only invest in like large cap index funds like the S&P 500. Mm-hmm. [20:36] They're not passing it. They don't care. They don't care. It's also it's completely bipartisan. You know, it's not like it's Nancy Pelosi is the scapegoat. She's the one that everybody beats on. But if you look at it, it's red, blue across the line.

They're all doing it. Yes. They're all trading. They're all making shit tons of money. They all go into Congress broke. They all come out rich as fuck. Yes. And they get $100,000 a year. Yeah. Fuck off. Fuck off. It's crazy. What is the pull up the Santos case? Find out what's happening. [21:05] I'm fascinated by that. I mean, honestly, he, I guess it was yesterday. He was contacted by NPR. He was contacted by NPR? He was like, it's news to me. [21:17] He sends news to him. There you go. [21:19] Reached by NPR.

[21:20] Well, that's news to me when asked about the insider trading probe underway, this activity on Calci. Santos said, I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. When the NPR questioned whether he had a Calci account. He wanted to say the co-founder of Calci, Luana Lopez Lara, is a fellow Brazilian whom he personally knows. He said he would call her to get to the bottom whether an investigation had been launched. Santos promised to update NPR on how the call went. He did not respond to NPR's follow-up messages. [21:50] The thing is like he had some crazy background discrepancies that they deviated from the truth slightly.

[22:00] Right. There was some other stuff. It wasn't just this. Like, that's what the guy does. Yeah. But meanwhile, he's in this amazing position. He's got a name. He's famous. People like him. He's fun. And he got a fucking pardon from the president. It's crazy. Like, bro, straight and narrow. Yeah. Get yourself a podcast. Get yourself a YouTube show. You would make some real money. He would make some real money. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with that guy, man. I really don't. I think he's just trying to get that.

Get rich quick. Let's see. [22:30] Jamie put it into perplexity, and it says he built much of his public persona on false claims about his biography, finances, and identity, and later also faced criminal charges tied to deception and fraud. [22:41] Damn. He falsely claimed degrees from Baruch. Is that how you say it? [22:46] Baruch College in NYU, even saying he graduated summa cum laude, although he has no college degree. [22:56] He said he worked at Goldman Sachs and Citigroup. Both firms reported no record of him as an employee. Financing career, Santos portrayed himself as a seasoned Wall Street financier and successful businessman, [23:16] clear sources of wealth.

[23:18] He claimed Jewish heritage and that his grandparents were Holocaust refugees, later backing off saying he was Jew-ish after his maternal family background, not actually Jewish. He also made disputed statements about being a landlord with a family real estate portfolio and about his mother's death being related to 9-11, although she died in 2016. That's crazy. What a king. I love him. There's a bunch more. [23:48] and dogs, but reporters found no records of such an organization. Cultural and lifestyle claims. Brazilian drag performer shared photos of Santos in drag. He initially denied ever doing drag and later minimized it as just dressing up for a festival when he was young.

[24:06] That's a funny dude. [24:08] Thank you. [24:09] He's a funny dude. Back to jail. Yeah, he's fucked. He was sentenced to 87 months in prison for wire fraud and aggravated identity theft, with officials describing his conduct as a mountain of lies, theft, and fraud. His short house tenure ended with expulsion after an ethics report detailed misuse of campaign funds, including personal luxury spending. Fucking dude, you could have been in jail for 87 months. Yeah. [24:37] And you got out. [24:39] And you blew it all on a bet. Like, how much did he make off the bet?

I don't know. [24:45] It's very fresh, this story. I heard it on the news this morning. [24:49] I don't think it said specifically how much. [24:53] Because it was more about what he did. So I don't think they tracked his account. I don't think they've announced how much he bet on it. [25:00] And that is hard to trace, which is why I think he did it. Right. I mean, those platforms are hard to trace. Yeah. [25:07] I think Polymarket, I think they're specifically like even just in crypto on the back end.

Oh, really? If I'm not mistaken, or in those similar kind of exchanges. [25:17] So... [25:17] Like, it's hard to track. [25:20] So it's a good place to insider trade, and he made some money, but I think – I listened on the news this morning. It said four people close to him reported him, though. [25:30] Well, when you're that kind of a fraudster, allegedly, and that kind of a liar, allegedly, you tend to not have close friends that you could trust. Yeah. [25:40] You'd probably fuck those guys over too. Yeah. If they're turning them in, allegedly.

[25:45] I think it's funny though because it's like it's really unfortunate because he had a real opportunity. [25:51] Like he became a public person. [25:54] Maybe he still does. Maybe he'll get another pardon. [25:56] No. I doubt it. I doubt it'll [25:59] give him a pardon for that. I don't know why I got the first one. He'd probably be so mad if Trump [26:02] got a phone call from him asking for a second pardon. [26:05] Why did he get the first one? Do you know? I have no idea. [26:08] Let's find out.

Let's ask. Why did he get pardoned? [26:14] There's a lot of people that got pardoned where you're like, wait, what? Yeah. [26:18] The Biden thing was nuts. [26:19] Where they pardon more people than ever? [26:22] ever, any president ever. [26:25] How much of it was done with the auto pen? So he's literally like... [26:30] Barely there, right? We all agree. At this point, I mean, there used to be disputes. Oh, yeah, that was a stutter. We all now say he was barely there. So someone else was doing that. So what's the legality of that?

What is the legality of selling pardons? And the preemptive pardons, too. Oh, those are nuts. How about for crimes that just don't exist? You're not being accused of anything. What did you do? He did not receive a pardon. His prison sentence was commuted by President Donald Trump, which led him out of prison early, [27:00] as convictions in place. [27:02] Interesting. In October 25th, October of 2025, rather, Trump signed a commutation with for former representative George Santos ordering his immediate release from federal prison where he was serving a roughly seven year sentence for fraud and identity theft.

Commutation sortens or shortens or eliminates the punishment, but does not erase the conviction or declare the person innocent, unlike a full pardon. [27:27] Trump said Santos had been horribly mistreated. [27:31] And it spent long periods in solitary confinement, which Trump framed as too harsh for a rogue politician compared with others. Commentators widely interpret the move as fitting Trump's pattern of granting clemency to political allies and loyalists rather than based on traditional justice system criteria. [27:50] I mean, look, it's a weird thing that you could do. [27:52] The fact that you're the president and you could just say, what did you do?

You robbed a bank? Eh, you're sorry. Get free. Meanwhile, if you don't know the president, you're in the bank forever. That is a crazy loophole that still exists that makes no logical sense whatsoever. Yeah. You just help people around you or your kids. [28:11] Whatever it is. Or a friend of a friend. Yeah. Yeah. [28:14] Donation. Yeah, somebody hooks you up, and you know them, and their cousin needs a thing, and there's a guy, and maybe he did it, maybe he didn't. You can get him out. I mean, I'd pardon a lot of people.

I would pardon a fuckload of people. I get it. Well, we've, on this show, we've done a lot of work with my friend Josh Dubin, who used to work with the Innocent Project. And now he works with the Ike Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice, or Criminal Justice. [28:44] There's a shit ton of them. And you find out that there's these rogue politicians or rather prosecutors, these rogue prosecutors and rogue DAs and rogue cops that just have – [28:55] Fucking dozens and dozens of bullshit convictions where they fucking hid evidence. They absolutely knew the person that they arrested was the wrong person.

They don't care. They just want a conviction. They just they don't care. They they they lose their ability to give a fuck whether or not the person that's in jail is actually guilty of that crime. And they justify it in their head while he was a drug dealer or he was a this or he was a that. And he fucked off his whole life. We're better off with him being in jail. [29:25] WEEK. [29:25] You take that... [29:27] And then you compare it with like every violent crime that has happened in Austin this year are people that have been repeat...

[29:34] criminals just let loose. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so locking up people that don't deserve it. And then a guy off a 360 here in Austin killed his family, and he was let out a couple times before. Yeah. [29:45] Yeah. Yeah. I'm not a fan of that. That's a different thing. You know, so you got both things, right? You have these very liberal DAs who are letting people go if they think that they're, you know, from a protected class or if they think – [30:03] They've experienced racism or they've experienced some sort of an unjust situation as a youth and they need a second chance and the system is racist.

And so you let them loose. But you've got people that – like the guy that pushed someone in front of the train in New York City had been arrested over a dozen times. Like the fuck are you doing? And there's some kind of crazy statistic. [30:26] particularly about New York City, [30:28] … that something like 50 percent of all the crimes are by a very small number of people. Oh, yeah. A very small number of repeat people. And if those people were in jail… [30:38] literally crime, you could half violent crime, half robberies.

[30:42] Half. [30:43] 50%. It's crazy. I saw some people do an analysis of the kind of content and news we were getting in 2015 by people that I watched and liked, like the Vlogbrothers and stuff on YouTube, where everything was about the prison industrial complex, which I'm not saying is not a thing. There's definitely issues, for sure. But it was about how... [31:06] We have the highest prison population and stuff. And again, these aren't untrue things. But it started putting out all this unchallenged information about how we are too critical in this country and too punishing.

And then what you started to see after that was the politicians like the DA here, the DA in San Francisco coming around the 2020 stuff after the George Floyd situation and everything. [31:36] challenges. So the DA in Chicago that raised... [31:39] I think the theft for felony threshold from like $50 to $500 or something. It was something crazy. So all that information- I think it was $900. Crazy. All that information that we were all consuming was just unchallenged. All you had was like a boomer on Fox News just yelling. That was like the only challenge to that kind of information that was coming around 2015.

And I was a fan of that information. I ate it alive. Um, [32:08] And then... [32:09] Now we're facing the consequences of it. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. Well, it's also you find out that there's – [32:16] There's sort of a dark element to it all, and there's people like George Soros and the Open Society Foundation, and what they do is they – [32:25] they [32:26] invest their money in politicians. They invest their money in DAs and they get like the most liberal, the most, you know, [32:33] progressive, the one who's going to do the most damage to the city in terms of crime.

And then he funds the next guy to compete against him, who's further left. [32:44] And they go further and further and further until you've got people like the guy they got rid of in Los Angeles that was just violent crimes. This guy pulled a knife on a sheriff who was trying to attack a sheriff with a knife. And then they let him out. And then he hacked up some guy with his kids with a fucking machete in Malibu or in Santa Monica, wherever it was. It's like you hear these stories and you're like, this is fucking insane.

When someone's a violent criminal and they commit violent crimes, they need to go to jail. [33:14] violent crimes. So why are these prosecutors doing this? Why are these DAs doing this? Are they doing it because they want to? [33:21] Do they want society to fail? Well, some of them do. Some of them actually do. They would like... [33:28] our civilization to fall. They think America is evil. [33:32] Interesting. [33:33] That's interesting. Elon's deep into it, man. I've had conversations with him about it and he explains the way Soros does it and that it's actually – it's a great investment because like to invest in politicians in terms of like to spend money on a campaign for the president, it's a lot of money.

Spend money on a campaign for becoming the governor, that's a lot of money. But a local DA – [33:53] Not that much money. And for a great return on your investment, you can fucking tank a city by having one insane DA. [34:01] Like who was the guy in LA they got rid of? Was it Garza? Was that what his name? [34:05] This guy was fucking out there. I mean, he was releasing all kinds of crazy criminals. And you're like, why would you do that? And there was a video. There was a podcast that I was listening to where there was a former gang leader who was leaving Los Angeles because he was saying it's getting too dangerous.

And they're about to release thousands of people from prison because the prisons are overcrowded. So they're releasing thousands and thousands of violent offenders. And he was sounding the alarm for it for a gang leader. [34:35] is too hot we got to get out of here. [34:37] This episode is brought to you by Dodge. The new Dodge Charger scat pack is built for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin-turbo six-pack gas engine. All gas, no mercy, 550 horsepower, 0 to 60 in just 3.9 seconds, and a top speed of 177 miles an hour.

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com and use the promo code ROGAN40. Limited time offer, com, promo code ROGAN40. Rules and restrictions apply. [36:42] That's the primary reason I'm against the things like all the funding for the train in California. Specifically because – [36:51] I actually really like I'm a big advocate for public infrastructure and even like dense living. Like I love when you visit a place that is like dense and really cool, lots of community. I love that. [37:02] We can't do that because we have these people that just let the violent criminals out. They let people hop fairs in San Francisco and smoke meth on the train.

I want trains. I want so. I wish Austin had an incredible subway system. We can't if we keep letting out these horrible people that will be everywhere. These people with mental health issues that we won't put in a place that is more humane than letting them sleep on the street. We'll let them crash at the anytime. [37:32] a bus stop and we're just like we would never ride a bus here. Right. [37:37] Because just every I've seen people light up a meth pipe on South Lamar at a bus stop. And there's just people that are just sleeping there and you can't even wait for a bus.

I want these nice things. We can have these nice things, but we can't if we just let people overrun them. [37:55] So what do you think if you had to put on your tinfoil hat? [37:59] and really... [38:01] Trying to make an assessment of like why this is happening. Like why are they allowing this? Why hasn't no one done what is the sensible thing? Protect the peaceful, taxpaying, kind and compassionate people of the city from violent criminals. Why are you allowing these people to continually be released? Why are you so soft on crime?

Like what are you doing? [38:24] Yeah. Well, honestly... [38:26] Definitely not as deep as Musk is on this, but for me, I really think it's this political capture. When you get in those ecosystems now online, you can get on TikTok, and it'll immediately figure out within three minutes what group to put you in, and then you hear no other perspective. And we know young generations, especially young women, they've moved more politically extreme than any other generation in the history of the United States. [38:52] And they've moved to the left, you know, left, right.

I don't care, but they've moved to the extreme version. And when you're politically captured, you then vote for the people that are more politically captured on that left and vote. [39:05] There is a lot of that moral masturbation that comes with it. [39:08] It sounds good. We had all the information around 2015, 2020, that... [39:14] Any that... [39:15] Anyone that's going to prison is just for having weed or anything like that. We're just evil as a society. Right. And when you get that and you start more masturbating about everything, it sounds right.

Like things like rent control. It sounds good. It sounds like the moral thing to do. Not letting many – not just putting people in prison for a long time. Sounds nice. Sounds nice. Not kicking people off the street when they're homeless. It sounds nice. Not doing those sweeps. It sounds nice. Yeah. [39:45] And people that are politically captured online, especially in our algorithms, this is so brutal. And they just vote for that on repeat because they hear no alternative perspective. And even still, it's so politically captured now where it's like if you disagree with 1%, you're a Nazi and you're – get out of here.

You're not one of us. It's pretty brutal. I always considered myself – [40:07] like pretty left of center, actually. I'm probably more centrist now. Economically, I've moved a little to the right over the past few years, but – [40:15] Um, [40:16] But compared to the people surrounding me in college that were definitely like far left because, you know, music school and all that stuff, but they were still algorithmically captured. [40:24] I was borderline like a Nazi because I just didn't agree with everything. Yeah. You know, maybe – [40:30] The taxes shouldn't fund tits.

Right. I'm sorry if I'm a Nazi for that. [40:35] We have too much bloat. [40:37] I think you're absolutely correct about the political capture, but I think it's also manipulated. [40:42] And that still doesn't account for who's funding the DA campaigns. [40:46] And the fact that Soros does get involved in these kind of things and not just him but others as well. [40:51] Do you think he truly believes in it, though? Like, this is the right thing. Like, we have a prison issue. No. No. [40:58] No, I don't think so.

No, I think he banks on it. I think, I mean, he's made money off of collapsing societies. It's like he's an interesting character. He seems like. [41:08] completely immune to the consequences like [41:11] spiritually of what he does. Fair enough. It's a flaw of mine, I guess. I just assume the worst until I see the best. So I just... That's not a flaw. That's you're a good person. Well, it's fucked me over a lot of times. But like, I mean, I... [41:24] I just assume that even if I disagree with them politically, they think it actually has a positive outcome.

Yeah. I want to think that. [41:31] I used to. [41:32] I think now more they want to pretend that they think it's going to have a positive outcome because it justifies what they're doing. And then it also – I think with politicians, it's really a self-serving thing. They just know that people are politically captured, so they say the things that the politicians – like listen. Gavin Newsom in any other world could easily be a Republican. If we were living in the 1990s, he might have been. This is nonsense. His perspectives on things is about personal gain.

[42:02] That's why when he addresses any of the issues with California, he always goes into this preplanned speech about we're the biggest tech sector. We're number four in the world of the world economy starts moving his hands around. He's got a little fucking voodoo dance. He does. [42:16] Because... [42:16] It's not really about addressing the situation. It's about framing it in a very positive way so that he looks good, so that he moves forward. That's what he wants to do. And you're starting to see him come closer to center now being opposed to the billionaire tax and other things like that in California.

Well, because they're fucking leaving. They're leaving, but a lot of the – everyone running for governor. [42:38] on the left was okay with the billionaire tax, but since he's going to be eyeing for president, he needs to be a little more sane. And, I mean, pretty much every independent report says, yes, it'll capture tens of billions quickly, but it'll lose hundreds of billions over the long term because... [42:52] The wealth that you tax on a yearly basis is just leaving. It's not just that. It's a slippery slope. It might start with billionaires.

It will work its way down. It will work its way down to thousandaires. Yeah, taxes typically have. They always do. And also they have the ability to change the goalposts once the bill gets passed. The bill gets passed. They don't have to have you vote on who gets taxed more. And we can just decide. Like Bernie Sanders used to rally against millionaires. It always would be millionaires. [43:22] the problem. They're not paying. And now it's billionaires. Why? Because Bernie's a millionaire now. It's adorable. [43:31] It's adorable in its transparency. But like these fucking kids don't understand.

Like there's a giant number of kids today that come out of the university system that think that communism is the solution. Oh, yeah. Genuinely believe in it. [43:46] It's very scary because you're literally saying, first of all, how does that get enforced? How do you think it gets enforced? How does it work? Who tells the people that they have to give up their money and their property? The fucking government. Then who's holding the military and the property? The government. Oh, so the people with the guns. Oh, so you want a military dictatorship essentially to be able to control all the finances, who owns a home, who owns a farm, where the food comes from.

You think that's a good idea? It's time for works. [44:16] ever there's not even a mildly decent version of it out there they can go well they're not as good as us but it's not not too bad i'll give them some credit i'll give them a little a little bit of grace uh sure i think they're a little retarded but i'll give them some grace [44:32] A lot of times when you ask them, those people that come out of college, what communism is, they think it's like Scandinavia. [44:38] And socialism, that's how they define it.

Not like very literal. And those aren't socialist countries anyway. All their programs are funded on capitalism. It's taxed through the income that's earned on capitalism. So I'll give them that grace. But no, it is true that many people are viewing communism in general as more favorable. And we know college is also very politically captured. It's very politically captured. That's the danger. [45:08] of the world is, like right out of school, by people who don't live in the world. [45:13] That's what's so fucked. Like these people that are teaching, they've essentially gone from being a student to working in a university to being a professor.

That's their entire life. And they're telling you about the outside world. They're literally prisoners who are telling you about things that are going on in places where they never go and never visit. Like you're not living in the real world. Like your concepts about socialism and communism that you're teaching these kids. [45:43] world. You didn't start a business. You don't you don't get fired by one company and hired by another. And you try to build your own small business. You're not doing that. You're just teaching concepts and ideas, which most people that have done those things that have jobs that have started a business think are fucking ridiculous and don't work and have never worked anywhere in human history.

And yet that's how you're employed to shape young minds. That's [46:13] and they look at the political identification or doing pollings on different departments. And they've had like sociology departments where it's – [46:23] like 300 Democrats and one registered Republican. But again, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a left wing position or viewpoint. I'm not saying that at all. Again, I agree with a lot on the left. But when when something where you're spending four years has that ratio, I'm [46:39] It's going to get overwhelming in terms of the information you get without any alternative perspective.

[46:47] I was in college again in music school, and this was the amount of just craziness that I was around, even though I'm slightly... [46:55] have those left-wing social positions, I'm vehemently against that woke shit because when I was there... [47:03] We had a visiting professor talking about music. She played a piece of music and she was like, OK, give me your feedback. I just want honest feedback on this. And I didn't really like it. I was like, you know, to me, I can't really describe it, but it's a little weird.

Then I had to listen to a 10 minute lecture about how the word weird has been used for colonialism and slavery and imprisoning people and murdering people of color and people who have transitioned and stuff because I said the word weird. [47:28] it's politically captured. And there wasn't [47:32] No one would speak up against that. No one would speak up against that. I don't know if there are other normal people around me, other professors that didn't believe what she was saying, but no one was willing to because you'd be ostracized.

Right. You'd be fucked. You wouldn't have friends there. Exactly. [47:47] So when the ratio is something like 500 to 1 in certain departments, you're never going to get an alternative viewpoint. So it makes sense that it gets more extreme. [47:55] It doesn't even have to be 50-50, but 500 to 1 is crazy. 200 to 1 is crazy, even 50 to 1. Yeah, for sure. Well, it's something. You need to have alternative perspectives from respected people. They need to be able to communicate with each other. That's what the real diversity is all about.

It's not just like where your fucking ancestors came from. It's also diversity of thought, which is crazy that the people that are really into diversity reject completely diversity of thought. [48:25] of you could possibly have a point is insane. Now, I'm with you socially. I'm very liberal. Financially, I agree with you. I tend to swing more to the right because I believe in human nature. My problem with the concept of socialism, it goes against human nature. People – [48:45] If you're going to punish people who are ambitious and reward people who are not, that's not good.

That's just not good for human nature. It rewards laziness. It rewards people that feel entitled. It rewards this idea that the government, that they should pay, that these rich people should pay because they've done well. Well, why aren't you doing well is a question that doesn't get asked to these people. [49:10] Well, the question of taxes is getting completely turned on its head anyway. I've never been opposed to paying more in taxes if it went to something good. Right. But people are no longer proposing it to go to good things when you see it advocated online.

Now it's that person has a lot of money. Let's take some. Yes, exactly. And it's also very abstract. Like they should pay their fair share. Shouldn't we figure out where the fucking money is going first? [49:40] mysterious ways you're not concerned with that but instead you want to take money from this guy who's got this giant penthouse like that ken griffin thing where mom donnie's standing in front of like yes it's crazy this guy has a 250 million dollar you're doxing his fucking house crazy which is stupid because now he's just going to take all the wealth from new york and go down to miami i know but it's a weird thing where some of these you know democrat socialist mayors they they don't seem to think that that's a problem like that lady in seattle is like well if they

[50:10] Okay, I actually like Vandami as a person. I really dislike the lady in Seattle as a person. She seems like a bad person. Just laughing at people leaving, laughing at wealth leaving, laughing at jobs leaving. They're not even leaving Washington. They're going to Bellevue. They're going across the river where Microsoft and everyone's building new campuses. They're leaving Seattle and she's laughing at it. They have the second highest downtown office vacancy in the country and she's laughing at it. [50:40] Well, she's also never had a job. [50:43] Which is crazy.

Imagine your first job, you're the head of a fucking city. [51:01] Have you seen that? Yeah. Which is like, okay, communism. You're going to capture real estate. [51:07] The farm is spending too much money for a tomato. We're going to take over the farm. Like this is North Korea. This is how it started. Give us your farm. We'll feed everybody. Oh, great. [51:18] I'd love to see that survive the courts, but it's a crazy idea that – [51:24] Or even there. And of course, those those bad landlords that we're talking about, they're usually like rent controlled units where they can't bring in enough money to even maintain the units.

[51:32] So then the units fall. I mean the percentage of units, I don't know, you can look up the exact number, but that are just sitting empty because there's not enough money to put into them just to bring them up to date is crazy. This is the most populated city in the country. People need places to live. And we have a system right now where people can't even bring units to rent up to date for people to live in. So there's like – [51:54] 10% of rent controlled units or something that are, or not rent controlled, but [51:59] But it's brutal.

It's an absolute brutal system. It's performative in the end. Well, there's also this weird thing that goes on in New York City with really expensive apartments where people buy them and never live in them because it's just a place to put your money. Which we do too. We do that overseas in Europe. Oh, do we? Yeah, yeah. American Billion. Billionaires all over the world do that because real estate is just a good protective asset. It's a good way to preserve. But no, I mean, it makes sense. And places like Texas have banned people from China doing that.

[52:27] But it makes sense from a well... [52:29] From preservation standpoint, but it's shitty for the residents of the city. So, I mean, I think it would be fair for them to outlaw that if they wanted to. Kevin O'Leary's counter perspective, though, have you heard his? So on that, and I don't know if I agree with it, but it's worth considering, is that, okay, but they're there. They buy it. They don't go there, so they're not using any public services. Right. But they pay the property taxes into the public services, so they're just a net contributor.

Right. [52:53] That does make sense. Yeah, but it is also a place that someone could live that no one is living. Right, but when you're talking about these $100 million apartments, like the Ken Griffith spot, like – [53:03] Guess what? You're never going to live there. Yeah, and they wouldn't have built it if they couldn't sell it to people like him anyway. Exactly. That's the whole reason why they invested in the property in the first place. There's that one that I was looking at. They built this kooky fucking tower that's like a popsicle stick.

Have you ever seen that one? And it's waving in the wind now, and it makes weird noises, and no one wants to live in it. I think some glass falls from it too, right? Really? I think so. The one right off Central Park?