Paula Pell

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer? [00:09] Oof. Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. [00:29]. [00:34] Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. So excited about our guest today.

It is Paula Pell, the great performer, writer, actress. She wrote on SNL. You may have seen her on AP Bio and Girls 5 Eva and the Burbs out now. But Paula and I have loved and known each other for a very long time, and we are going to talk about so much good stuff. We're going to talk about how fun it is to harmonize. We're going to talk about Paula's years performing [01:04] going to talk about how she really enjoys writing Joyful Losers and how that got her through some real complicated times at SNL.

So we are going to get into it. But before we do, there's so many people that want to talk about how great Paula is. I could interview 12 of them right now. But we have someone who is kind of a new friend and a new fan of Paula's and who is working with her currently [01:34] Kim Kardashian, otherwise known as Kim Kardashian. Kim, Kim Kardashian, can you hear me? [01:46] This episode is presented by Hilton. Guys, you know what vacation perfectionism is? It's the pressure to get your family's summer vacation booked and make it perfect and memorable.

Stressful, right? Don't worry, because the team at Hilton takes care of what matters so you can exhale and disconnect. They've got over 9,000 hotels around the world, including amazing resorts and all-inclusive options. So you'll definitely find the stay that you're looking for. When you want your summer vacation to feel like a vacation, it matters where you stay. [02:16] Book now at com. Hilton for this day. [02:31] Nice to see you. It's really nice to see you. Thank you so much for doing this on a Saturday. Of course. I just left the gym, so I look a little bit of a mess, but it is what it is.

What did you do in your workout? [02:43] I do strength training. Yeah. So I have this like crazy bodybuilder trainer and we do lots of like, today we did lower body. So. [02:54] squats and walking lunges. I'm feeling you because I know I have to up my weight stuff for like bone density. Do you ever get a DEXA scan? [03:06] No, tell me about it. I actually know a portable DEXA scan person that comes in a, in a van and you lay down and each one of my sisters and my mom, we all live in the same gated community.

So we have, um, the van drive by and we all jump in the van and you just lay down and it scans your body maybe like three minutes. And, um, [03:32] I told you all about your bone density. Ooh, I love that. You know, we do it once a year and just to make sure that you're still got it going on and you still have all of the bone density that is necessary. I mean, it feels like something that our moms did not know about or talk about. At all. I know.

I feel like... Creatine intake. I know. There's so much stuff that we have to now take. It's a lot. Supplements. [04:02] 35 supplements a day. Cam! [04:05] I spread them out three times a day and I thought, okay, I can't do this fish oil right now, like anymore. I have like pill fatigue. I have to stop these fish oil and I got my blood work and it was so evident that I stopped and I had to start again. But it is tough to take fish oil because you, when you take it, you...

[04:24] You like taste it for a long time. The pills are just so big. I know. I wish there was like an IV drip I could do every day and I would just do it on my way to work. I'm sure there is a port of another guy in a van who can follow your car. Yeah. Well, you are on your way to work. [04:43] on The Fifth Wheel, which is the movie that you're in, starring in that Paula Pell wrote. And I'm so, I was, thank you so much for talking about her today, because to me, I'm [04:55] People that love Paula...

[04:58] are people that love comedy. I have been fascinated by the comedy world and the people that I've been so blessed to meet over the last few years. And Paula, anytime I mention her name, I get a text back, just genius. Yes. Just how we met was so funny and it was so quick and fast. And it was maybe a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago here filming a [05:27] a movie that we had an idea like the first time we spoke. And it was really crazy that someone wanted to connect us and thought this would be a really fun project.

Would you guys ever want to Kim, would you want to do a comedy and Paula, would you want to write it? [05:43] And we got on the phone and... [05:46] She hung up, called right back within an hour with the whole idea. Wow. And she's incredible. We had the funniest day yesterday on set. What happened? So it's like Nikki Glaser, Fortune Theimster and I in this one show. [06:04] scene and I won't say what's going on, but Kristen Wiig is doing something perfect. Oh, funny. Perfect. And we're supposed to be laughing and reacting.

[06:14] I couldn't control myself, like almost peed my pants. [06:18] Like just every single time, just everything. [06:23] Being in a room with people that you... [06:26] want to be professional. You want to get the job done and you just can't control yourself because it's so funny. I can tell you are a big comedy fan. I've now gotten to meet some of the people that I've always looked up to and thought were so amazing and [06:43] It's just such a, it's such a community where everyone supports each other so much.

And I experienced that for my, the first time when I hosted SNL. [06:53] It was like this group chat of so many comedians and, [06:58] trying to help with my bit and with my monologue. And it was so fascinating just to see everyone's minds and to see how supportive everyone was and showed up that night when I was doing that. And, [07:13] rooting for you, like everyone genuinely [07:16] roots for each other. And I've never seen that kind of connection and bond. And, [07:22] in any other genre in the entertainment business.

[07:25] Okay, so you said you had a couple of questions for Paula today. What are your thoughts for what we should ask her? I wanted to know... [07:34] when she was coming up with this idea for this film, [07:38] Is this everything that she thought it would be? [07:42] To me, it feels like one of those magical, like there's a little extra magic in it that like we all knew. And I think this is how it was envisioned. [07:52] But... [07:53] I feel like there's just a little extra fairy dust over this.

Projects. [07:59] And it feels really good. And does she feel that fairy dust too? And why is it important to you to ask that question to her? Why do you want her to, why do you wonder if she's feeling that too? Because it's such a... [08:14] exciting time and an exciting feeling. [08:18] And it just feels like I just want to know if she feels the same way that I feel about it because I am really excited and passionate about it. [08:27] And I don't know, maybe this maybe she's so accomplished and there's so many projects and this is just one of those.

And like, I think the exact opposite, like, I think the best thing about Paula is that she has this. [08:40] She creates momentum. She has energy, which is what you're talking about. As you know, you need to get stuff started. But she also, I think one of the best things about her is she doesn't forget that. [08:54] the people in any process, like people are as important to her as outcome. And, [09:01] She's a people person. You know, she really wants to connect in that way, like with through the stuff that she makes.

And so that magic-y, sparkly stuff that you're feeling among each other, like, you're [09:12] I think that's kind of if I was to say something about her, like she is. [09:17] I think she loves that stuff. I think that's why she's still... [09:21] Doing it. Yeah. Yeah. [09:23] I just, I hope she feels the magic because I feel it. And then anything else? I always wanted to know, is there ever someone that you just can't control yourself? You just see them in action and you just can't stop laughing like you physically can't.

[09:42] can't get through [09:44] a scene or something because you find them so hysterical. And I love, I love watching SNL. And when you're trying to get through, you know, [09:56] As a bit and you just say break and they just start laughing like to me that's when I really start laughing because I can feel how much fun it is and I can see that they're having such a hard time getting through it because they just want to laugh so fast. [10:12] so hard. And I just wonder, like, who is that person for you?

You know, like I said, when we started, I feel like anybody who loves Paula's comedy, to me, means that they know comedy. So I'm I really really means a lot that you got on a zoom today. Thank you. Of course. She's going to be so thrilled and excited that we talked. Okay, thanks so much. [10:36] Have fun this weekend. Thank you. Nice talking to you. Bye. [10:41] This episode is brought to you by Visible. Ah, spring is in the air, which means it's time for some spring cleaning. We're decluttering the closets and finally tossing those mystery cords.

But while you're cleaning out the junk drawer, take a look at your wireless bill. Don't fall for wireless traps, surprise fees, confusing bills, and empty promises. Join Visible and cut out the nonsense. [11:11] cost just $25 a month, taxes and fees included. It's everything you need and nothing you don't. Finish your spring cleaning by ditching the carrier clutter. Head to com and get started. Terms apply. See com for plan features and network management details. [11:29] Paula Pell, you look fantastic. Thank you. I've got a full denim suit on. Is that a power lesbian [11:41] one of the guests that we've talked about the most with other guests.

Like I was thinking today about [11:46] Us talking, it was like, oh, we've brought up, I mean, I'm so lucky that we just get to talk to our friends on this. It's the dream job, isn't it? It is. [11:56] It's the dream job. And the hours. [12:00] And wouldn't it be fun to have two people doing it? You know, two blondes. It could be called two blondes having a good hang. I mean, I'm not trying to infiltrate your good thing. But we'll talk. [12:30] five years, they know you. And I just want to say, I want to start by saying something I say to people all the time, which is Paula Pell is...

[12:38] it. [12:38] the funniest people's favorite person. And you are often in a room of hugely funny people. You're usually the funniest. Thank you. I'm very competitive that way. I know. I like that. I like, you are a little competitive. I like that. And, um, and in a good way. And also, um, [12:55] Anybody who likes you and likes your comedy to me is like an indicator that they know comedy. That's really nice, Amy. Well, it's true, Paula. That's really nice. I'm going to pretend to drink. I'm a little embarrassed about that.

[13:13] What do you got going on in there? Delicious water? Los Angeles water? You can taste the tap. [13:25] I love cracking up hard to crack up people. You do. That was always our fun. And obviously with Lauren, I used to like to, I like breaking through someone who's tough, a tough, like someone's like, I'm a hard, like it's hard to amuse me. I love to find the. [13:44] the little crack you do and you want to keep working it and that's why like with like especially like [13:49] quote unquote, like alphas, you're really, really good at getting them to laugh.

Well, I was new a few times when I was little in school and I hated people that were on immediately when they were new of like, hi, I'm so-and-so. Yeah. What do you like? Oh, I like this too. My biggest fear was that I would be that kind of person. And so I, cause I never like inauthentic love coming towards me. I don't like when people are, [14:19] Yeah. [14:29] Answering your question that I created in my head. Did I ask one? You didn't. But it's... [14:35] that feeling like with Lauren is, is just like, I want to feel more comfortable with him.

So I'm going to sit on him. Yeah. Which is what I used to do. I was going to talk about this later, but let's talk about it now. We can talk about it later. You used to go in three hours. Yeah. You guaranteed me contractually. Cause I said, I'm not driving over here, not getting on the four Oh five for an hour. I know how fast that goes. Well, we all know that pods. I know it's, [15:06] Important. Do you consider yourself a Midwest girl? Oh, God, yes and how. How would you describe a true Midwesterner?

What are they like? A pleasant liar. A deep liar. Just like Southern women. [15:25] Midwestern women usually are big liars. My grandma used to always go to [15:33] She loved to go have a little diner food with me, and I would take her to the Pine Cone over by the interstate in LaSalle, Peru. And she would start eating the soup. And I have a big Midwesterners love soup to Midwestern women. And she's, oh, and is this soup ever good? Oh, and how. Oh, I love this soup. Oh, God. And then the guy would come by.

This soup is fantastic. She would talk about the soup, and then as we're walking out, she would go, I didn't care for that soup. [16:03] like, why the fuck did you tell? I didn't say why the fuck to her, but I'm like, why didn't you just tell him you didn't like the soup and get a different soup? Oh, I'm not going to do that. I came from that kind of people that you don't tell the truth because that's not, and what I like about it is based in kindness that you don't want to hurt people's feelings.

But yes, you grew up where specifically for most of you? Yeah. Joliet. And for people who don't know Joliet, Illinois, what's that town like? [16:33] been there since they have a casino, which really revived, I think revived Joliet. But it was, you know, kind of a suburban town outside of Chicago, probably about 45 minutes outside of Chicago. And there's a prison nearby. So my quiz was always like, you know, where are you from Joliet? Not the prison. I always had it loaded up. Was the Joliet prison where Blues Brothers, [17:03] brothers.

And when I came into my meeting with Lauren, [17:07] And he said, so where are you from? Or he said, tell me about yourself. And I said, well, I'm from Joliet. And he said, whether that's true or not. And he thought I was doing a Joliet Jake reference, maybe. And I didn't even know his name was Joliet Jake at the time. And I was like, well, it is true. I mean, I'll have to. [17:26] Send them some proof of that because they're really raking me over the coals. Yeah, that's a little bit of a mind fuck to be like, nice try.

Nice try when it isn't even anything that you thought you were snowing them on. But we've talked about this a lot, and I love this. And I'm curious now as we're getting older, if like you always say that you felt as, and I know from you letting me read your journals, I got to read Paula's journals. [17:56] like wiser people. [17:57] than your years as a young person. I was a very caretaker. I always say born at 50. Very, I remember... [18:08] I started my period at nine and I remember telling all my friends how it works and like how to put it, you know, how to put a pad on and how to, and, and they gather around me.

Like I was like Julie Andrews on the music and I'd be, let's start at the very beginning. There's a string and an applicator. I just would always have the, the in of like, I'm an older, you know, and I had an older sister who taught me to read. Patty was like incredible. She always was very nurturing to me. [18:38] But to them, to my friends, I was the wise one. I had a very old soul. And I think it was because it was withering from lack of any sexual interest from anyone.

So by the time I was 15, I was like, well, I'll never be touched. But I was also silently and quietly touched. [18:59] looking at women and feeling weird about that. So you grew up in the eighties. You were, you, you were a lesbian. You knew it, but you couldn't. I knew it, but I didn't really know it in quotes until I was just out of high school. And so my best friend and I were, you know, [19:14] basically madly in love with each other. And we ended up always like sleeping over each other's house during the week for the last couple of years of high school in the same bed.

Like just, it was a very, um, Florida high school was like so affectionate, like the public school. And I came from like a Catholic girls school that was so not, I mean, we'd hug each other if, you know, somebody died or something, but it was just like, or if you had something on your coat, you know, [19:44] was... [19:45] I got to Florida and I was like, what is going on? Why is everyone hugging each other? And, but it was perfect for a closeted lesbian because we'd go to like a choir trip and we'd be just like, you know.

[19:56] We're 69 each other on the bus just sleeping like I'm sleeping on her ankles and she's sleeping on my ankles. And it's just but we didn't know at the time. We did know, but we didn't know. It was like your your soul knows, but you are not saying it. You're not acknowledging it. And then we started having all these fights at the end of high school, like a lot of dramatic drunken fights. We drink like a lot of white wine and big football cups. And we'd be like, I don't know.

Well, what do you want? Well, what did I do? It was just like fights. [20:26] It just the world broke open and I was like, well, you couldn't do that. That's what I was going to say is I think people don't really remember or understand that in our generation. I mean, I had I had no openly gay students in my high school. Not one. Not one. Not even the super gay ones. Exactly. Super gay guys where you're like, there is no doubt. [20:48] Like I was saying to my kids, there was no gay and lesbian alliance in my high school.

Oh, hell no. There was no openly gay teachers or students. Everything was, you know, nothing was spoken of. And it was this time where you really did have to live. [21:03] this secret double life that you could not share with most people that you loved. And I mean, the most heartbreaking thing about it was that when we went to college and we ended up together for a few years in college, and then there was a big heartbreak, the most heartbreaking thing is to go home and not be able to be heartbroken young person with in front of your family.

So you have to manipulate all the reason you're heartbroken of like, oh, she's gone away [21:33] to hang around with and go troll for dick. You have to like, you just have to fake it. You don't get the aftercare. And it's so heartbreaking because you just want to look at your... [21:44] Oh, I'm crying already, guys. This is supposed to be lighthearted, right? But like, you want to look at your mom and go like, yes, it's my first time I have my heart broken, you know, and my parents were very kind, sweet, wonderful, supportive people.

And at the time, if I would have had the balls to do it, I could have maybe explained it to them and they would have been loving to me. [22:14] You guys tease each other. You love a good joke. Comedy was so important to you growing up. All of them. My father is truly, genuinely, in his next life, will be a comedy writer. He is a comedy writer. He is still, he's 87, and he is still... [22:35] So ungodly funny. My mother was having gastro problems recently when she got really sick.

And I texted my dad and I said... [22:45] Um, uh, is she still having diarrhea? And he said not since Saturday and spelled it T U R D Saturday, like immediately, but he does it. He does it without being desperate for you to laugh. Sure. Sure. Sure. Just does it and wait. And that's you too. I also have a really good skill of freezing and pretending I'm freezing. You want me to do it? Yeah. Okay. I'll just do it while we're talking. Okay. So I know that, um, uh, there was a lot of people who were talking about it.

[23:15] lot of musical theater that you were into when you were a kid. Yes, I loved [23:19] you [23:20] *crickets* [23:24] Thank you. [23:25] The only reason I had to stop is that I was just joking on my spit. During the pandemic, I used to do it all the time on Zoom, and I would go so long. But, like, you know, it has to be in the middle of something. You can't just, like, stop. Yeah, sure. So it's just, like, when you – [23:46] people are going to think their YouTube is and that'll be like no I'm gonna I'll watch that later you were a musical theater like you were doing all your plays in high school you were like I want to be a performer like did you know anyone that was an actor did you think that was going to be your job one of my biggest gifts in life was I grew up in the Midwest where I had a little teeny Catholic high school they had the most glorious experience [24:12] Theater and music departments, always.

All my schools always had the most glorious. And nobody had money. It wasn't like these rich schools at all. And I was in... [24:23] Full with orchestra Oklahoma when I was like in fifth grade. Full orchestra. Music man. [24:30] where like a full band comes in at the end with 76 trombone, like, but really talented people. But like, and when I was in eighth grade, infamously with all my friends, I was mother superior, born at 50, mother superior in sounding music. And I have video and like many photos of me looking into the shaft of light, like Maria, you shall be led forth with peace.

[25:00] I've rebooted. And it's like my pubes have not come in. And I'm like the oldest woman. I'm the oldest fucking woman. And I'm looking like... [25:11] This earthy matron just singing in my nun outfit. I hear that you claim you should. Yeah, you do have like great other eras for sure. But you're too you love sex too much. You can't do it. You can't. I should have done the nun thing. Oh, wait, I did. [25:28] Hi, Sister Christine. She's not a sister anymore. [25:34] Wait, I was going to try to drink that like a cat.

[25:41] Are you? You're not an alto. I'm an alto. And then I can do like soprano as a joke voice. But I was talking to Anna about Anna Gassire about this. At some point, what is joke voice? Like joke voice is voice. Like, you know. Well, I mean, when you sing high, like alto, I'm a big blender. I love harmony. I love harmonizing those new things where you can go and just for the day harmonize with a bunch of people. I weep when I watch them, like where you can go in different [26:11] have that group that you learn it in one day and then you go and they're all singing like the song from rent and everyone is just walking around with their parts and they're singing that's my joy of all like I grew up with a lot of choirs a lot of show choirs a lot of groups and I love to harmonize so when I did Girls 5 Ava and I was with these like insane singers like Sara Bareilles and Renee Goldsberg and then Busy Phillips was a great singer like secretly and then we would sing

[26:41] to blend and sing with them. What have you been listening to lately? Um, I'll just every so often I'll listen to, you know, I'll listen to company cause I did a parody of that. Um, let's talk about that for a second. We're all over the place, but it doesn't matter. You did a documentary now, um, for people who don't know documentary now was a, like a, was, was a bunch of fake documentaries that, um, Bill Hader and Fred Armisen and Seth Meyers did brilliantly did. And John Mulaney [27:11] And there was a very famous one based off of the film and musical Company, the making of the Broadway album.

Yes. And you guys did one called Co-op. Co-op. Co-op the musical. And it was of the era. We were in that era, and I was an Elaine Stritch type. [27:41] mess, but then it turned out incredible. And I listened to that. And when I got to do that with them, cause they were all fictional songs, but like Sondheim actually heard them and talked to Malini about them and was like, I love, you know, cause it was, he did. Yeah. He went to some screening of it and then talked to them and they, they all, I think met him.

Like kind of, he kind of gave his blessing. Like these are good. And he gave his blessing because they were such [28:11] music and [28:12] And the words. They're so funny. And, you know, Seth wrote some of those songs, but they're all so funny. And I just love being able to sing and emote at the same time. Like any musicals that I grew up with, I loved the ones that you could just... [28:29] be in the, you know, one of my favorites. I'm not going to, I know you probably, do you have to pay for songs?

Well, I mean, I feel like we should do what we used to call it as an all a sound. Let's do a sound, but, but you can sing the song losing my mind from follies. It's, it's like, [28:44] It's those kind of songs that like Liza Minnelli would. So can you sing the sing part of it, the real thing, and then show people what a sound alike would be? It's it's the it's one of the saddest songs on earth. [28:56] The sun comes up. I think about you. [29:02] The coffee cup, I think about you.

You said you loved me, or were you just being kind? [29:13] Or am I losing my mind? [29:17] Gunshot. I'm sorry. Okay, now can we get a sound alike, please? Yeah, so if we were to SNL and then they were like, we can't do that. You're going to have to do so. It would be like. [29:30] When I wake up, you're in my mind. When I wake up, you're not here. My heart's cracking. You're in my mind. Just off enough. Okay. Florida. [29:48] affectionate Florida, you get there as a high schooler, [29:52] You go to Disney.

Yes. You work at Disney. I work at Disney. How did you get the job at Disney, which is a job everyone must want? I, I... [30:01] Got my degree in theater. I left University of Tennessee because I... [30:07] barely finished. I did finish. But that's really interesting because you're such a good student and you're so smart and studious. I was also a theater student and it was the eighties. And my best friend, James Anderson, who wrote at SNL for 20 years and wrote every funny thing you've ever seen. He and I were classmates and we were gay and we used to go to the gay bars and dance all night.

And then we would do plays constantly that rehearsed all night. And then we would have [30:37] biology class in the morning with no parking. So I was always making up incompletes all the time. And my parents came for my graduation and I looked for my final, I went to the hall of science to look at my final, my final grade the night before they all got there with my grandparents and everything. And it was an F and I called James crying and it was pouring rain in a phone booth. [31:07] I called the teacher and I just blubbered and he ended up giving me like a D or a C and I could graduate.

I had to write a paper that night, had no sleep the night before my graduation. I wrote a paper called that I still look for in boxes called... [31:24] I plagiarized 100% from a bunch of stuff cobbled together on microfiche. And it was called Galileo, the courage to wonder. [31:36] And I came up with this theory because I read one line that he said he had a fraught relationship with his dad or something. And I was like, and it was just all about his internal world with his father and all this shit.

Oh, my God, Paula, I did not know that, that you graduated by the skin of your teeth. Would never have guessed that. [31:54] got to Florida, you know, was broke as hell. A lot of my friends went to New York, like James, to have the dream. And I went back to Florida and then they built Pleasure Island. And it was this nighttime, crazy 80s, [32:11] giant, like phallic island of clubs for the adults. It was brilliant. It's like your kids are here and you're sick of them and you want to go out and let it rip and get drunk with your wife and make out.

And every night was New Year's Eve. So every night at like right before midnight, all the drunks from all the clubs and the theaters and the comedy warehouse, which was improv, all of them came out and then there'd be these hot dancers and then they'd have confetti. They'd do a [32:41] And it was so 80s and so good. And so I ended up being in the original cast of The Adventurers Club. So I was Pamelia Perkins, once again, a matron, a comedy matron. I was 22. Pamelia Perkins, the president of The Adventurers Club.

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And I was like, never really been with a man. I've been a little bit here and there. Just a little sneaky, weaky, whatever. Yeah. Touchy, watchy, pokey, wokey, but like nothing. Yeah. Haven't had the full girth. Right. And so I was like, you know, maybe I need to go down Penis Avenue. So I, at that club... [35:50] They'd let the employees party after work. Oh, my God. That's what I was hoping. For like the last two hours. Yeah. So when the club would close, we had like at least an hour and a half to go to these other great bars right there.

So we'd be with these cute ass boys. Mm-hmm. And we'd just be like, you know, a bunch of cute Brits or cute like Irish boys. And I looked literally like, you know, like, I mean, I had like a bouffant. And I'm like, you want to meet us over at the thing? [36:20] Well, my long hair, I take all my hair down. I put a bunch of makeup. I'd come out. I was still fat, but I would put all the other stuff on, bring the eye up, put earrings, lots of stuff up here.

Look at me up here. [36:34] And then I'd show up and then I started fooling around with these guys that were like these fun, like there to have fun. And they were like, she's so cool. She doesn't even really seem into me. I'm like so into her. [36:50] stuck. Yeah. Except the semen. No, I'm kidding. But like nothing, you know. Yeah. And so Disney was like, felt like a training ground for you. Yeah. Disney was every night you got to have a large group of people laugh at what you did, even if it was like stupid that night or you weren't feeling it or you weren't.

It's that energy that we all love, that we loved at SNL, that we, we all crave since we were little, that we do stick in front of our parents on a couch. [37:17] You got to [37:18] hear humans look at you and go, oh, she's really funny. She's they'd laugh at you. And then I, I went over to, um, [37:28] work at Murder, She Wrote, the post-production show during the day for my next job. I moved out of Disney and I just did part-time there. And I pretended I was a, like in this wheel, in these wheels, I pretended I, in some of it, you're an editor.

And it was all about the making of Murder, She Wrote. And I would talk to Jessica Fletcher on the screen. So I'd go, you know, it was all timed. So it was like fake, but you know, she'd come and go, oh dear, I think we're going to do [37:58] you met, we better go. There's murders. And I go, I know Jessica. Well, we're going to make sure that we're going to, and you'd have to talk. And one, one day I was so hung over that I looked up at her and I turned and I went, let's see what big, I said, big old Jessica.

I go, let's see what big old Jessica has to say. And then I turned like this and it was just like, [38:18] I could not stop laughing. I missed like three cues. So she was just talking with like 10 seconds in between. And you would hang over church giggles. [38:28] So that felt like a step up. That's where I got my SNL job. Okay, so how do you go from talking to Jessica Fletcher to auditioning for SNL? Because that year, all those talented people that worked for SAC Theater, that also performed at Disney, [38:46] were great writers, great performers.

And I, they had a theater and I would go and do characters at the theater sometimes on sketch night. I wasn't an improviser. I was, you know, I never really have had improv training ever in my life, except theater. Sure. And every day at Disney. That's true. So I did these characters and then that got to SNL. Wow. And then I'm sitting in the dressing, I mean, green room with all the people that worked at [39:16] post-production and I was sitting there waiting for the next them to load the next audience and and everything was a corded phone of course it was like somebody's calling you and I answered the phone it was my local agent that I had done commercials for and stuff and she was like are you sitting down and I said yeah and and she said um Lauren Michaels wants you to come to New York and and meet him and I was like is it what is it like is it an audition because I mean

[39:46] SNL doing Rosanna, Rosanna Dana in high school for my school assemblies. Like I was so SNL and they were like, no, it's not an audition. And I was like, what is it? And I just got off the phone and they flew me there that week for two nights or one night. And I just got there and was terrified. And I went in and he was like two hours late and I sat down with him and he started talking like we had been talking already. Like he started in the middle of a sentence.

And that's why the show, [40:16] is a, you know, a Phoenix rising and this year we're going to rise again and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, [40:23] rising above my body. And at one point I remember saying to him and Steve Higgins, [40:28] I am a lot more boring here than I usually am. I just remember like calling out because I was so scared. And so and he had already just my now telling him I'm from Joliet. So I was a little off. You were basically hired without knowing and no one told you you were hired, which is what SNL does.

So then they just said, I think I think we and then I left. Lauren notoriously does not hire or fire. [40:58] was like, okay, we'll figure, you know, call you. It has to be in about four days, five days. I went and gave my cats and my dog to my mom and dad. I ran and called, like, it was the most, I remember crying in a closet and calling my nieces and nephews and crying and being like, I know. And they're like, can you take us to the opera? Like they didn't know New York city.

Like it was so exciting, but it was terrifying. And I remember my mom just finally looking at me and going, [41:28] I fail at a place that I've worshipped my whole life. And she's like, but then you do. And you had the experience. You got to go there. Wow, Paula. So they saw your characters and they were like, we want her as a writer. They didn't really make it clear why you were coming in. Right. You knew you were coming in for writing and not performing. Yeah. But you were a performer.

What is it like to like, and obviously you're a performer who's writing all the time. You're creating these characters. But back then, especially, I feel like the lines are way more blurred now. Yes. But when... [41:57] When you get to SNL, you kind of get like put into a category. And you're put into the writer category, even though you are. [42:05] And you are this super strong performer who's been performing. Yes. So what was that adjustment like? Well, I don't want to assume, you know, I've heard here and there little things.

And who knows? Because we've all been in there when they're picking people. And it's like so random. I mean, not random, but like there's reasons that you don't think are the reasons and all this. But I do suspect that I was a big lady. I was a big plus size person. There was just not that in any time. [42:35] TV anything like there wasn't, you know, there were starting to be Roseanne Barr, like people that had more real looking bodies. But I was just not of the aesthetic of that place whatsoever.

This was late 90s, mid 90s. So it was 95. And I just I do suspect that it wasn't even like. [42:56] Oh! [42:57] No, like, but. [42:58] her writing. Like, I like her writing because that fits with us. Did you ever talk to anyone at the show about that specifically or like? I mean, I, you know, I really was such a good Catholic girl of a rule follower when it comes to when, when a, when a actor who, because I'd only acted, I, I, [43:20] Got there and told them I'm not a writer.

I, even though I'd written like short stories, I don't know how to do, I don't know how to do any of this. Yeah. I, I really... [43:28] And I was so afraid to ever show any desire to perform. And it's why I'm so gloriously happy to be able to perform later in my life because I finally let that out of the cage. The shame. The shame and the shine right next to each other. Yes. Oh, I like that. The shame and the shine. The shame and the shine because you might have been feeling that, right?

Like, I just want to be grateful for what I have. But your shine just – [43:57] without you even trying, like it could not be dimmed. Like you there, you became the performer that you are now, but... [44:06] because it was such a strong, undeniable thing. People put you in sketches because they knew how funny you were. You were funny in the room. You just like without, to your point, you didn't. [44:18] say, fuck this, I'm not going to write. I only want this [44:21] You took the opportunity. You did an incredible job writing for other people and you slowly, you know,

[44:29] knew and believed in yourself and others saw what... [44:34] kind of performer. Well, I felt I felt like everything and it was it was a bigger picture of codependency and caretaking that in my life, in my whole life, I was making the pie and then giving all the pie away. OK, so for people who don't know who are listening and we talked about this a little bit with Anna and we've talked about it with Rachel and talked about with Tina and we talked about it with Seth and we talked about it.

But like Paula Powell has written a [44:59] Some of your favorite sketches, including Bobby and Marty, the Culp's, including Debbie Downer, including the cheerleaders and those actors. Of course. Of course. But the actors get all the credit. [45:10] They do. They always it's like whoever is saying the lines, people assume that they've written the lines. And as we I mean, people understand that there are writers on that show. But the public facing cast always gets the first kind of love amount of love. Appalachian emergency room, Tony Bennett talk show, all this stuff.

When you're writing, what was the first time you wrote something and you were there where that terror went away a little bit where you thought, OK, I might not get fired. OK, well, there's two kinds of terror because I was in that era of recurring characters. [45:40] And I was lucky enough to get in that first year with – [45:46] Will and Sherry for cheerleaders and with Anna and Will for Bobby and Marty. And they were so up my alley. I was the person that tried out every year for cheerleading, never, ever made it, worked on my back handsprings in the summer.

And then I would, because I was fat and I would stand with holding everyone's purses during the basketball games. And I knew every cheer and all my friends were cheerleaders. Like all of them were on the squad. And then I'd be up there like [46:16] matron at 12 going, you know, and gathering them around to talk to them about life. Do you need a cough drop? And so the idea of, I loved writing joyful losers. That was my favorite thing is someone who is joyfully living their life, what they want to do.

And that, because when I read that journal, that's what I was, you know, I, I, I got a new, I got my rock tumbler and [46:46] Like a crazy broad as this little person, like talking about what lights me up, my plants, my stuffed animals, all those things. And when I got there and met them, they were my people. Like I would cry laughing till five in the morning writing those things with them. But the other thing you have to get there is to prove that you're actually good by yourself.

And that is a terrifying thing. [47:16] ride on. It's the best thing ever. And my very first one I remember was doing Wilford Brimley with John Goodman. And I wrote it. [47:26] I used to do this thing where I was the last one almost always at writing night. Yeah, so Paula stayed the latest. So one night I wrote John Goodman as Wilford Brimley, and he was on a fake horse, because it always used to make me laugh when he was a big guy. And he would, I mean, Wilford Brimley was a big guy, but then he'd do this commercial for this health stuff, and he'd be like, I take care of my blood sugar.

And I was like, no, you don't. And so I had him say, I take care of my blood sugar. [47:56] And it was just this slowly descending conversation in this commercial, and John was so funny. But it killed at the table. It absolutely killed, and it was the first time I could really... [48:11] look and go, I deserve to be here because I didn't feel like I deserve to be there. I didn't think, you know, I, and then if I was writing with other actors, it's like, yeah, but they're so funny and they're so good.

And that was the first time I said, you are a writer. Like you sat down and you wrote words that no one else saw because they all went home and they could, they could read this. I mean, they, they read this and they laughed. How long did you write for SNL? I wrote full time [48:41] You know, I did that slow exiting out where I did like I came to Lauren and was like, I'm going to do half the season spread out. So I would do like one or two shows.

Then I would have a break for a while. It was really trying to get away from the team. And he didn't want you to leave. It was slow. And Lauren, you know, one of the things I love the most about him is he he doesn't want people. He doesn't want his family to leave, you know. And then you are the long. Do you know that you are the longest tenured? [49:09] female writer in SNL history? Female. Oh yeah. Cause I was going to say James beat me by two years on the writing side, but yeah, female.

Um, uh, that's, that's really nice. Isn't that cool? Why haven't I gotten a plan for that? And before I get off SNL, um, two things. One is Debbie Downer. Yes. Most fun ever. I mean, that first Debbie Downer is, we've talked about it, the [49:39] looking up at the screen and just we could not believe that. [49:42] It was like a house of cards falling down, but it was the best house of cards. And we just wanted to go on and on and on. And I mean, you created a cultural language.

Like people use the term Debbie Downer now as if it was just. It was on my soaps the other day and I was like, good Lord. It was? Yeah. What soap are you watching right now? All the CBS soaps. Love them all. If you ever want me on there. Oh my God, I should definitely be on a soap opera. That would be so fun. Yeah. That would be so fun. Okay. [50:10] So we've worked together on so many things after SNL. We worked together on Sisters, an incredible movie that you wrote.

That is like kind of. You guys were incredible. And Tina got to play some versions of you and your sister and. And read my actual journal in a bathtub. They were in the bathtub reading pages from my actual journal. It was beautiful and so fun. And that shoot was so fun with Ike and John Cena, your buddy who loves John Cena. Yeah. [50:35] He loves you. I love John Cena. I see him to this day. I have a couple ideas for John Cena. I'm going to hit him up for. I have some.

He is. He just. And that shoot was just. And Kate. There were so many fun people that came in on that. Diane Wiest and James Brolin. James Brolin playing my parents. And do you want to tell the story about when Barbara came by set? [51:05] supposed to be Barbara's last concert. And that was at the Milan. That was like 2000, whatever. Right. 2000. Right. Yeah. Yes. And I spent all this money to fly her to Vegas to go to that concert at like New Year's Eve. It was this huge surprise.

And I took her and then she comes to sisters married to James Rowland. She comes to sisters the day before my parents came to set to visit from Florida. And if I would have known, I would have like immediately flown her there. [51:35] which is like great. She looks cute from this blurry picture. I don't know if you remember, my parents happened to be there. And in a different way, you're flying my parent, you're flying your parent, your mom out to Vegas. I'm always telling my parents, I'm not going to fly you out to Vegas.

Okay. I'm doing the opposite. Vegas is their Streisand. Well, they're always like, why don't you take me to the Academy Awards? And I'm like, relax. [52:05] I wonder if Barbara Streisand is going to show up. And I go, Barbara Streisand is not going to come to our set. Mom, give it a break. Like, let it go. And she just came to visit. She is. And she was the cutest. So cute. So cute. And I just remember whenever I would get up to go to anything, she'd go, are you going to the craft services?

She'd go, just give me a little plate of something. Just give me a little something. I don't care what it is. Just a little something. And I'm like, that's fucking Barbara Streisand.