Game 7 Fever in OKC, NBA Lottery Reform, and a Mega-Mailbag With Rob Mahoney, David Jacoby, and Joe House

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Rob Mahoney is here. We're coming right after a game that I'm frankly shocked by the result. I'm not shocked San Antonio won, Rob. Yeah. [02:30] I'm shocked. [02:31] that it was a blowout, especially at halftime. It felt like they hung around, hung around, hung around, hung around. [02:37] and we were going to have this awesome second half. But my first question to you, [02:41] So game one of this series, game one of Nick's Cavs, which was that awesome Brunson game, the comeback. [02:48] And it was just basketball bliss for 24 straight hours.

[02:53] We haven't had a good basketball game since. Cousin Sal is that nine and a half point thing that he does where it's nine and a half point favorites. I bet seven straight nine and a half point favorites cover. [03:06] And we just had bad basketball. So what happened? Did we just, [03:09] We paid all the taxes for those two games and that's it. I think some of the games in this series have been better than the final score. We are at least getting like three really high, like well-played quarters often from these teams.

They're just one critical stretch in which one of the other pulls away. But yeah, it does feel like we sold our souls or something. Like we paid a heavy cost. We got the great weekend of historic basketball. And now we just all have to deal with the consequences. [03:34] I thought today would be the makeup for all the crappy games we've been watching, but [03:39] You're right. This is good, bad basketball because... [03:43] There's so much chess going on. [03:45] to watch San Antonio do this twice to OKC in three games, basically, I thought.

[03:51] I thought OKC was going to win tonight. [03:54] But I thought it was more because of the Castle Fox thing, which I just couldn't. [03:59] I couldn't get that out of my head how I didn't think Fox looked right the last couple games. Has not. [04:04] And he looked bad tonight. And I didn't think Harper looked good either. [04:09] And then Harper was awesome today. And you think like Wemby had that just, you know, lights out classic Wemby first half. [04:16] But Harper was the other piece of it, and they were still up seven.

And if you had told me they're going to get these two first halves from these two guys, I would have thought they were up 20. [04:24] Didn't matter. They ended up blowing them out in the second half. So what happened? What did you think the number one thing was? Yeah, that's the thing. I think based on the first half, it felt like the Spurs were winning, like technically winning, but the Thunder were hanging around, as you mentioned, and they were just like gutting out enough possessions to make you think, okay, if there's any turn in this game, if there's any change in the momentum, if OKC comes out in the second half and their offense looks any cleaner.

[04:46] then this thing could really break their way. [04:49] It turned out the opposite was the case, which is the Spurs completely tightened the screws and just suffocated all life out of the Thunder offense. And it's been one of these things that's been flying a little under the radar in these playoffs that the Spurs have just been the single most dominant third quarter team in the entire postseason. And it's a weird thing to think about a young group. We're used to thinking about, you know, the juggernaut warriors in that capacity, maybe.

But I think it's an incredible credit to Mitch Johnson. [05:19] able to figure out the tactical adjustments of like exactly how they need to pivot strategically but you take a break you let them reset you give them like a couple of talking points and a little bit of film and they come out and they just throw like an absolute haymaker against the defending champions it's amazing to watch in the third [05:36] And you know, the other thing, [05:37] What you just said about San Antonio was true for OKC at the end of these halves.

[05:42] And you could feel it coming in the end of the second quarter. [05:45] they're just like closers in the last three, four minutes of the second. And it's like, [05:50] "Oh, they were up four, now they're up 18, what just happened?" Or, "They're down 12, now they're down two, what just happened?" And San Antonio kind of rode that off too. I think OKC got it to within maybe three. [06:01] But then it ended seven at halftime, which I thought was big. So in the third quarter, 20-0 San Antonio run.

[06:08] OKC had a seven-minute drought. [06:10] Yeah. Where they went 0 for 14 at one point. There was one point where they were 6 for 26 from 3. I mean, one thing we learned from them last year, [06:19] If they're not making threes at all, no, [06:22] Anyone can beat them, especially if you're home. And this seesaw has been crazy over the last four games. 45%, 18%, 44%, 24%. Like, that is... [06:34] a wild level of erratic offense when Shea has also just been really inefficient from the field. And they are reliant on at least one of those things breaking for them to win.

So... [06:45] If I'm a fan base here in this game, there's two choices. [06:50] What am I most nervous about? [06:53] on each side heading into Game 7 after watching [06:57] these first six, because for me, it would be for OKC... [07:01] I didn't Jada didn't exactly and still a ton of confidence in there. AJ Mitchell is just gone. I don't, I don't think we're seeing him again. [07:09] And that second creator thing, which didn't bother them in game five, but did bother them in this game. But the three point shooting would be the thing that made me nervous.

For San Antonio, if I'm a fan of them, it's Fox. [07:23] And then it's just like, which Wemby am I getting? [07:26] Because Wimpy was the big winner tonight. He had the makeup for... [07:30] the game five, which I still don't know what he was doing in game five. He did the, the, uh, the Vondam hard, hard, uh, hard foul demand at the end of game five, put out the hit, turned into Martin Cove and Karate Kid. [07:45] Um, [07:46] And then didn't talk to the media. Mm-hmm. [07:48] God forbid you do that.

We need your boring quotes. [07:53] But basically, it was awesome in this game. The Spurs are 3-0 when he's awesome in this series. Is it just that simple for the Spurs? Is that what I would not be nervous about if I'm a Spurs fan? This guy is showing up for Game 7. He's the next one. I think what you would be nervous about is he was awesome in this game, but... [08:08] But Oklahoma City took away the vast majority of anything going to the basket. They blew up a lot of the lobs going to Wimby, any like straight line hits in transition they were able to take away.

He put up a ton of points because he made a ton of jumpers. And granted – [08:23] I would never want to be on the other side of that bet. Like, are you willing to bet your season and your title defense on the idea that he won't do that again? [08:31] wouldn't be me but if you're gonna play like a gamble here of something you have to give up something to victor webb and yama and late in a series if you're the spurs you just have to get a little used to settling for whatever is left right the other team has schemed away the three best things you have going on every possession yeah if what's left is victor webb and yama shooting over the top of literally anyone in front of him both from three and then we saw him in this game kind of get to some of those like mid-range into the elbow into like little turnarounds in [09:01] If that stuff is going to be available to him, I think you're fine with it, but it's not the same as the 97% accuracy of a Victor Webinama dunk.

Right, right. Well, they were doing... One thing I noticed, they were trying to set these little sneaky picks for him that would then send him flying down, not for a lob, but just to get... [09:19] Near the foul line? Yeah. [09:20] So I don't know. That was the one experimentation thing that seemed like it worked a few times. But I just thought, [09:27] It was such a weird OKC performance. Shea didn't get involved at all in the first quarter. [09:32] They missed a ton of threes. There were a lot of like Lou Dort threes.

[09:37] I think he took five in the first half. And they're playing all those hockey lineups. And it felt like he never found a lineup that, [09:44] had the right rhythm and i don't what what is your okc lineup that you like the most and [09:49] Obviously as [09:50] Caruso and SJ out there. Do you like when they go two bigs? What's your favorite of all the options? I do think it has both bigs and it has Caruso and Shay. I think at this point it is Jared McCain. I think JW is so limited to...

[10:03] He is trying to get out these quick bursts of playing time that they're giving him, but when he tried to do something with the ball, it just kind of went nowhere. I don't expect much more than him being a decoy. We've seen Isaiah Joe get played out of the rotation. Actually, I think Cason Wallace is a decent option if that's that spot too. He had a really ballsy game during the really difficult parts of it in particular. [10:33] to look pretty, that's not going to pan out, that's not like the thing you would script up, but ultimately who can come away with those balls?

And [10:40] I'm going to change it and go from McCain to Kaysen Wallace on that reason alone. I think I want one more dog in that fight if I'm the Thunder. [10:49] What's the ideal Thunder final score of a Game 7? [10:52] Is it in the 110s? Is it like a 92 to 85%? [10:57] Because... [10:58] If you're going for your all-defense kind of side, then you're going to see more case and loss. I thought he was really good tonight. I mean, he had two plays in a row where he just took the ball from the Spurs.

He had three threes. [11:09] I would have wanted a little more from him. But I wonder, do you just do threes? [11:15] rebounds, bother Wemby, and then just hope SGA gets 30 and you can kind of eke out one of those 99-92 type games? I think like Game 7's almost always turn out that way regardless of what you want. But all three Thunder wins have been in the 120s, right? And some of their losses have been among the lowest scoring offensive output games of this entire era in terms of what they're scoring.

So it really is a feast or famine thing. And I think a lot of that is Shea, who... [11:41] I mean, he looks so uncomfortable in this game. I can't remember the last time we saw him settle for this many shots, and there's just like a layered defensive impact where – [11:51] The Spurs are so good at denying him the ball. And you saw it with Castle, but you also see like Devin Vassell doing it, you know, Champagne doing it. Basically, anyone who's cross-matched or switched is taking like shaving time off the clock, [12:03] and taking some life out of the Thunder offense right off the bat.

Then when Shea does get the ball, he has to chart where Wimby is at all times. He has to be extra careful. And then he ended up with so many late clock bombs in his hand that he just had to hoist up. It's... [12:17] It really is an uncanny thing seeing a guy who's so used to playing at his own pace all the time playing basically this entire game on somebody else's terms. [12:27] I have no feel for this series at all. I think I've picked five of the six games wrong.

[12:32] And every time I think I have a feel for it, it zags the other way. Yeah. [12:37] And... [12:38] This one is like, basically, you just have to guess if Wimby's going to have an awesome game or not. [12:43] And if he has an awesome game, it just seems like San Antonio is a better team with the OKC injuries. [12:49] So he's one winner tonight. [12:52] Devin Bissell? [12:54] Fucking love Dennis Vassell. Just for this whole playoffs, you want to pigeonhole him as a 3 and D guy, but I almost feel like he's a 3 and D plus.

Oh, yeah. Like he's... [13:03] He's a level over a role player, but he's not an all-star, but he's in that nice... [13:08] Nice sound. One of the things I love, he should have gotten a tech. It's been a tech all playoffs. They didn't call it tonight, but when... [13:14] He blocked Chet. [13:16] He shoved them. [13:17] and then talk shit to him, which has been a technical foul this entire... [13:22] Year. For 20 years. Literally the first time this year they didn't call it. Because I think the refs are after the Tony Brothers massacre that happened in Game 5.

[13:32] which I was being really, I had legs on after game five. I was really careful talking about how I felt about the refs because I just thought it was an apocalypse. But after that, it really felt like the refs were like, [13:44] Hey, we want to let the players decide this one. We don't, [13:47] We're not here. Just do your thing. But that was a classic Vassell play where... [13:53] He brings a lot of fuck you. [13:55] to their team. I really trust him. I trust him as a number four guy.

I don't know how many movement shooters you could say that about, right? These skinny, life lanky guys who are running around ball screens, catching on curls and shooting. How many 6'5 shooters legitimately play bigger than they do all the time in the way that Vazal does? He guarded Chet tonight. He guarded Chet. And that's not the first fuck you block he's had on Chet in this series. He comes up with huge defensive plays. He comes up with big time contested defensive rebounds. [14:25] he's like the antithesis of the archetype that frustrates me the most.

Like the empty stats, like I put up 18 on jump shots, but I give you literally nothing else is like, those are among the most frustrating players for me to watch. Devin Vassell will give you maybe not that kind of scoring output every night, but he does so many other little things all the time that feel instrumental to a series like this one. Yeah. I always call it like, [14:48] I don't know, he had 13, 14, and it was a loud 13. [14:52] Right. His points, his performances are loud. I think Castle's like that too.

Yeah. Castle's one of those guys you look at is like, does he have like 30 points? And it's like, no, he has 16, but he's all over the place. He had nine assists, I think today too. Um, [15:05] I think with Fussell... [15:07] He's been thrown in these trades for... [15:10] Two years, right? [15:12] It's like, oh, Trey Murphy. Well, if they went after Giannis, we'll put him in. He's just always the constant because he's making like 25 million a year. [15:22] He's good, but you can always feel like you do better.

[15:24] I think he's kind of the perfect fourth guy for them. Yeah. I mean, really the issue, if you're thinking about upgrades all summer, [15:31] with no matter what happens with them, uh, [15:34] you know, in game seven and even in the finals. [15:37] Fox is going to be the big question. If they lose this Oklahoma series, he's going to be the one everyone points to. And how hurt was he? [15:44] Was he healthy? [15:46] Oh, he's clearly hurt. He can't really move very well at all. Seems like he has no lift.

And the Thunder are basically betting we don't have to take him off the ball very seriously. We don't really have to respect him in the corner. We don't have to rotate out to him super hard because we don't think he can beat the closeout. If we just put a Lou Dort in front of him, we'll mostly be fine. And they've been pretty much right about that part of things. Yeah, he doesn't have that little... [16:12] drive into the lane, that little spin move backwards for that 13-footer, the little 13-foot turnaround just doesn't have the lift anymore.

Another winner for the... Oh, go ahead. I was going to say Harper is a huge part of that too. To the extent that De'Aaron Fox feels expendable, which is a crazy thing to say about a player as good as De'Aaron Fox, I think some of it comes with the fact that Dylan Harper is already so good so quickly. And he's going to have massive expectations on him at all times, I think, because he's one of these guys who you see him just breaking down... [16:40] the best perimeter defenders in the sport one after another.

Yeah. If you can do that, there's always going to be that tension of like, why can't you do more? Especially coming off of a game like game five, where he was, [16:51] invisible like you you would not recognize his presence in that game you would have to double check the box score to make sure he even played it and then he comes out in a game like this and he's just in front of everybody turning the corner all the time looking super aggressive and i think he can kind of turn that up whenever he wants to that's the most terrifying thing about him at this stage [17:10] And seems healthy, finally.

Yep. [17:12] I didn't feel like he looked like him in 2, 3, 4, and 5. He was awesome in game one. He was awesome in this game. Took the spotlight off of... [17:20] Fox is stunk. Um, [17:22] Another winner tonight. [17:24] Garbage time. [17:25] San Antonio put out the triple towers. [17:29] Olenek. [17:30] Biambo Plumlee. Yeah, we're waiting. It was the first time we'd seen that. I didn't even know they would do that. It was almost like in hockey when it's like a 6-2 playoff game, and they put out the fourth line with like all the guys can fight, and they're just kind of skating around in case anything happens for a couple minutes.

[17:46] That was the vibe I was getting. Nothing happened. It's a different kind of high drama, but we all escaped unscathed somehow. [17:52] Were you surprised how they use Biambo as like a stretch... [17:56] Stretch seven. [17:57] I don't even know if he's a stretch five. He's just 25 feet from the basket for no reason. Given that there's Matt Pionbo's in the NBA in 2026, nothing else can surprise me. It's amazing. Um, [18:09] Another big winner, NBC. [18:10] Mm-hmm. [18:11] They get a Saturday night game seven. [18:14] I actually thought their crew, which I think has been pretty up and down because the two...

[18:18] Reggie's Reggie and Jamal Crawford feeling it out. But I thought they did a good job tonight. Jamal Crawford... [18:24] He had a couple great points tonight. Like when he, like J-Dub had a turnover, like where he fumbled the ball to bounce. I have liked this one too. Yeah, and Crawford said... [18:34] Yeah, that's what happens when you're rusty. The hardest thing to come back is your ball handling. I'm like, oh. [18:39] okay nugget i'll take it it's an incredibly astute point and we should also say exactly the thing that jamal crawford one of the great ball handlers in history would say it's like yes your thing would be the thing to go but i do think he's right like it is where you feel clumsy is coming back or where you see a player like jdub just looking a little out of sorts a little out of rhythm like how can you ask a guy to jump into a series this competitive and this brutal like this was an incredibly

[19:09] Ruder level analysis of flopping kind of way, but in the like, people are getting, this is a rugby game. Absolute rugby game, a skirmish and a scrum to get every loose ball. And you're just throwing Jada about them being like, I guess, see what you can do. It's, it's a lot to ask of him. [19:23] That was another reason in the second quarter why I thought OKC was going to come back. Because once the reps were allowing three bodies on the ground for half the plays, they [19:32] Is that what OKC wants?

[19:34] They have Dort and Caruso and Hartenstein and J-Will. [19:39] Like that, that sounds great for them. And they have SGA who's good at navigating that stuff. [19:43] But it turned out to be way better for San Antonio. Yeah. [19:47] I think weirdly AJ Mitchell is a winner. [19:49] I thought they really missed his... [19:52] Adlib offense, second ball handler, take the pressure off. [19:56] off shake because otherwise you're just looking at jared mccain who yeah you know who has been i would say considering for what they gave up on him like a revelation in these playoffs but this was a lot doing this in san antonio against a crazy crowd they really needed him to be awesome in this game and you know he's a second year guy i i really do respect with mccain though i mean he's a crucial ball handler for them right now as you mentioned and he will actually go at wimby in a way that other guys won't and he'll just see kind of like if i bump him just enough can i get [20:26] layup up?

Can I get something up on the rim so Cheddar Hardenstein can clean it up? [20:31] He's aggressive in ways they need him to be aggressive. He's just not quite up to the level of doing that as a driver right now. He's clearly a flamethrower shooter. And we've seen the Thunder tap into that when they really need it. But they need the ball handling right now more than they need the shooting. [20:46] All right, so when we think about Game 7, mm-hmm. [20:49] which is two days from now. [20:51] We've gone every other day.

[20:52] And both teams are a little banged up. [20:56] We've seen the Wemby... [20:58] You kind of know in the first quarter with him if he has it or not from a I'm all over the place. I have the eye of the tiger or wow, Wemby looks tired. And it's just one of those two worlds. [21:08] This is a game seven. [21:11] It's hard to say who has the most at stake in this game because it's a game seven to get to the finals. So technically everybody has something at stake.

[21:20] But when be knocking out OKC, be down 3-2, knocking out the back-to-back champs, a team that won, what did they win, like 132 games in two seasons? [21:30] And him basically, if they're going to win, he's going to be the best player in that game. Yeah. [21:34] And at age 22, I had the four of the seven best games in the series and we won four games to three. [21:40] And now here we come New York Knicks. You are now like, I feel like he has the most at stake, even though if it doesn't happen this year, we'll just like, oh, it'll be fine.

It'll happen for him next year. Who do you think has the most at stake? [21:52] Yeah, I mean, Wimby is the most to gain, probably, for that reason. That's what it is, most to gain. Most to gain, but not a lot to lose, because you're right. I think, right or wrong, we will expect that he has a lot of time ahead of him to be in series and competitive situations like this one. The most at stake... [22:07] I mean, it... [22:08] The Thunder are in such an odd place overall, just in terms of their reputation, like their place in the basketball consciousness.

It's like they're defending champions and they get a lot of respect based on that. But clearly, they're not the most liked team in recent basketball history. And I wonder if they lose a series like this one. And let's say next season is also a challenging one for whatever reason. Like you can see their story taking a really sharp turn. I don't think that's what's going to happen. I kind of do expect that OKC will win game seven. [22:36] I don't know that we're really in a position to predict anything at this point, given the way the series has gone.

[22:42] Within that, the idea of Shea coming out of the series shooting like 37% from the field in a round that even though the Thunder are injured, they lose. I could see there being a lot of questions and a lot of interrogation about just like them and the construction of their team and what they should be moving forward. [22:59] And there's some, do we have the right team to battle Wemby? We just lost to him and the Spurs aren't even really the Spurs yet. [23:06] It would open a lot of questions.

Definitely a lot more like, oh, man. [23:10] We're already searching for answers here. We just won a kajillion games. We won the title last year. Now we have to question ourselves. [23:17] Um, [23:18] I think from San Antonio's side, [23:22] I'm trying to think like, [23:24] ranking dudes who would have to come through because game sevens, they're slower, they're uglier, the more on the rock fight side. Yep. [23:31] What we have seen, though, in recent years is road teams being able to go on the road and winning game sevens, which in the old days, you just won game sevens at home.

That's just how it went. [23:41] And then that started to shift. And now every once in a while, we seem to have these Philly at Boston. [23:47] Dallas at Phoenix. We have these ones where they're not even just winning on the road. They're killing teams on the road. They're just eradicating them. [23:55] With that said, I do feel like the home court has mattered unusually in this series because it ramps up the defense on both sides. [24:02] The three-point shooters are going to be a little more comfortable at home. [24:05] Um,

[24:07] San Antonio, for the guys that have to come through, mm-hmm. [24:09] One of Vassell and Champagny. Yes. I need a four or five, three game for one of them. [24:15] I need Harper to play like he did today, period. Mm-hmm. [24:18] I need Fox not to suck like he did. I don't need him to be good, but you can't suck. You can't go like one for 10. [24:24] Um, and I need Wemby to be closer to where he was in the three wins than the three losses. What else needs to happen for them?

[24:32] I think they probably need another stretch like they had tonight where they look really good in the minutes without Weminyama on the floor. Like this was one of the first times where that really broke for them in the series. They looked confident. They were hitting shots. The ball movement was really good. The energy felt right. [24:46] And that's an area where like Kelton Johnson has become a really important player for them in the series from an energy standpoint. And as Fox has kind of faded into the background and when Harper was hurt, Kelton was one of the few guys who was consistently driving for them.

So I would say he's pretty important for them, too, and sort of counterbalancing the upswing of OKC's role players at home. [25:08] Well, we have... [25:09] Thunder by three and a half on Fandle is our game seven line. Yeah. Today's game seven line or game six line was Spurs by three and a half. [25:16] And I think the last game was Thunder by a different half. So it's just basically whoever's home is, that must be the... [25:23] Established home court advantage From a referee standpoint [25:29] So if they're not calling stuff...

[25:32] like they did today. Usually I would think that [25:34] helps OKC, but today it really helps San Antonio. Yeah. It feels like the kind of game when there's a million fouls is always better for OKC. [25:42] we'll see who we [25:45] Who will get? Today we had Zach Zarba. [25:48] I forget who else, but I'm sure we'll get [25:51] James Capers is probably the best... [25:53] ref they have maybe mark davis but hopefully it's not another tony brothers 80 fouls situation would be my my one guess we simply can't [26:03] But, [26:04] Can Dort and Caruso unleash the...

[26:08] you know, the Bruce Brothers routine. [26:10] Are they going to be allowed to do it? Are they going to ramp up their stuff on Fox and Harper? Mm-hmm. [26:16] Um, [26:17] And does Wemby have it in him this early? Yeah. [26:21] I think... [26:22] If he does, we're going to have four days to talk about a Spurs-Knicks finals, and it's just going to be a Wemby fest. [26:28] You're going to have, [26:28] the new generational superstar here, and then you're going to have [26:32] the most famous team we have other than the Celtics and the Lakers trying to win their first title in 53 years.

And it's going to be about as good from a, [26:40] from a hype finals as we're going to have. [26:43] Well, it's already been a Wimby fest. I mean, have you been listening to this podcast? Have you listened to the group chat? Like it's, it's all we can all talk about. Cause we're, I mean, games like this are why, you know, it was a totally different kind of dominance than I think a lot of people were calling for. There was a lot of like, how do you get Wimby closer to the basket?

How do you get him attacking more? Turns out he can just beat you this way too, on some nights. And if he's going to be hitting step backs against Isaiah Hardenstein, that might just be it. Like that just might be your season right there. Uh, I, [27:10] I really can't wait for this. I do think as far as the OKC balance of all that physicality and what the refereeing looks like, even if they're giving a lot of leeway on that stuff, I think Lou Dorges has to play less. The self-destructive possessions that we've been talking about with this game...

[27:25] There were like maybe five to seven of those in the first half alone between... [27:30] The hijacking possessions from three, like looking off of swing passes that he should have made and taking his own. He like flopped really badly on defense, like trying to sell a moving screen that then led to a wide open three. There's just so many possessions like that where I think in a game seven. [27:46] You can't leave anything to chance. It needs to be like a Caruso playing 36 minutes and a Ludoort playing... [27:54] 10 to 15 minutes.

Even this felt like too much. [27:58] Two for 11, one for nine for three in 22 minutes. It was a minus nine. [28:02] Even if you look at all his games in May... [28:05] He's only scored 10 points once. [28:07] 6-3-10-6-5-8-0-2-7-5. [28:13] eye test wise doesn't look like the same guy from last year. He's a little bit older. [28:17] And he's like a running back or a tight end who has a lot of miles on him. And he has a team option on him next year. [28:23] that I'm sure is weighing over his head too.

Like, [28:26] He's playing for his next contract. He just has looked out of sorts this whole time. I thought, I've said this before, [28:33] I thought he was the reason... Him and Caruso were the reasons... [28:36] They won that game four in Indiana, which I think if they lose that game, I don't think they win the series. No matter. I don't think we get to a game seven against Halbert. And in George's defense, too, they really didn't need his scoring until this point. In the first two rounds, the Thunder were doing just fine.

Going basket for basket. Shea was scoring at a much higher level. Chet was a more versatile, unlocked offensive weapon. Although he's kind of tilted up as the series has gone on, I think, with the offensive rebounding in particular. [29:06] shit for them they are so desperate for offense and Lou Dort is he is contributing to the strangulation that's happening there [29:13] Yeah, I don't love plus minus, but even in the game the other night, [29:17] 18 minutes minus four in a game that they won by 13. Yeah. [29:21] And then what was he in this last one?

[29:25] Yeah, minus 16 in 17 minutes. [29:28] I'm with you. I wonder, like, this is one of the things. I mean, I love so many things about a game seven. [29:34] You're just making different decisions than you're doing all year. Yeah. It's like, you're not there to, you don't care if feelings are hurt in a game seven. It's like, Hey Lou Dort, you're going to play eight minutes tonight. And that's just how it's going to go. Hey Caruso, you might play 32. We'll see what, [29:48] what Wemby can pull out of him from a, from a minute standpoint.

I don't really understand his, how he's tired one day and then not tired the next. But when I saw him dressed, what was he dressed like a, like a monk today? Yeah. Yeah. [29:59] What was that outfit? I think it was, no? Throwback to... [30:03] Where did he go to talk to the monks? Tibet? [30:07] Shout out to everyone from Tibet. [30:10] With that outfit? [30:12] That's really something. All right, so your prediction, or you don't want to predict? I think OKC will win. [30:20] I don't feel great about it.

Clearly the line between these two teams is very thin, but then varies wildly in terms of what the actual margin of victory is. I think for me... [30:29] The shooting of the role players tilting back OKC's way, as it seems like it just will when they go back home and every other game. [30:36] the nerves kind of playing into their favor, having been in games like this before, and specifically for Shea. When it comes down to [30:44] Who do you feel confident will have the lift and the balance in their game in those moments?

I do think you tilt a little toward the experience of someone like the Thunder in this case. And I do think that guys like Chet have made just enough of a change over the course of this series. He's been good defensively pretty much the whole way through, but he's finding enough ways to score where I'm like, I can kind of see the whole picture of a Thunder win coming together, even though based on tonight's game film, you would never expect it. Who do you think the Knicks want to win? [31:14] I think the Knicks want [31:16] the most injured version of the Thunder to win possible.

[31:20] Like a banged up, worn and torn thunder. Yeah. I don't think... Even... [31:25] with how they played in the regular season and the cup with the Spurs and all that, both of the teams, the Knicks and the Spurs were in such different places. Then the idea of grappling with this version of Wemby is such a unique challenge and such a daunting one that I, I don't think anyone necessarily wants that versus, uh, [31:41] The Thunder are a great team. [31:42] incredibly formidable defense even still, but you see the state that J-Dub is in.

You see that J. Mitchell isn't on the floor, and you see kind of like what that does to their offense to lack any kind of supplementary options whatsoever. [31:54] I think the Knicks would prefer that sort of matchup than trying to figure out the Spurs. [32:00] I'm leaning OKC as well. [32:04] It would be unusual. [32:06] For a team this young. [32:08] to come back from 3-[redacted address] against the defending champs. [32:13] But you just made the point. [32:16] These aren't really the defending champs of J-Dubb. [32:19] is just going to basically not be playing.

Yeah. I mean, I, at this point, like whatever he was doing tonight, I'd rather just not play him and ride with the guys I have. Hmm. [32:27] Um, [32:28] I wouldn't be surprised if Game 7, he plays that first three-minute blip, and then you never see him again. They try it for a second just to see if there's any more... [32:38] traction there, but if it looks like this, I don't think he can play much in that game. [32:44] Unbelievable stuff. Zach Lowe and I are going to be going live on Netflix.

[32:49] after game seven. So my Sunday night pod [32:52] Um, this weekend is going to be a Saturday night pod. Um, we're just going to, [32:58] Just going to go for it. We'll see how it goes. Before you and I go, Rob Mahoney. [33:03] The lottery reform thing, House and Jacoby and I are about to talk about that after the break, and I'm going to give my thoughts to them. But the lottery reform, they really went for it. They did a bunch of stuff. There was one piece that we didn't talk about in the next segment that- [33:15] It looks like the second round is going to reverse the, [33:19] In order from...

I didn't even see this. Yeah. Now, it hasn't been confirmed in the reporting yet, but it was one of the things they voted on. [33:27] that basically if you have the 16th pick, you'll have the first pick in the second round and, [33:32] Um, [33:34] My, spoiler alert, my thoughts were, all this sounds great until we end up with the 1993 situation of the Magic winning twice in a row. Yeah. Do you like this 3-2-1 thing? [33:46] I like elements of it. I think there are parts of it that, especially in the transition, feel super clunky and maybe borderline unfair to some of the teams that have been operating under the assumption of the league as is as they try to put their teams together.

The Grizzlies in particular, they get such a raw deal because of the trade that they made with the Jazz, where they have the Jazz's pick. Right. [34:09] I feel like most of the other widespread overhauls of a system like this in NBA history are usually stationed a couple years out for exactly this reason. It's like, okay, we got to let the pick protections expire. We got to get through this cycle of transactions. And then the changes will start. I applaud a more urgent dealing. [34:26] But the trade-off for that is like, I don't know how you could explain this to the Grizzlies.

They're like, oh, I'm sorry. I know you thought you were getting what was going to be like a top five pick from the Jazz potentially in the future. But you're just fucked. [34:38] Well, and then the other side of it is like you're Indiana – [34:41] You trade... [34:43] your first rounder this year that you lose because of the protections. [34:47] And then you trade your 29 first as well. [34:50] And then all these rules come in. [34:52] And now that 29 first is a much better pick than it was.

I feel like. [34:57] The picks that [34:59] really weren't like from the shittiest teams that were that next level of like playoff teams or French playoff teams. Like if you have like, [35:06] Miami's first round pick. Yeah. Right. [35:09] We have Golden State's first round pick or who knows, even having the Celtics pick in 2029. [35:15] All of a sudden, those picks gain value. Yes. And then the other piece of it where... [35:20] Normally, the Celtics had those Nets picks a couple times. [35:24] And there was one year... [35:26] When, uh, [35:27] I think it was the [35:29] I can't remember which one of them, but Brooke Lopez was just on a heater.

And it was like, we're going to get the top three pick from the Nets. And then Brooke Lopez was just going nuts for like two straight months because the Nets had nothing to play for. And they played into a little bit of a later position. Yeah. [35:44] Now it's like, [35:45] You could have a team's pick. They could play into that four to 10 spot. And now you have better odds than to pick anyway. So I don't know. It's there's they really, really blew this up in ways that I don't even know what all the ramifications are going to be.

I'm surprised like you that they didn't wait a year. [36:02] and just say like, maybe even with the top five protection or whatever, you know, can't win two years in a row. Why not start that in 2027? We've seen that again with almost every other giant rule change in the league. [36:13] I mean, this is going to have, I would think, massive repercussions on the trade market in general for exactly what you outlined with the picks, right? Like any mid-level team is going to talk themselves into holding on to a pick because it could be immensely valuable under this new odds standard.

And so I'm like, I'm cool with that as someone who like, I like talking about the games more than the potential trades. But I hope the league is okay with the fact that so much of the interest in the NBA is driven by who is the player your team can get. And I just think we're going to see fewer trades as a result of this. [36:43] It's going to really sap a lot of the energy out of really the ability for these teams to deal with each other. If it's all just player for player and there's really not a lot of sweetening involved with the picks.

[36:54] All right, I'm taking a break, and then House and Jacoby are coming on. We're going to do a mailbag, but we talk about lottery reform at the top. [37:00] More importantly for you, not only can we hear you on group chat on the Ringer NBA show, [37:05] But you're going live on Sunday. [37:08] For, uh, [37:09] for the season or series finale of Euphoria. We are not sure. Season finale, series finale, we have no idea. But you're going to be live on our Ringer TV YouTube channel. [37:20] You and Joanna Robinson.

Yes. Was it an hour and a half? How long do we think this show's going to be? I think it's confirmed. It's over 90 minutes. Oh, my God. We're going to be going live at 830 Pacific. Come along. Maybe every character will be dead. Maybe we'll be setting up like a weird backdoor pilot season four. I don't know what's going on with this show anymore, but I can't wait to find out. They can't torture Jacob Elordi anymore because he's been killed off, right? Can they torture his corpse? Spoiler alert if you're not caught up on euphoria.

It's not going well for Jacob Elordi right now. Just kidding. [37:50] Well, it's gone terribly. It's true. I don't think it could go worse. Correction, it's going very well for Jacob Elordi, who no longer has to be doing acting in one room by himself on the show anymore. But for Nate Jacobs, he's having a rough go. [38:04] You guys are bigger. You and Joanne are bigger fans of this season than I was. My daughter is laugh half full on everything. So she's like, no, no, it's good. It's good. I don't think it's been good.

[38:14] I think you can really feel them filming in different [38:17] parts of [38:19] You know what I like on a TV show? When the best characters are all together for scenes. Imagine it. Yeah, a little radical. The other thing we're doing this weekend, because I'm on Saturday night with Zach, [38:29] So Rewatchable is now moving to Sunday, and we did 2001. So that is coming as well. 2001, A Space Odyssey will now be running Sunday Night for Rewatchables. Rob, thanks for staying up with me. Great to see you. We're going to take a break, come back with House of Jacoby.

Thanks, Bill. [38:45] The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel giving you better payouts on same-game parlays, all NBA playoffs long. More ways to build and more value every time you play. Stack your picks your way, every game, every matchup, every moment, spreads, player points, threes, unders, whatever you want. Build it all into one same-game parlay. Go for bigger payouts. [39:04] If you're betting NBA same game parlays this postseason, do it on FanDuel. More options, better payouts, all NBA playoffs long. Head to com slash BS. [39:15] to get started.

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[40:29] There's going to be 37 balls total. [40:33] The bottom three teams will get two instead of three. They're calling it the relegation zone. [40:39] Um, [40:40] They can't fall lower than the 12th pick from what I can gather. And, um, [40:45] I don't know if I like this or not. [40:47] I like it more than I did a month ago. [40:50] But I still feel like House's Wizards, for instance, if they if you had tried the whole year, how many games would you have won House? [40:57] If you'd really tried, [40:58] 20-ish.

I mean, with the original roster with CJ McCollum, because they went on a stretch where they won five of seven games at the end of December into early January. Like, hey, CJ, great to see you. Thank you for everything. They literally traded him after that stretch of success. But I have a more important question, which is to Kobe, which is, how many times has he tried the 3-2-1 method with his wife? [41:22] Bye. [41:23] Ha ha ha ha. [41:25] Has you been in the relegation zone? The answer is yes. I've definitely been in the relegation zone.

Well, here's the thing. You mentioned the McCollum trade. [41:35] So one of the benefits of this, I guess, would be that we're going to see less deadline trades and giveaways. And we're going to see less of just Anthony Davis getting traded for nothing or like what the Bulls did. [41:46] From the Bulls, like... [41:48] Do I trade Desumu and do I trade Kobe White if... [41:52] It's not really technically going to make me that much worse. And I'm going to be in that four to 10 range, which is going to have the most ping pong balls anyway.

Are we going to see guys get... [42:01] given away? Are we going to see, conversely, teams that are worried about being in the relegation zone [42:06] trying to trade for players that will help them. There's all of these ramifications to this that I'm trying to wrap my head around, Jacob's. But the biggest thing, and we were all alive for this, was the 93 lottery. [42:18] when [42:19] They did 66 balls and they did, it was 11 teams in the lottery. House remembers this. We were both out of college. [42:26] And it basically was the most simple way you could do it.

The worst team got 11 balls. Second worst got 10. [42:32] Third worst got nine and went all the way down to the best of the worst teams was Orlando, who got one ball. They had a one in 66 chance. [42:40] And they got Chris Webber. [42:42] who they then traded for Penny Hardaway and three first-round picks, and everyone lost their fucking minds. Do you remember this? [42:48] Because they got Shaq the year before, then they got Weber, and everybody was like, oh my God, how can this happen? And that led to 30 years of lottery reform, Jacoby.

So why wouldn't that happen again with this new system? [43:01] Well, I don't know. [43:02] A couple things. Number one, that's not the biggest thing. The biggest thing is that they're going to televise it. [43:05] Like we were talking about this last time I was on. Oh, live in person. Like you got to remember like this, you know, Jacoby, the TV producer, I've got to put my producer hat on here. Like this is now a television event. [43:14] Instead of like them doing it in some back room and then like a host reading it.

That to me is the biggest thing. It's like, it'll be a really fun thing to watch. Franchises change like right there in the moment instead of like, it is a little stale when like Erson Young has it in a briefcase or whatever. And it's like in this secret room. I like the idea that it's going to happen live on television. It's going to be a television event. The second best thing about this. Well, hold on. We figured it's going to be 37 balls. Yeah. [43:40] And just one pops out and that's it.

Like they're not going to do the complicated four balls thing. It'll just be one. [43:47] Yeah, it'll be like, I imagine it'll be like, like watching like the, the lotto on like the, the, the five o'clock news when we were kids, there'll be like some hot girl, just like the ball pop up. It'll have like a, way easier to fix house. Here's the thing. Jacoby, uh, the most recent draft was very dramatic. Um, and I know that the, that people knew the results. I didn't know the results. Um, yeah. [44:11] And it was it was live enough for me.

I mean, it was very, very the last five picks as a fan of, you know, the wizard was I was on the edge of my seat. I was barely breathing. That's fair. But that's why we need the actual GMs out there, the people at the most at stake in real time. What was your second favorite thing, Jacob's? [44:31] Easily. And my pod brother, Chris Vernon, it was not unanimous. The governor voted 29 approved and one did not. And the Memphis Grizzlies were like, fuck this. I love it so much. And that all has to do with the Utah pick we've discussed.

But I just love the idea that the Grizzlies are just like somehow the Grizzlies get screwed no matter what. [44:54] Well, the thing is, in a fantasy league, if you change the rules, that's dramatically for the next year where people have future stuff. [45:00] There would be a lot of arguments and angry emails going back and forth about, well, I have three first round picks in the minor league draft next year. Now you're changing rules. I mean, this is bullshit. You're trying to screw me. [45:09] But somehow that didn't happen in the NBA.

They did add the top five restricted thing. They did add the you couldn't win the picks two years in a row, the first pick. [45:18] So I like that stuff, but... [45:22] I don't know. I feel like this could... [45:25] lead to some result. [45:27] that we're all completely horrified by. [45:29] Right. [45:30] Like OKC having somebody's pick who's the 10th pick and then OKC ending up with the first pick or just some sort of thing where they're like, oh, this was the worst case scenario and it happened because that's what happened with the Chris Weber thing.

I don't mind it, though. I don't mind the idea of a relegation zone and teams being humiliated. [45:47] House's team should have been humiliated the last couple years, and it finally happened with Bam out of Bios. They were humiliated. [45:54] All they're doing was responding as rational actors to a system that they didn't create. [46:00] but they certainly leveraged the opportunity. [46:04] So we'll see what set of opportunities. Sounds like we all kind of like it. [46:08] Well, it's an improvement. And also, like, all NBA changes, they're just, like, floating out ideas to see how the public reacts to it.

And this has got, like, I read the thing, it's called, like, a sunset. [46:19] provision. So it actually is only in place for until the 29 year. So they can't change it. If something goofy happens, they're sort of being like, we're testing this. It's a three-year test drive and we'll reevaluate in three years, which I kind of like too. [46:32] The whole concept of watching your team suck ass shit, [46:35] for six months and then falling into the relegation zone. [46:39] is really rough. [46:43] We really got to... Because there's going to be some fan bases.

If that had happened to Indiana this year... [46:49] They don't have Halbert and they lose Turner. They have a bunch of injuries the first half of the year. [46:54] And just by no fault of their own, they ended up bottom three and had two balls instead of three. That's rough. [46:59] Well, they got the functional equivalent of that. I mean, for all of that pain, they got Zubach. Oh, yeah. You're right. They drafted Zubach. Richard's going to apologize again. [47:09] I'll tell you this. [47:11] I'll pass along some intel that's been floating around.

[47:14] Ooh. [47:15] Um, [47:16] Apparently the Kings love Acuff. [47:19] which I don't think is the super secret there at 7pm. [47:22] And the Clippers have five and don't need Acuff because they have – [47:26] They have a point guard already. [47:28] And it would be really easy for them to flip picks and for them to end up with a little extra something something from Sacramento, which – [47:34] I guess it would be some sort of swap or future pick, whatever. [47:37] They could turn that Zubac pick into the seventh pick, Indiana's 20-29 pick, and then something from Sacramento, the best team in the league to trade for, which would make it one of the better trades we've had.

[47:49] Right. [47:49] just for Zubats, who's like, I like Zubats. I voted for him 13 years ago, but that's [47:54] An incredible trade. I have to get off some stuff that I forgot to do on Tuesday. [48:00] Um, biggest losers from the Knicks Cavs sweep. [48:04] in the East. I'm just going to read this to you in no particular order. Speaking of Sacramento, [48:11] Did you see this? This was floating around a little bit about Sacramento, the 2026 finals. If San Antonio makes it, it could be Mike Brown against Aaron Fox.

25 Halliburton was the best guy in a finals team. [48:24] 24, Luca was the best guy on a finals team who they passed up for Marvin Bagley. [48:29] And then 2023, Michael Malone... [48:33] was the coach of the team that won. House, do you have anyone from Sacramento that could throw the Wizards into this for 27? [48:39] I saw that. I don't think. [48:41] I really admired it. But, you know, it only parallels... [48:46] Washington, this Washington franchise, I think the streak is now up to [48:51] 18 straight finals, 19 straight finals, where a former wizard is going to participate in the finals.

But the kings are the gift that keeps on giving. That's where our focus should be. It's appropriately there. And let's just let them keep doing what they're doing. It's very good for the basketball. It's very good for the narratives. It's very good for our podcasts, like the Over Under podcast at the beginning. It's one of the only things we got right. [49:19] Zach Lowe was the most vicious I've ever seen Zach Lowe. He really loved it. It went dark. It was like watching a TV drama when the cop goes dark and starts doing weird shit.

[49:30] I feel like you guys should be in the relegation zone because of that over-unders podcast. We probably should. I mean, I'd be fine with it. We've only got to pick 25 of the teams. Jacobes, we dealt with Sacramento. I think Vivek's a nice guy. I've always run. Anytime I run to, he's a super nice guy. I'm not sure he should own an NBA team. I'm pretty sure at this point. But we dealt with him for that Grantland thing we did. [49:51] when they picked Stauskas, which was one of those mini documentaries...

[49:55] that we had, I forget what year was that, like 2011 or 2012? I was at 13, yeah. Yeah, 13, they let us in their draft room, [50:03] And it was clear nobody wanted to take Stauskas instead, except for Vivek, who overruled everyone. It's like Stauskas, Stauskas. And it became this great internet moment. And he's just been giving us comedy ever since. [50:15] Nothing was better than the maybe we should play four guys on defense thing. It was like, what? I forgot about that. It's like some things that shouldn't be said out loud.

But they actually came to us for that. [50:29] We will give you full access to our draft room. We're like, sure. That's a big, a pretty respected it. All right. So Sacramento is a loser. [50:37] Detroit's GM not doing anything at the trade deadline, which we all killed them on on every podcast we have. Why not? [50:44] But I really wonder if they watch that going, fuck, if we'd had one more score. [50:48] James Harden, [50:51] who I thought took a proper pounding from everybody the last couple of weeks. But, [50:56] He's four straight trades now where the team that got him probably has real regrets after the trade.

[51:02] What is, what's the equivalent of this house? Like what food order is the, I regret it the next day food order, but it seemed like a great idea at 830 at night after three drinks. I'm going to say this with love in my heart. I'm going to say this respectfully. The answer for me personally is Kentucky fried chicken for some reason. [51:20] it just decimates me. And I only order it under the circumstances you just described. If I'm having fried chicken and I'm sober, then I order Popeyes because Popeyes is by far.

And then if, you know, Popeyes isn't around, it's Bojangles. I mean, the South, I'm where I have access. But