Trump Sabotages Trump Agenda

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[01:33] We'll also talk about Zoran Mamdani's House candidates going three for three in New York's primaries on Tuesday and why that's causing some Democrats to panic and Republicans to smile. We'll do a quick check in on D. Vance's charm offensive and whether it's winning over his wife. And then Gina Hinojosa, the Democrat running to be governor of Texas, stops by to talk about her race against Greg Abbott and why she might become Texas's first Democratic governor in nearly 40 years. [02:03] Subscribing to Friends of the Pod if you haven't already.

You get ad-free episodes of this pod and all your favorite Crooked Pods. Plus, you get subscriber-only shows like Polar Coaster with the one and only Dan Pfeiffer. And I hear you guys are back at it. You did another Polar Coaster this week, right? We did. It came out this week. We talked a little bit about the New York races that you and I are also going to talk about. We also talked about the politics of abortion four years after Dobbs. Excellent. Everyone check that out. You can get it if you subscribe.

You also get our extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends. [02:33] Excellent sub-stack newsletters, and you get to be feeling good about supporting a proudly independent pro-democracy media company. So check it out, com slash friends. All right, let's get to the news. Donald Trump made some real progress this week trying to sabotage his Republican majority in Congress. Minutes before, he was scheduled to appear at a signing ceremony for a landmark housing affordability bill that passed with, [02:58] huge bipartisan majorities. The president announced that it was canceled and that he won't be signing the housing legislation until Congress passes the SAVE Act, which is the bill that would require all Americans to show passports or birth certificates in order to register to vote and has failed to pass in the Senate.

[03:18] five times now. The housing bill would reduce barriers to building new homes and limit the ability of big investors to buy up single family homes, ideally lowering the price of housing down the road. [03:31] But alas, Trump doesn't want to give anyone the impression that he and his party are focused for even a second on affordability. So no housing bill this week. Trump elaborated on his thinking in an Oval Office appearance a little later in the day. Let's listen. [03:45] Basically it's the Save America Act. Everybody wants it, everybody is it, including Democrats.

I said I'm not signing the housing bill, I want to see what happens with Save... Look, the housing bill [03:58] I made billions of dollars with housing. I know housing better than anybody, maybe anywhere. It's all about the interest rate. Lower the interest rates, you can have all the housing you want. But you have to understand, I don't want to hurt people that own houses, too. Affordability. We're doing great. The Democrats gave us a tremendous affordability problem, and we're reducing prices a lot. [04:26] I'm a billionaire. [04:28] to help other people who already own homes.

Take it from me, successful slumlord on how to deal with housing prices. So considering that the housing bill will become law in 10 days, even without Trump's signature, and that if he does decide to veto it, Congress will. [04:47] has the numbers to override a veto. Um, [04:51] What was Trump thinking when he decided to do this? What's the what's going on here, Dan? You know, there's been this debate over the years whether Trump is crazy or crazy like a fox. This is just crazy. [05:03] Like just put yourself in the position of Republicans, right?

You're a vulnerable Republican. You're like a Susan Collins or a Dan Sullivan, or you're one of these Republicans like Mike Lawler in a purple district. You wake up on Wednesday morning. [05:13] Here's what your day looks like. Democrats in the middle of a giant fight because we've elected some socialists in New York City. You're about to have a signing ceremony for a massive bipartisan bill. [05:24] That would be signed by Donald Trump, but written in part by Elizabeth Warren that will address housing prices. It'd be a real, actual, tangible accomplishment.

You could take the voters to say, like, I'm trying to do something to deal with your cost of living crisis. [05:40] Instead of that, Donald Trump just minutes beforehand sends out an insane truth, canceling the signing ceremony, stomping on both the Democrats' bad message, the Republicans' good message. [05:50] Because he has a near fatal attraction to a bill that no one likes – [05:55] And if it were to pass, it would make it harder for Republicans to win elections. [05:59] Thank you. [06:00] It is wild. First of all, let's just talk about the Save America Act, which he hasn't called it.

It was the Save Act, then he changed it to the Save America Act. It's also supposed to ban mail-in voting nationwide. I think that's part of it, too, or that's one of the add-ons that he included himself. [06:30] It is wild to me that no one has told him, none of his political advisors have told him that actually this bill would probably hurt Republicans because it would make it harder for the lower income Americans, many of whom vote for Donald Trump and vote for Republicans now, to register to vote because not everyone has their passport lying around.

[07:00] I mean, it would end, under current form, basically end online voter registration and automatic voter registration. We've talked about this before. [07:20] Not that many Americans have a majority of Americans do not have passports. The ones who don't have passports are disproportionately working class and didn't go to college, which has been the core of the Trump base. But it is like I just so there's a bunch of different things going on here. It can't pass. Right. They tried several times. It cannot pass. There doesn't have the there aren't 60 votes, obviously, and there aren't 50 votes to eliminate the filibuster.

[07:43] And then even if it were to pass, it would be bad for Republicans. And at no point in these various issues, [07:50] junctures, does Trump seem to understand – like – [07:54] It's just... [07:55] It's like, it's true. It's delusional. The whole thing is delusional. And it seems I, his obsession with this seems genuine. Like he seems, maybe it's because it's something he wants that he can't get. [08:05] That's what bothers him because up until this point with this Republican caucus, he's been – [08:10] With the exception of the Epstein files, what he has wanted, he has got.

You want to confirm a bunch of fucking dunderheads to be in charge of the military and health and human services? We'll do that. You want us to stand idly by while we prosecute people? We'll do that. [08:24] But here's the thing he wants and he cannot have. And it seems to be driving him even more bananas than usual. I also think that all all these things he wants to do with voting in the election, he is being told or has been also told by the courts that he can't do via executive order.

But you can tell that if he doesn't get the Save Act passed, he's still going to try to do a lot of this shit around the election, which should alarm everyone, of course. On the housing bill, though, like the thing is going to become law. [08:54] before we started recording, Mike Johnson said that they will be transmitting. He talked to Trump and that they will be transmitting the legislation to Trump. So I assume, although I shouldn't assume, but seems like he might just sign it after all. But even if he doesn't, it becomes law.

Great. It's good legislation. His opportunity to take credit for it is sort of gone now. And it's not like people are going to feel the effects of this housing bill, certainly not by [09:24] it's just sort of reducing barriers to building more affordable housing and sort of changing some of the formulas for how the federal government gives money to states. And now it's going to be based on, you know, whether they've actually produced more housing and built more housing. So, [09:39] They can still take credit for it, but I don't think Trump's going to be taking credit for it.

But even then, so the... [09:46] When you've like... [09:47] We'll get into this, but as we know... [09:50] a bill that does not actually impact people's lives has limited political impact. But the moment when people pay attention is the signing ceremony. 10 days from today, [09:59] Thursday is the 4th of July weekend. Hmm. [10:03] Which seems like a bad time to get attention for your bill. Well, also, apparently the Wall Street Journal has him saying, Trump saying to someone, one of his advisors, at my rallies, no one cares about the housing bill at my rallies.

But when I say save America, then they can't sit down. And then apparently Punchbowl has four sources saying that Trump said to Mike Johnson directly, no one gives a shit about housing. [10:33] ago. Like literally like affordability is the top issue. And then when you dive into affordability, like sometimes it's groceries and gas, sometimes it's housing, but housing is, I think it's like one of the, maybe the top two or three concerns of, of most American voters. And particularly younger voters, like this shows up in focus groups. It shows it at like, yes, is it true that people are not cheering for the 21st century road to housing act?

Of course. [10:58] Would it be helpful for... [11:00] For Republicans and Democratic incumbents to go to voters and say, here is a thing, a bipartisan accomplishment I had that is addressing your concern, even if you're not feeling it. Absolutely. And Trump is just making that messier for Republicans because he's having some sort of insane temper tantrum over a bill they can't pass. [11:19] After canceling the bill signing, Trump did attend his previously scheduled lunch with Senate Republicans, which went about as well as you can imagine, given the circumstances. According to Senator John Kennedy, Trump was, quote, mad as a murder hornet and berated Republicans for not supporting him on an Iran vote, which then led to a shouting match with Bill Cassidy, who Trump recently drove from office.

[11:49] Cassidy refused and raised his voice. Trump called him a lunatic. Cassidy then referred to Trump as brother and Trump told him he wasn't his brother. And Cassidy eventually sat down. [12:03] John Kennedy later said that the meeting was a success because, quote, no one got stabbed. [12:08] which is an excellent bar to set um trump also apparently isn't done trying to force republicans to eat shit on iran uh the administration just asked congress for 88 billion dollars in funding uh which would mostly help pay for the war how do you think that's going to go over dan well before we get to the war funding um in this meeting and the punch bowl reporting on it and punch bowl

[12:38] of these sorts of things. It seems like no one pushed back on Trump on the SAVE Act, even though – [12:44] Every Republican senator, with the possible exception of Mike Lee and maybe Rick Scott, know it can't pass. [12:49] None of them would say it to Trump's face, which is why they're in this mess to begin with, which is a pure sign of weakness and failure from John Thune. Yeah. Like you have him in the room. This is the big problem. You can't pass anything. The House, it's why we should mention Trump's got everyone so ginned up on this that Anna Paulina Luna has stopped – will not allow anything to pass on the House floor until the Senate passes the saved act, which is something that doesn't make a lot of constitutional sense.

It's like I'm talking about a bank shop. Yeah. So it's like they can't pass the rule. They can't pass anything. [13:19] to pass the appropriation bills. They have to go home on Friday because they can't do anything. And she's demanding that they attach the SAVE Act to either the FISA bill or [13:29] or the defense authorization bill, which the Senate will then take out in both those cases. But so the whole thing is you have, Trump has got everyone shined up about this. [13:37] But no one will say to his face why this can't work.

[13:41] It is one thing for his terrible... [13:44] slavish, obsequious advisors to not say it, but here are... [13:47] Members of Congress, senators who are not up for reelection this year, maybe some of them are not up for reelection ever again, who are incapable of mustering the courage to say to one man a simple math fact. [14:01] And it's like they could have even they could have even talked beforehand and said, all right, I'm going to bring it up. But back me up if I do. Yeah. Those strength in numbers.

[14:10] Still nothing. So like Bill Cassidy, I guess, got up and yelled at him about the Iran war powers. Yeah. Yeah. [14:16] And then changed his vote. [14:46] Bye. [14:48] Unbelievable. Does Susan Collins not fight for that? [14:51] Uh, oh. [14:53] Interesting. [14:55] Did she vote for the second? She had to have voted for the second impeachment. Maybe she didn't. I mean, look, in fairness, we have barely covered the main Senate race this year. So maybe Susan Collins got smart and just didn't go to the lunch. She probably didn't go to like if I were Susan Collins, I would stay clear of any anywhere where Donald Trump was like that would just be that's got to be a base like a campaign 101 kind of thing.

[15:21] So here's the thing now with this Trump and the GOP Congress. I'm wondering, like, how much all this matters because – [15:27] Not many actual work days left between now and the midterms. They're going to go home for the 4th of July break. They're going to come back. There's going to be August recess. Then they come back. Then everyone's campaigning. And then it's November before you know it. Trump seems intent on sabotaging any chance of anything passing before Election Day. I see it. It seems hard to believe that this $88 billion crisis.

[15:51] war funding supplemental is going to pass, even though they thought they were really clever and included some Ebola funding in it to try to get Democrats to vote for it. It doesn't seem like anything else. It doesn't seem like the Save America Act is going to pass. But then the question is, does any of that matter? In terms of the politics of the midterms? That's an interesting question, because I don't think... [16:16] There's any sort of bill, even this housing bill Republicans could pass that would dramatically change. [16:23] the political dynamics here.

Look, I think if you're an incumbent member of Congress and you can pass something that addresses people's number one concern and you can talk about that on the trail or in a debate or in an ad, that's better than nothing. And so this is an opportunity cost for the way Trump stepped on the housing bill. What I think probably matters here is they're going to need to pass this supplemental, which is politically toxic. In that CVS poll, 69% of people think the war hasn't been worth the cost. We haven't even paid the $88 billion yet.

So when [16:53] the $88 billion number is going to get worse. [16:55] And [16:56] So they need – and it will be on reconciliation. So they need 50 votes. And in our old world, we used to be like, well, Susan Collins doesn't have to vote for it and she'll be fine. But now you've got a bunch of other Republican senators. You have Dan Sullivan. You have John Husted. You've got a bunch of people who are going to have to probably cast a vote here, and that's going to be an unpopular vote.

You're going to need everyone to do it because you're going to – you'll probably get Fetterman, I guess. So maybe you can lose three Republicans. Yeah. [17:21] But that'll be it. It's also there's also a government funding deadline. I was going to bring that up, too, is that that's the real that's looming here right before the election. It's looming. We got a loomer. We're already looming. It's only June. Yeah, it's September 30th. There's a government funding deadline. So you got that. You got this war funding supplemental. Nothing that anyone wants to pass.

That's for sure. [17:51] So [17:52] It's just an idea. It's just an idea. I'm sure it doesn't make it to his ears. [17:57] I'm sure that's already on a notepad somewhere, Dan, or a whiteboard in the White House, for sure. No, I think – and the other challenge here is I think they thought that this $88 billion war funding supplemental would – like they waited until after they thought the war was over. [18:22] And now our military is depleted and we need it. And what are you going to do now?

You know, except the war doesn't seem to be over. There was another tanker that was attacked by an Iranian drone today. It does not seem like the traffic. The traffic has increased through the strait, but it is not. [18:38] anywhere near back to normal levels. I believe like the Chevron is saying the gas prices will be elevated for a while. Trump's flipping out about that. Now he's promising to go after price gouging gas companies or open like a DOJ investigation, which as we know from the Biden administration works so well.

We tried that in the Obama years. It's us too. Yeah, it never works. But you say it anyway. And so he's going to have to deal with that. Gas prices are going to be still high. And so when so that's going to make the $88 billion [19:08] even worse to voters, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's terrible. Honestly, it probably would have been better to do it when the war was going on, so it could be about protecting the troops, and instead it's just like, the bill has come due for this unfun thing that no one wanted and everyone hated.

Yeah, and by the way, we've cut all your Medicaid, too, and everything else in the government, so good luck with that. But we do have money for ballrooms and algae, the war on algae. We're still about it for the war on algae. [19:38] when these Republicans hit the trail in the fall, [19:40] They don't have much to say except that Democrats are – as our next topic, Democrats are all crazy socialists. I don't know what else they can say about themselves and what they've done in Congress. I don't really imagine anyone talking about this housing bill because, like you said, the housing bill hasn't really had any effect on housing prices.

I don't think that's going to land very well with people. They will do – and it's not going to work, and it's going to be pretty pitiful, and it is like leading with your chin. But they will talk about the tax provisions in the big, beautiful bill. [20:10] No tax on tips, the Social Security stuff, tax cuts from middle class, which will then allow every Democrat to point out that most of the tax cuts went to billionaires and corporations and that we are paying for those tax cuts for billionaires and corporations by cutting taxes.

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Remember to head to com slash Crooked and use the code Crooked at checkout for 15% off. [23:14] Well, before we get too excited about what that midterm might look like, let's talk about what's going on on the Democratic side. Oh, fun. Speaking of inter-party turmoil, we got some fresh drama brewing. [23:26] thanks to the good people of New York City who had quite a primary on Tuesday, a slate of three candidates endorsed by Zoran Mamdani won their Democratic primaries in deep blue House districts. In the 7th district, Democratic Socialist Claire Valdez won the open seat over a pretty progressive opponent endorsed by the retiring Democratic member of Congress.

In the 10th district, Progressive City Comptroller Brad Lander defeated incumbent Dan Goldman in a race that was largely about Israel. [23:56] ran as a self-proclaimed liberal Zionist, but hit Goldman on voting against legislation to block military aid to Israel and taking money from pro-Israel lobbying groups. And then the biggest upset of the night in another race that was largely about Israel, four-term representative Adriano Espiot, head of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and the first undocumented [24:26] to a leftist community organizer named Daryliza Avila-Chevalier, a democratic socialist who also believes in abolishing prisons, police, and all deportations.

Now, there were plenty of other primaries in New York and elsewhere on Tuesday where mainstream and moderate Democrats not only won, but in some cases, fended off more progressive challengers. But to give everyone a flavor of how the DSA victories are landing in the world of politics, [24:56] Donnie and Hakeem Jeffries. Everybody's always said, no, no, we're a coalition, we're a big tent. And there's just some shit that I can't be in the same camp with. Let's negotiate the terms of a schism here. Maybe we can part under some kind of advantageous terms for both of us.

But I'm done. I'm not in that fucking political party. What is the Democratic Party, if not its voters? And what we saw yesterday evening were Democrats across the city turning out [25:26] and voting for a new kind of politics. You can't think this is... [25:31] This is a positive development in New York politics, can you? [25:36] Dems will be Dems or something like that. I don't see how you can say that. You need to reject those things. [25:44] I think it's the first of all, first of all, I've clearly rejected those things.

That's number one. Number two, and my record speaks for itself. [25:52] This is not a Dems will be Dems situation. Donald Trump is the president of the United States of America right now. Are you kidding me? I'm happy to talk about primary elections in one of the bluest cities in the country. At the end of the day, listen, our focus is going to be on ending this national nightmare in this country that America is suffering. OK, your reaction to the results and then we can do the reaction to the freak out.

[26:22] And I know you wrote a wonderful message box about this today. Thank you. Tell us about it. [26:27] Sure. So let's just start with the elections themselves. No one should dismiss this. [26:32] Like two incumbents losing election on the same night is a big deal. [26:36] Since 1946, so from 1946 to 2024, [26:40] More than 98% of incumbents have won renomination. Wow. [26:45] In the house? So it is... [26:46] In the house. [26:47] So it is very rare for members of Congress who lose their primaries, two losing on one night, one of them being the chair of the CHC, and then specifically losing to a – [26:59] Political novice with a, I would say, a colorful history of online posts.

They just seem to be in vogue this cycle for Democrats. [27:07] Like that's a big deal. We shouldn't dismiss it. [27:10] It is a – I would say the Lander-Goldman race is a little – [27:15] different in the sense that lander is a citywide elected official with high who ran for mayor's high name id and the endorsement in full support of the very popular mayor democratic socials mayor of the city and in each of these races are a little different in what drove it but i think the thing that we should take away is like so much else that's happening in this country like is happening when when progressive speed establishment candidates in the second [27:45] forcing, uh, [27:47] for saying Janet Mills out of the race, [27:50] Like there's a giant warning sign for the democratic establishment here where the support of people like Schumer or even Hakeem Jeffries is really not an asset in your campaign.

It may be a detriment. It is very clear that the – [28:04] The groups on the left, Justice Democrats, Democratic Socialists of America, our revolution, our – [28:10] out-organizing, out-fundraising, out-working, out-maneuvering the traditional party institutions. [28:18] Right, that is happening. They have captured the energy. They would be more creative. They would be more strategic. They would be more aggressive. And if you were someone in the democratic establishment, you would be more aggressive. [28:27] You should be deeply concerned about what this says about where the party is, what the standing of the party is, what the ability of the party infrastructure is to actually win elections.

So this is a big deal. Now, to Akeem Jeffries point, this is taking place in a city that Kamala Harris won by 38 points in what was a bad year for Democrats. [28:49] particularly in a city like New York. This is a very, very, very democratic city. All across the country, you're seeing [28:56] Yes, you're seeing progressive candidates win and you're seeing progressive candidates lead like Abdul Saeed in Michigan, according to the most recent polls. But you're also seeing moderate candidates in Alaska, North Carolina. I don't know if it's fair to call Sherrod Brown a moderate, but he's certainly not a democratic socialist.

He's an economic populist. [29:13] And you saw in New York, you know, just on that very same day in like New York 17, one of the most important districts in the country for Democratic Party. You have a. [29:22] a more moderate veteran candidate, [29:25] When? Right. That's the Mike Lawler district. That's the Mike Lawler. That's Kate Connolly who won that primary. And so you're seeing it's like there is a mixed picture, but there is in all the races. But there is true. It is very true that there is an antipathy through the establishment.

We can talk about why that is. There is more energy on the left and there is sort of greater tactical, strategic and organizational energy and success on the left. [29:49] among the groups on the left. I think that's all right. I also think it's useful to, um, sort of define what the freak out is about because, um, it's even more, it's even narrower, I think, than just like, um, you know, there's, there's some progressives winning in places and DSA places in moderate, the, even just the three races we're talking about here from Tuesday night,

[30:19] Valdez seems like a normal DSA candidate in the vein of an AOC or a member of the squad, right? We talked about Brad Lander. Brad Lander. [30:30] Lander is basically like a standard progressive Democrat. Yeah, standard New York City progressive Democrat. Yeah, but it also has said like, you know, after he won was like, I want to go help frontline members who are out there and I hope some of the moderates come help me and I've helped moderates before. And so like that's that's Brad Lander. [30:46] really here the panic is over.

Daryl Iza, Avila. [30:51] Chevalier. And I will just say, [30:54] She might be... [30:55] the most left-wing candidate to ever win a Democratic primary in our lifetime. There's been a lot of focus on her old tweets, which she has deleted and mostly apologized for. [31:08] I'm fine with that. My general position is to give people a chance who want to take back something they said or posted. Certainly would love to take back things that I've posted. [31:18] And I also think that some of her tweets have been taken out of context and exaggerated.

[31:22] Here's where I have a problem. [31:24] She has not apologized. [31:26] for attending an anti-Israel rally on October 8th, [31:31] October 8th, 2023, a rally that was condemned by Zoran Mamdani, AOC, and Brad Lander, who we were just talking about, who actually left the DSA because it promoted that rally, where attendees chanted that Hamas's resistance was justified the day after October 7th, the day after they slaughtered a thousand Israelis. And to this day, [31:56] She still defends attending that rally. The other problem I have, she sat for an interview with the New York editorial board last week.

Last week. [32:05] where she said she's against all deportations. [32:10] She's for open borders because, quote, bordering is a very modern construct, actually. [32:18] The borders are in our hearts and our minds. She wants to abolish prisons. [32:24] and refused to say when asked, she's got four different chances on this, refused to say that a convicted murderer... [32:31] should be sentenced to any jail time at all. [32:35] And they kept giving her another chance. Like, are you sure? But what happens to the murderer that just convicted? Yeah. [32:41] Nothing. Now, [32:43] Maybe she turns over a new leaf in Congress and like her voting record doesn't match some of these more extreme positions.

I hope so. But I think the reason I bring this up is because when Democrats get questions about this, I think the answer is easy and important to give, which is that she currently holds a range of views that go from moronic to. [33:01] to abhorrent. And not only those views not align with most Democrats in the country, [33:09] nearly all Democrats in the country. Um, [33:12] all elected Democrats, actually most elected Democratic socialists. But like, I don't even think they align with like, a lot of the people who probably voted for her.

And so like, I think people should just, you just got to say that. And I don't think you lump her in, I think it, I think it does a disservice to the other progressives and the other even DSA members to pretend that she is part of this, like, there's new energy, and it's great and whatever. [33:42] thing to have these views in the past and be like, you know what? I've learned. I've grown what she said about some of her tweets, but to sit there a week ago and be like, yeah, no prisons, no borders.

[33:51] No police. [33:52] Here's the thing. Also, who cares? Well, but I already see people doing the like, you know, like, well, we got to understand the energy. No, no, we got to understand the energy with a lot of these candidates. She is. That was a mistake. And like Mamdani endorsing her also probably a mistake. Yeah. I mean, you'll notice that when Bernie Sanders did his congratulatory tweet afterwards, he congratulated. [34:14] Brad Lander, and Clara Valdez. Oh, he did? Because Bernie's fucking smart. That's why. I mean, those are the two he specifically endorsed, but he did two, not three.

But also... [34:26] She's one member of Congress. Right. Right. This is who the voters picked. So in two years, someone's got the opportunity to challenge her. I don't think like Congress and she's a productive member. Maybe she's not. It doesn't. But it's just like, I think I'm not. I'm not saying it's the end of the world. [34:39] I'm saying that I actually think it's very easy here. Oh, yeah. What I'm saying, what don't do is like she is a she is about to be the biggest celebrity on the right of all time.

She's going to she's already like starring on Fox in every fucking segment. And it's going to be like that forever. And you know what? Most people, when they hear her. [34:57] There's tape of her saying all these things last week. When they hear that, they're going to be like, this is fucking nuts. And then if they go to Democrats, like, what do you think? And Democrats are like, it's not a big deal. Everyone's freaking out over nothing. Then you would not you would not blame the voter for being like, well, that's weird.

Why wouldn't you just say it's crazy? [35:27] Let's say it comes up. It can come up in a debate in an interview. If you're a member running in any district, frankly, but it's strictly a – [35:33] frontline member in a purple district or red district, there's no greater gift than the opportunity to [35:39] distance yourself from someone in your party. That's why I said that. Yeah. So I think – yes, like for sure. I think that the freak out – there's a couple – let's try to like break – like the freak out is – [35:53] It's not just about her.

The freak out is about a few things that are sort of political and institutional. One of them is there's always this fear that Democrats are going to nominate candidates too liberal to win the general election. That is not a fear here. No. Right. These are some of the most Democrat people are all going to Congress. Yeah, they're all going to Congress. So that's and that we are not seeing a situation where currently we'll see what people are going to have an argument about Maine, about Maine Senate. [36:23] Yet, for the most part, we have not been – the Democratic voters, not the institutions, not the groups, not the party apparatus, the voters are not picking candidates for the vote.

[36:32] Who may be too liberal to win? The two possible exceptions there are Randy Villegas, which is the DCCC picked a different candidate in that race. And then Matt Dunlop instead of Baldacci, the son of the former governor in Main 2nd District. We probably weren't running the Main 2nd District under any scenario. You need a very, very good year for that. [36:51] Unless Jared Golden had not retired. Right. Jared Golden is like Joe Manchin, right? The only person who could win that was probably Jared Golden. [36:58] The other fear is that this is evidence of – [37:02] like an upper a tea party like moment for the party.

[37:06] And there are – I think it's a bad comparison because the Tea Party was a very specific thing in time. It was about a very specific thing in time. It was largely – it was a sort of astroturfed, corporate-funded – [37:19] reaction to the election of a black president. The [37:23] But what you are seeing is the party base saying they are – [37:27] done with the establishment. They are done with the leadership. They've great skepticism. That leader, I think there's three reasons why that skepticism exists. One of it is, and it's different in every race, and it's even different in some of those races in New York.

One is... [37:43] Anger that the party has failed to stand up to Trump. Yeah. The second is... [37:49] that the party is too captured by corporate interests, too... [37:55] You know, unable, unwilling, too cowardly to take on the interests and to advocate for working people, right? That are – they're not addressing people's economic pain. And then the third reason is Israel and Gaza. And that was obviously particularly prominent in the Land or Goldman race where that was a primary point of distinction between the two of them. And you see that – In the Chevalier race with – In the Chevalier race, yes.

Yeah. [38:25] different levels in each different race around the country around those three things. [38:28] The other question is, [38:31] is the party becoming moving dramatically to the left? [38:35] Right. And I think that one is interesting because it is an incontrovertible fact that the party is more liberal than it was. [38:44] 10 years ago. Like when Obama ran for reelection in the Gallup polling, 42% of Democrats consider themselves liberal or very liberal, and 36% consider themselves moderate. Today, north of 54% consider themselves liberal or very liberal, and 34% consider themselves moderate.

Now, I could do a full podcast on how that number happens, because the moderate number stays the same, and the liberal number goes up. [39:10] And it's certainly not from conservatives becoming liberals. It's because the conservatives left the party and they're replaced by white college educated liberals who were former Republican voters. But like that is true. But in white college educated voters and just high educated, highly educated voters in general have just become more. [39:27] specifically become more liberal in their own view. Yes. And it has led to, as the party has become less liberal, [39:33] working class in its orient in its identity and frankly, its orientation, cultural issues, social issues, climate change, democracy, immigration, crime.

[39:45] LGBTQ rights have risen in priority for the party, and that has made people identify as more liberal. But it is worth just remembering that the core part of any successful party. [39:57] Democratic coalition is black voters and black voters remain. [40:02] more moderate than the party. You see this in this really fascinating Pew political typology study that came out last month. It's very clear that black and Latino voters and Asian voters are much more moderate or more moderate. I was a much more moderate, more moderate than the sort of this activist, more liberal democratic base, particularly on crime and immigration, crime and immigration.

And then the other question is, are Democrats becoming socialists? And this [40:28] And there is this Gallup poll that everyone fixates on. We showed that 66 percent of registered Democrats have a positive view of socialism. [40:36] And then in the New York Times poll that we've talked ad nauseum about, 49% of Democrats and Democrat-leaning independents – it's one sample – have a favorable view of socialism. [40:49] And interestingly enough, a plurality of every age cohort, including Democrats over 65, have a favorable view of socialism. Now, here's a pop quiz for you.

I asked Caroline this on Polar Coaster, but can you guess which group has the highest favorability of socialism? Let's see. [41:08] Young men. [41:09] Well, which age cohort? It is actually men 30 to 44. Okay. But 30 to 44 are – That's us, right? No, that's me. That's not me anymore. Thank you for pointing that out. Thank you for pointing that out. No, it's not me anymore. Fuck, I'm 40. Yeah, that's true. It was you. You just moved in. But it's actually – it's millennial – [41:26] It's millennials more than younger.

It's by about nine points, actually. It's interesting, which I think is coming of age in the Great Recession. Yeah. Well, and it speaks to sort of the question that you're raising by these maybe surprising results to some people, which is I do think it is more of a commentary on capitalism. Yeah. And the failures of capitalism, at least how people have felt that in their own lives, than a love of socialism. [41:56] do you think of when you think of socialism they think of like bernie sanders and universal health care not abolishing prisons yeah which is not necessarily a lot of socialist uh countries had a lot of prisons actually yes famously so famous yes uh so someone had someone had gulags you would say and you know and you know what every country has borders [42:21] That's true.

Every single one. Both in their mind and in reality. So I was going to say, the socialism, you hit on the key point here, which is I think it's more of an indictment of capitalism than socialism. And so I guess the question is, if you're a Democrat, how do you react to all of this? [42:37] And like the advice that I give, I've been giving candidates other people is one, you [42:45] You have to... [42:48] You have to find a way to separate yourselves from the establishment that everyone hates. Like you can't be a typical Democrat and you have to – [42:54] understand what makes people so mad about it and show that you have a solution to it or different from it.

The second thing is you don't have to embrace socialism, but you sure as hell better understand what is causing people to embrace socialism and speak to that economic pain. [43:09] And you've got to find a way to have some... [43:13] sort of [43:14] Um... [43:16] energy and excitement and authenticity in your life. [43:19] In your life. Like, what is, like, I think... [43:22] What is I think powering some of these – [43:26] That's social, but some socialists, some DSA, some more progressive candidates is they are speaking with authenticity and conviction about issues, whether it's Abdul talking about Medicare for all in Michigan, whether it's Platten are talking about how the system, the elite system has failed him and failed so many manners.

It's how Zoran has talked about cost of living. It's like there's this authenticity and conviction to it that. [43:49] Most of the people that you don't get from a lot of moderates, not all moderates for some reason, do it, but it doesn't show up in the same way. There's another two more. [43:58] reasons that I think there's so much anger at the democratic establishment right now. [44:04] One is [44:06] Thank you. [44:07] We have said for a long time now since Iraq that people, they don't want to spend money on endless foreign wars.

They don't want to lose American lives and forever wars. They also don't want to spend a lot of money because they feel like we spent, and they're right, like billions and billions and trillions of dollars on Iraq and other foreign adventures that have not worked out. [44:28] I think that is how... [44:30] most people who are upset with how Biden handled Gaza feel. Right. It is not. [44:39] Israel has no right to exist. It is why is our money being spent or being sent to Bibi Netanyahu and the Israeli government who have just...

[44:51] slaughtered thousands and thousands and thousands of people in Gaza and are now doing the same in Lebanon and that feeling cuts across a [45:00] Party. [45:01] ideology. It is not fucking horseshoe. It is not like the far left and the far right. Go sit in a focus group. Go talk to most voters. It's a very common feeling. And [45:11] The fact that people look at the Democratic establishment and don't feel like that they are on or they feel the same way or they're acting the same way is a huge fucking problem.

You also said people are mad that the Democratic establishment hasn't stood up to Trump enough. I also think Dave Weigel made this point today, a reporter at Semaphore, that they're still mad that. [45:32] the Democratic establishment fucking lost to Trump again. Like that is, I know we're all like, we don't want to go back and look back at 24 and all that kind of stuff. Like we lost to Donald Trump for the second time after the guy was convicted of crimes and sent an insurrectionist mob to the Capitol. Like, so that's the original sin.

Yeah. The people who were in charge there, people aren't going to feel too warm and fuzzy towards them. Like that is just, that to me is looming over everything. Like, yes, there's the corporate stuff. [46:02] an economic, like all that is real money in politics, establishment, all of it's real for sure. But like if we had just beaten Donald Trump, then a lot of voters would not think that. [46:12] Yeah. [46:13] And so that's going to be a big one, too. [46:24] Pod Save America is brought to you by Rocket Money.

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Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at com slash crooked. That's com slash crooked, com slash crooked. [47:33] Pod Save America is brought to you by Fast Growing Trees. Fast Growing Trees is America's largest online nursery with thousands of trees and plants for every space and climate. And they make it easy to get plants that actually work for your yard, delivered right to your door. Okay, we can sense your skepticism about ordering live vegetation on the internet, but the proof is in the plants. [47:51] Fast growing trees They're shipping them using a science The proof is in the planting The proof is in the planting It's a free punch up Proof is in the planting [48:02] Right, pudding.

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But I'm glad they're there doing good work. It doesn't mean it's not a good product. I'm just saying it's a [48:33] I gotta meet somebody. [48:36] Your plants get there. They look amazing. Like they're local. But every order is back to the live and thrive guarantee. And so the chance you do have any issues with delivery, you're covered. [48:45] I love fast growing trees, plants. We've got a bunch of them in the office. They're amazing. [48:50] They're amazing. [48:51] They're secured in the box. They're healthy when they get here. Soil's in place.

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We talked about some of these. But in Colorado, Democratic Socialist Milat Kuros is running against Congressman Diana DeGette, though that's also a safe seat even though it's in Colorado. [49:42] Sarah Rodriguez and Mandela Barnes. And in Michigan, our pal Abdul El-Sayed is in a tight Senate primary with Mallory McMorrow and Representative Haley Stevens. So it does feel like there's a little more at stake in the Wisconsin and Michigan primaries. What is your read on those? [49:58] You know, it's – [49:59] It's very hard to play the... [50:03] perspective electability game.

[50:05] The argument here is among some, and I'm not making this argument, that Hong and Abdul are less electable than other candidates on the ballot. [50:15] And in Wisconsin, there's already a movement. One of the center left candidates has dropped out and endorsed Rodriguez. And there's a movement to try to consolidate the field around Rodriguez. I honestly don't know enough about that. [50:29] that race to know, uh, [50:31] for sure that one candidate is more electable than the other. Um, [50:35] I know that's a very hard race, right? It's a very tough state.

Winning a third term in a row is always challenging for governors. So, you know, that's going to be a tough race. Michigan, the polling is, you know, Abdul is leading in the polls. [50:50] Haley Stevens is in second. The candidate that I have supported by tomorrow is in third. [50:57] There have been hypothetical tests against Mike Rogers, who's a very, very good candidate. He lost by just, I think, about 24,000 votes to Alyssa Slotkin in 24. You know, the polling shows... [51:08] that we've seen shows maybe McMorrow and Stevens a couple points more, you know, doing better against Rogers than Abdul.

I don't know what to make of that, whether that is real or not. It's not significant. It's not a dramatic difference in that. So it's. [51:21] It's hard to say. Abdul is obviously a very, very talented candidate, a very talented communicator. [51:25] Would he be able to navigate the tax that will certainly come to him as a – [51:30] as a Bernie endorsed [51:33] candidate a muslim candidate who will be attacked for his views on everything in his background he certainly is talented enough to be able to navigate that but i am not i can't look at those races and say if we nominate the you know