Jonathan Groff

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer? [00:09] Oof. Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. [00:29]. [00:34] Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We are so excited to talk to Jonathan Groff, huge fan, and what a delight.

What a just so, so talented and funny and so fun to talk to. And we're going to talk about a lot of things today. We're going to talk about horses. We're going to talk about Broadway. We're going to talk about making lasting friendships at work. We're going to talk about us both playing Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz and the different things we [01:04] Just in Time, which is open for a few more weeks on Broadway. He plays Bobby Darin. It's amazing. You have to see it. But before we do, we're going to check in with someone who knows our guest, who's worked with our guest, who loves our guest.

And that person is Gracie Lawrence. Gracie is an incredible singer from the band Lawrence. She was Connie Francis in Just in Time. And we are going to speak to her while she is in rehearsal for another Broadway show, All Out. Gracie, do you [01:34] Hi! [02:04] ubereats for orders over 60 you can save up to 20 ends february 28 2026 terms apply see app for details hello gracie okay wait sorry there's some people in my dressing room [02:34] I was in the middle of something. But it's like. It was in them.

[02:37] Oh, my God. Listeners, Jon Stewart and Abby Jacobson are flanking Gracie Lawrence right now. We got a three for a three for a sentence. I've dreamed of a three for with Amy. Oh, my God. Hi, friends. Hello, friends. What a good surprise. No, they live in my dressing room. Yeah, we share. This one, Amy. Top, top notch. Yeah. [03:07] Naturally talented. The only downside, honestly, Amy, is the drinking. Yeah. That's the part that's the only thing that's holding her back. Yeah. We don't have to talk about it. Yeah. There's actually not a podcast today.

Gracie, we're all here because we love you and we want to. [03:24] You know what? I thought that this seemed strange. I was like, why are they in my dressing room? Why am I going to call from Amy Poehler? Look at you guys. Broadway. You know, it's just rehearsal. Broadway babies. [03:37] guys let's do our thing me me me me me me me okay we actually do have to go okay love you love you we're talking about and to jonathan groff today who i know you love i love jonathan groff [03:55] In such an intense way.

Wait, I need to say something to you first. Okay, wait. Okay, wait. Okay, like, wait. Like, everyone stop. First of all, I would watch this... [04:04] this podcast in my dressing room at just in time before the show, because it was like a calming, warm hug. I would watch it with my dressing room roommate, Erica Henningsen. And we were like, the best. We'd be like panicking before we went on stage and we would watch this podcast and a calm would come over us. So Gracie, you are rehearsing right now for your new Broadway show.

Yes. You want to tell people what that is? Yes. It's a show called All Out with our mutual [04:34] Stewart and Eric Andre and Ike Barinholtz. And it's FYI, I'm coming to see it tonight. I heard that nasty little rumor. Are you really? Oh, my God, I'm going to be so. And I like to wear a very loud sweater so people can see me. And I like to make a lot of noise. [04:54] I'll find you. And I like to give thumbs up or thumbs down as the show goes on.

That's totally fine with me. I like to make a lot of uncomfortable eye contact with one audience number. And I think it's going to be you tonight. Yeah. And then I'm in the show with my band, Lawrence, which is my brother and I and six of our closest friends. And we're playing. [05:13] our original music in this show. It's super cool. And Gracie, you are... [05:19] You straddle this... [05:21] Amazing world. And one of the things I want to talk to Jonathan. Will you straddle an amazing world? Don't get dirty, little minx.

You'll watch it. Someone's listening to this before they go on and they want peaceful. They want peaceful. Totally. Okay. You're a singer and you are on. [05:39] on stage and you record and you act like you and and it's really interesting because I think Jonathan very similarly like when I look at his career he has done so many things and both of your examples of like there's no categorizing artists [05:55] uh, anymore. There's no, you know, there, there used to be this feeling that like you could only be this kind of performer or actor.

And Jonathan is a perfect example of that. Can you tell me the first time you met him and what your first impression of him was? [06:09] I met Jonathan on the first day of rehearsal of the workshop of Just In Time. [06:16] And for people who don't know, can you just tell us what that show is? Just in Time is a Broadway show. It is directed by Alex Timbers. And it is about the life of Bobby Darin. And I play Connie Francis and Jonathan plays Bobby. [06:32] played Jonathan currently plays Bobby Darin.

I played Connie Francis. And yeah, we met on the first day of the workshop. And I was really nervous, which is like a theme of my work. [06:47] life. And Jonathan walked in and the first thing I did in the day was sing with him. That was like my first [06:56] my first entrance to this show. He walked in like star of the show. Like, he was just such a star from the second he walked in. It was like, I got the right entrance from him. I was, like, watching him walk, and he put his binder down, and then he sat down next to me.

It was kind of like... And then he just... [07:13] did the Jonathan Groff thing of like making really intense, beautiful eye contact with you. Perfect. Which you'll experience. Can't wait. [07:21] He's so charming. As far as his actual like, [07:25] big [07:26] uh width and breadth of talent what what do you think makes him such a special performer i do think he's like one of the greats like one of the greatest performers of all time he reminds me of the kind of performer that [07:39] you know, is of a different era.

He reminds me of Bobby Darin. Like he is this kind of, [07:46] performer that can do it all and is like so magnetic and so charming. Yeah. His magic trick as a performer is making people feel so at ease and so comfortable and like they know him immediately. And even when he's playing bizarre weirdos, it's like you still feel really comfortable around him and you want to. He's like the most watchable person I've ever ever seen. [08:09] met. [08:10] ever on stage. Yes. And the eye contact thing, because I will tend to be like, [08:17] If someone's looking at me too long, I'm like, what?

He will lock the fuck in. [08:24] He's going to do that. Okay. He is also like... [08:28] a lover of [08:30] Like, [08:31] shenaniganry and, like, bullshit on stage. Like, he will really... [08:36] I don't know how... [08:38] He knows the right moment to do the things. [08:42] But like somehow he will violently tickle me on stage consensually. And I'll have friends at the show and I'll be like, did you guys notice when Jonathan just like fully in the middle of the scene was like. And they'll be like, no, I didn't catch that.

And I'm like, how does he like know? He just really knows. He has a playful energy. That's a tiny bit of I mean, I imagine when you just do show after show after show, you've got to keep it fresh. Yeah. [09:12] my Zoom guests to give me a question for my guests. I thought of, [09:16] a million questions because he is in some ways, [09:21] so anomalous. But given that I'm technically a new friend of his, even though I feel I know him very well, [09:29] I've noticed in this year that I've never seen him...

[09:35] frazzled or anxious or nervous. [09:41] And he's had so many occasions where he like objectively should be like, [09:48] leading a show, [09:50] you know, doing huge interviews, going to the Tonys, performing three times at the Tonys. He is, like, Yoda-like. Like, he is so... [09:59] Palm. [10:00] and [10:02] when I'm nervous, he always turns to me after I say like, I'm feeling kind of nervous. He was like, [10:08] Really? [10:09] Huh. Like he doesn't. [10:11] understand that. And I'm wondering, [10:16] Why isn't he more scared of things? [10:20] When did he, has he always been this way?

Like, did I meet him in a time in his life where he just... [10:27] really has his shit together or has he always been extremely calm like when he was auditioning for things back in the day was he like going in the room shaky or was he like [10:38] like so calm, [10:40] And like, what, if anything... [10:43] scares him now. [10:45] little bitch. Like I, I'm annoyed. It's crazy. Yeah. That's, that's a great, great question. Cause you're absolutely right. He, you never catch him working too hard, but he's the hardest worker and he's makes things.

I mean, that's to your point about like, we feel like we know him. He also makes things, [11:08] feel accessible to us. Like I think great artists do. They just, they don't overcomplicate things. No, he's not tortured. No, he's not. That's why I love him because he's such a good example, in my opinion, of the more talented you are, the easier you are to work with, period, the end. Again, there are the few eccentric geniuses, but for the most part, if you're not coming from a [11:38] Well, Gracie, that's a really, really good question.

And I think he's really good, really great. I mean, I cannot thank you enough for taking what I'm sure is your, this is probably your downtime, your eating time. You're looking at your phone time before you have to go back out there. I'm sure they're just, I'm supposed to be rehearsing something. Who cares? I'm here. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure to meet you. Take care. Bye. [12:08] visible this year is already in full swing which means you're likely being pulled in a million different directions keep the new year new me momentum going by switching to a new wireless plan from visible it's one-line wireless with unlimited data and hotspot for 25 a month taxes and fees included you heard that right 25 a month same cost every month all in verizon's 5g network it's the ultimate wireless hack to save money and still get great coverage and a reliable connection [12:38] today and cross wireless savings off your to-do list.

Terms apply. See com for plan features and network management details. Jonathan, I'm very, very excited that you're here. I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for doing this. You know, when we started the show, we were like... [12:56] who we just like thought about people that we wanted to talk to that would be good hangs. And you are definitely someone that we really wanted to talk to. I am so honored. I'm so honored. Thank you. And have we ever met? No, this is our first time. This is our first time meeting.

I mean, I'm sure you get the slot, but I do feel like I've met you. Same. Same. I know I lifted you up. Yeah, it was an off camera. It was off camera. But when you came in, we hugged and you lifted me up, which I really enjoyed. Yeah. I mean, I don't always love being lifted up. [13:26] But... [13:26] I really liked when you did it. And also people should know you're very jacked. [13:30] Oh my God. Thank you. I'll take it. Your arms were really strong. I'll take it.

My friend Susie. [13:38] Every time I would see her, I would lift her up. And then she was like, Jonathan... [13:42] Please stop lifting me. I don't want to be lifted. Yeah, yeah. Well, when you're like a short person sometimes. Yes, this was her point. In improv, you got lifted up. Which, by the way, I'm sure there's many women out there that are like, oh, you got lifted up a lot. [13:58] Good thing to complain about. [14:02] But I get it, though. There's like assumptions made. I lifted you. No, it was nice.

And then I felt like, oh, no, did I just assume? Yeah. [14:09] No, everything. I loved everything about it. Okay. I loved everything about it. Thank God. It was exciting. That was our first meeting. I know. And I'm talking to you today because you have your show tonight. Yes. And it's literally you're going to be on stage in a few hours. Yeah. Yeah. [14:26] And I have so much I want to talk to you about today. I, I, [14:29] But what... [14:30] One thing I realized is that you've done so many things so well, it's going to be hard to talk about all of them.

[14:38] but most of your life, your job, the hardest part of your day is at the end of your day. Like what, what is it like to have a full day waiting for your hardest part of the day to start? That is such a great question. And I've never thought about it like that before. I used to have a version of that with SNL, right? But, but that was once a week was the actual performance. The rest of the time was like a split, like, you know, midday to night, [15:08] the most challenging part of my day, but it's also the most joyful part of my day.

[15:13] That getting out there and getting to do it is, [15:17] It's like I'm like a kid with the high school play. That's awesome. Yeah, I get amped. And then I sleep... [15:24] very hard at night. So I think maybe I'm naturally a night person. Before we get into your life, I need to get into sleep because it's my favorite thing to talk about. What time do you go to bed? Okay. So usually the show... I'm not going to like this. I'm already worried, but the show's over at what, 10?

If you're lucky. Yeah, the show's over at 1030. Oh God. And then oftentimes part of the fun is like having people backstage. [15:54] And then I'll talk to people and hang for a bit in the dressing room. I'll get on my bicycle and, [16:04] You bike home? Yep. Should people know that? We can cut that. [16:09] Don't follow him. Suddenly I'm being followed by people on bikes. Yeah, don't follow him. That's incredible. Yeah, I bike to and from the theater. I arrive on a bike usually. That's great. And then I'm in bed probably by like...

[16:22] 12:30. 12:30 or 1:00. Okay, I like that. Yeah, I'll go home, I'll eat something, I'll watch some YouTube's. Yeah. And then I'll, I do feel when I walk in my apartment. [16:33] Like I started to go like, [16:35] Mm-hmm. Like night-night. I'm powering down. I'm dying. Yeah. And then I fall asleep and I... [16:41] Are you, I'm a, I'm a very hard sleeper. I used to be a really, really hard sleeper. I'm, I'm getting a little lighter as I get older, but yeah, I'm with you. I'm not, I don't get up in the middle of, I can go down.

I can go down. I go down. And then what time is morning time? Is it 10 AM or is it 9 AM? It's 10 AM. How did you know it was 10 AM? Well, because the 1 AM [17:11] natural wake up. 10 m. Yeah. So we're talking to you right now at like basically your lunchtime. [17:17] That's exactly right. I'm having this coffee. [17:20] Black coffee for lunch. I'm having black coffee for lunch. What is this? What time are you going to go to bed tonight? We're going to finish this.

I actually, I'm already stressed about the fact I have to go. Have to. I have the lucky privilege of going to a show tonight. [17:36] I'm going to a show and I'm already stressed about the fact that I'm not going to be in bed. In bed. I love bedtime. Ideally for me. You couldn't go to a matinee? [17:45] I know, I blew it. I love a matinee. Yeah, right, because then you can go straight to bed. And when I'm there, I'm so happy, but I'm literally counting the minutes until I can go to sleep.

Okay, but what I wanted to say, [17:57] Jonathan, now I'm starting. Okay, okay. Okay. You got the glasses on. Well, because we kind of wrote it down because... [18:06] You are such... [18:08] a nice boy. You're a good, nice boy. You to me are the embodiment of someone who is, [18:16] is [18:17] Deeply, deeply open and open. [18:20] And a good, caring, nice person. And also... [18:23] crushing it and ambitious and like, like ambition with a side of, you know, compassion, basically. You don't have to be a jerk. I love that you're saying that too.

Yeah. Because oftentimes ambition is seen as like a negative thing or like a cutthroat thing that you have to like push people aside in order to do your thing. But we're all just in our own, on our own little like track [18:53] that if, like, you know, what is it, a rising boat? All boats rise. Yeah. It's not that. All boats rise. But isn't it a rising tide? A rising tide rises all the boats. Really? A rising tide lifts all boats. A rising tide. That's your warm-up for tonight. A rising tide lifts all boats.

A rising tide lifts all boats. It does. [19:23] That was good. You matched me. That was perfect. Thank you. But it's true. It's true. Like that, that there's this, you know, you can decide. And I feel like I feel like not knowing you, but knowing so many people who love and love working with you. I feel like that is you. And so congratulations on that. I have no question. I just wanted to say that about you. [19:53] You're Kristoff and Frozen. You do so many things so well. [19:59] But through it all, through it all, I feel the sense from you of exactly what we started this conversation with, which is like there's still just like a lot of joy in getting to do what you get to do.

Yeah. Yeah. And like you hold on to that. You're grateful for it. Yes. [20:15] It's fantastic. And you work for it. And you like you find those people. I mean, you're the queen of this, of like finding those people that you love and love to make things with. [20:23] And I feel like as time goes by, I just turned 40 last year. I can feel myself like, [20:30] getting magnetized to those people later in life of like, ah, like working with Dan Radcliffe on Merrily, he like, [20:39] That was, I think, the first time I was like, oh, I've really met my match here because this guy – [20:46] loves to do this so profoundly.

And we formed a lifelong friendship with our friend Lindsay, really everyone in that company. But like Dan, Dan was like sick and gripping me. Like he like had to be out. There was like a need in him that I really related to. And I'm finding like, as time goes by and you get older, like there's such a joy in the people that we started out with, [21:16] It's such a cool thing. And Dan Radcliffe is an example of this, and you are, which is also you want, [21:22] longevity in the business.

You want to work a long time. It's the long game. Playing the long game. I can't wait to talk to you about Merrilee. It's such an incredible... [21:37] piece of art. It's so deep. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be approaching 40 and winning a Tony for a piece that is all about the circular feeling of life and like having it in real time. And so before we get there, we're going to we're going to get there. But I am so [22:01] enamored and moved by little Jonathan on the horse farm.

You grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Yes. Your dad was a horse trainer. Yeah, still is. Is. Yeah. And do you ride horses and do you like horses? [22:20] Oh, is this controversial? It's not controversial. So he does harness racing. So it's like the cart behind the horse, [22:31] And so are you in it like a large was that like a Mennonite? Yeah, my dad is his whole family is Mennonite. Wow. My grandfather was a Mennonite preacher and he kind of like was expected to take over the dairy farm because he was the oldest son.

But didn't wasn't into cows and so pivoted to horses and got really into horse racing. [23:01] Because the Mennonites were not super into the gambling aspect of his career. Oh, interesting. He wasn't shunned or anything. Yeah. But just, yeah. Yeah. [23:08] And, uh, so yeah, growing up, I would play pretend on the horse farm with my brother, but my brother and I, my brother David and I were both, uh, [23:19] petrified of the horses because they're so scary. I'm afraid of horses. They scare me. I respect them. They're beautiful, but I don't mess around with horses.

Yeah. And that's really wise. I feel like when you know that, you're really tapping into the empathy of the horse because- Yes. I don't want to startle them. Yes. And I'm a little nervous. I don't want to make them nervous. Yes. And there are some people that are just so, so good with them. And I feel like, I feel to horses, [23:49] People who don't want to have children feel towards children. Yeah, which is like, I think that's great for you. Yes, not my journey. And I want people who want to ride horses to ride horses, not my journey.

Exactly. They're so tall. Their eyes are so... Their mouths are enormous. Enormous. Yeah, they're like, yeah, yes. They don't make that sound. I was like, I was shoveling the shit in the stalls with the horses also. So you can imagine not loving... [24:19] And like the like sort of like moving around the horse to like shovel its shit into the thing. I was like it was not. That's funny. Like that's like not going into the family business. Yes. I was blasting Britney Spears and Stephen Sondheim on the like on the tape player in the barn, shoveling the horse shit, being like this.

I don't fit here. [24:49] just be you in like they really did that right you were yes you were exactly that singing and dressing up and getting to do stuff and everybody was like that's yes that's our jonathan we have this vhs of my of me dressed as mary poppins i was three and my mom and my dad like they i had lipstick and a carpet bag and a hat and a dress and we're on my grandfather's mennonite farm wade [25:19] background, you can hear him going, Mary, oh, Mary. Not even really clocking the gay joke that he's making by calling me Mary.

Which then became a very successful Broadway show. Exactly. And that's where Cole got the idea. Oh my God. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And who was saying that? Was your dad saying that? My Mennonite. [25:45] grandfather, preacher, Wade. Oh, Wade. So incredible. So sweet. I think if they had equated putting this young boy in a gown, may open up homosexuality in him. It's like an on-ramp to gayness. They may not have done it. But this was before the internet. And they just beautifully allowed me to fly my... [26:12] Freak flag. Yes. And I hear, did you play Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz?

I did as well. What age did you play Dorothy? At four. [26:23] What did you bring to the role? How did you see her? [26:29] I brought a lot. There's also a video of that. I brought a lot of, I brought a real, like, I was screaming a lot. Oh. Yeah. [26:40] And there's a lot of me going like, ah! Because of the tornado. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You were playing the tornado. Yeah. I was like, I was very tornado forward in my interpretation. Yeah, interesting. [26:53] for the yellow brick. Yes.

I held that like that. I carried through. Yeah. What was your on ramp? Thank you for asking. I was in fourth grade and I was really into, I was in fourth grade, a little older, a little wiser. I knew we were going to be okay. I think, but I was really interested in the, like the follow me aspect. I was very much like, come on over here. [27:15] Very into like leading lady, follow the, like follow the yellow brick road. Like let's go. [27:23] I love the skipping and the running around and just like the journey part.

I was really into that part. And the tornado. [27:31] I just went internal. I just played a really small. You were more like the phoenix rising from the ashes. You were like leading everyone somewhere. It was just in my eyes. The tornado was in my eyes. Yeah, yeah. It was like a quick look. Like, blink and you miss it. I went, what was that? Wait, is she okay? But then immediately you were leading us. Yeah. Oh, so much smarter. Fuck. [27:56] Lions and tigers and bears. Oh, my. [28:01] Thank you.

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[30:23] Okay, so then you're on the farm, you're scared of horses, you're singing, you're gonna go to college, and then you get a part. [30:36] It really is as you described. You're on the farm, you're with the horses, you're singing. What is gonna happen? When I listen to the original cast recording of Company, I still smell horse. [30:51] I still have the sense memory of smelling horse. You're listening to it in the bar. Yeah, it smells like the pile of manure that we would make from the stall. How did you get those records?

How did you find out about, what was the musical that made you fall in love? Was it The Horses' Ear? The Horses' Ear? I can't believe it. I haven't thought about this, Amy, in some way. When you say record, I went to the Lancaster Public Library. Yeah. [31:21] the record LP. I mean, it's not like this was like the 60s. This was like 1992. But I got the LP record of Ethel Merman singing Annie Get Your Gun. [31:37] Wow. And I would play the record of Annie Get Your Gun over and over again.

And we had a record player in my house growing up and like a giant computer. You remember like the early computers and like a hand thing that was like doing the video games. And I would be playing a like very basic video game and blasting Ethel Merman singing. Do you remember what like a young how a young boy discovered Ethel Merman? [32:07] it's amazing who how did you find out about her they took us to see the high school play of Annie get your gun there you go and I was like when it got to intermission yeah [32:21] And they were like, okay, now we're going to go to the bathroom and then we're going to come back.

I was like, there's more after that. We're going to come back and it's going to happen again. There's going to be more story. I was so excited. Did you ever go into New York when you were a kid and see a show? Yeah, I went. That was the Annie Get Your Gun moment happened when I was in like fourth grade. And that's when I went to the library then and got the record and was obsessed. And then my mom started taking me on bus trips to see Broadway shows. [32:51] fifth grade, sixth grade middle school.

Then I started going to- What did you see back then? I saw Beauty and the Beast. I saw Grease. I saw Annie Get Your Gun with Bernadette Peters, which I was losing my mind for. Um, [33:06] In high school, I saw Thoroughly Modern Millie six times. You were obsessed with Sutton Foster. Yeah, obsessed. Obsessed with her, yeah. What was it about her that you loved? [33:18] She would like to you. [33:22] She on stage, well... [33:25] On stage is a couple of things. She would like be right here. There was a level of presence about her that was so magnetic and I couldn't, [33:36] Like, [33:38] stop looking at her when she wasn't speaking in scenes, I would be staring at Sutton because she felt so alive.

And then she had been the understudy in that show out of town and replaced and kind of was like pushed out into the front to take on that role in which was like 28 years old. And there was almost like [33:59] Like when it's really hot, when it's really hot and you're driving and you see those waves of heat coming off the road. You know that when you're like in the car and you're like, whoa, it's so hot that you can see the air is like that was what was coming off of her body.

When I when I in my experience and my memory of watching her and it was like heat was coming off of her. And you were still in high school. You did you know you were going to be an actor? [34:29] Thank you. [34:29] move to New York and be an actor at that point? Yeah. Once I was in high school, there was two community theaters in my hometown, the Fulton Theater and the Everett Performing Arts Center. They're both still there. And at the Fulton Theater, I was meeting actors that they hired from New York to play the leads.

And I was obsessed with all of them. One of them is in Just in Time. A woman named Terry Kelly, who was the lead of the show in 2001 at the Fulton, [34:59] circle moment there. But yeah, I started to dream about moving to New York. That's when I learned that you could go to open calls. And I did that my senior year of high school. I went to an open [35:11] And got it and went on the road and then moved to New York. And you basically told your parents, I'm not going to college.

They really, they said, if you want to go to college, go. [35:21] we will find a way to pay for this for you, but it's so expensive. And like, are you sure you want to major in theater? Yeah. Cause what's that going to get you at the end of four years, all this money. And I was like, I, it's my passion. It's what I want to do. And my dad, I remember like a late night with my dad sitting in his chair and he was like, [35:42] if this is really what you want to do, we'll figure it out.

And I was like, okay, thanks, Dad. But then I went to New York and auditioned for this tour and got it. And I went on the road and I deferred my admission from college and I made $10,000 in the year of working on this non-union tour. Carnegie Mellon at that time was $40,000 a year. That's where I deferred my admission. [36:05] And I was like, I'll never be able to pay. Mm-hmm. [36:09] this off. And my parents were like, right, take your money, go to New York. See if it works out.

If it doesn't work out, come back and go to college for something else. So that was the plan. And then 21 years old, you get nominated for a Tony. 21. I mean, spring awakening. [36:39] musical i saw you in that musical i saw the ridge oh come on so amazing oh my god i mean i'm an original musical that's so successful that at that age i mean i i don't i guess my question to you is like now you've got some time right now and you and you did the documentary you produced the documentary oh you really know your stuff amy i try my best you're such a hard worker but i mean [37:09] back.

Like looking back now at that [37:13] That that boy, like what, what do you take away from that moment now? Like with distance and time, what are you so grateful for about that moment? Oh my God. [37:24] Um... [37:26] It was like getting... [37:29] picked up and put somewhere else. It was like the claw coming and just like, the fate of it was like, [37:40] Thoroughly Modern Millie, which I had seen six times, the director of Spring Awakening, is Michael Mayer, the director of Thoroughly Modern Millie. Wow. Like, I... [37:52] It was a combination of feeling like I got picked up and put somewhere, and I remember auditioning for it.

[37:59] And I remember calling my dad on the phone the night before the callback and saying, [38:08] I can't... [38:09] do this right now, but I know that I could do it if they gave me the chance. Why were you thinking you couldn't do it? Because I knew my talent was not... I didn't really have the proper... [38:25] like, [38:26] gifts like this my singing I didn't have my singing together but I had this like primal thing down in my like gut that was like I have to play this role and they let me do it and it was like so then this thing in me got to like it's like those opportunities like you get that opportunity and especially with theater because it's almost religious because you're repeating [38:56] change you from the inside out.

And I've like made me taught me how to act and taught me how to sing. And I was in the closet during that whole show. [39:13] And I had my roommate, Cody, that was my boyfriend. And when I left that show, I... [39:21] came out of the closet a month later because this, this like rebel that was this character, this person that didn't care, didn't let the world define him. This was what I was playing. Like you said, um, you know, [39:34] I'm a people pleaser. I'm a, I'm like, like a prioritizing niceness, prioritizing, like making sure everybody feels good.

[39:43] Yeah. And [39:45] Coming out felt like that would create a dissonance. And it was really hard for me to do that. Yeah. And playing the role in that show... [39:54] allowed me to grow the muscle to be able to do that. So cool. So cool. And you put that in such a beautiful way. I think people... [40:03] often underestimate that sometimes the struggle to live authentically doesn't have as much to do with how you feel about yourself as it does in the worry of how it will change things. [40:15] the temperature in the room, like how it will change the dynamic in the family, how it will make other people feel.

It's often like told through like an inner struggle when sometimes the struggle is really about how will other people change? Yeah, totally. Like how will they feel? Yes. And how did your family feel? How did they, were they surprised? [40:40] Cut to me screaming as Dorothy. [40:45] He's like, well... [40:46] My men and their grandmother were just, who is that little girl in the, in the, in the Wizard of Oz? They're like, that was Jonathan. It was, were they surprised? I mean, like my dad was surprised. My brother was surprised.

My brother, I told my brother first. And he was like, what? He was surprised, which like, yeah. [41:08] My mom said that she kind of knew. It was complicated and cut to... [41:18] whatever, two or three Christmases later, and they're handing presents to my boyfriend that's home for the holidays. So it like very quickly, it took a minute for them to digest it all. Sure. And then ultimately, it's been great. Yeah. Amazing. So, so much happening in your 20s. Like so much. And then you go on Glee, which is this insanely popular show with your buddy, Leah.

And like, you just, you're just [41:44] Everything is happening really fast. It feels like that when I look at your stuff. Like that your 20s is just like things are really moving and chugging along. And you're just working like crazy and being like a New York kid. Yeah. Yeah. Because you have a quality about you that's very young. [42:03] You've been told that, I'm sure. I feel it. Yeah. Yeah, I feel eternally young in a certain way. I'm very, like, excitable. [42:11] Do you have an age you feel like you are?

Do you know what I mean? Like that you relate to? Right now I feel about 15. Yeah, I feel... You're just picking people up left and right. I'm picking you up. Drinking black coffee. I feel like we're on the high school news. We're on the high school news. Remember? Good morning, everyone. It is December 16th. This is very high school news. [42:41] having a hot flash right now. Yeah, it's giving high school news station. It is very high school. Yeah, we're on the morning announcements. [42:48] We, both of us would have definitely done morning announcements.

For? My dream. Sure. I would have had a big crush on you and people would have been like. Oh my god, I would have been just following your Dorothy lead. And people would have been like, Jonathan does not have a crush on you. Okay? You're not his type. [43:06] I'd be like, I don't know. I think I can get him. I think I can win him over. [43:11] Oh, yeah. It would have been totally us on the news. Then you're on Looking, which is this first show on HBO to feature a gay man as the lead?

Yeah. Is that real? Is that real? Is that right? I don't know. It's not on the internet, but who knows? We don't have time to figure that. But incredible. But that's a big jump to be coming out and a few years later playing a really fully realized, sophisticated, single man looking for love. [43:41] That's a big jump. Yeah. It was like I'm really riding the wave here of life and of progress. And when they initially sent me that audition, I said no. I felt scared to be gay on a TV show, wanting to be out publicly and another thing to be like – [44:05] like eating ass on tv only in film it's like i'm gay and then and then it's like okay gruff like we get it like they're seeing me in different positions and like but i mean you actually bring up a really good point which is it's it's very hard to do intimate scenes no matter what [44:35] awakening, I was like, let's go.

I felt a kind of like, um, safety with women, uh, because they didn't feel like there was as much at stake and we could really like go for it. It felt like it in some ways, like it felt like, [44:58] Back then, like, like... [45:01] what I wished I was like, like wishing I wasn't gay, wishing I was straight. And it was like, this is who I wish I could be. It felt like dreaming it, like, like changing who I was, like a fantasy of what I wished I could be.

But then when they send me these scripts and it's, [45:18] actually how I am, it then does become a little bit scary. But I'd seen Andrew Haig, when he became attached as the director, I'd seen his film Weekend at the IFC on Sixth Avenue. And I was like a wreck, like crying in that movie theater because I'd never seen something that felt so real. And so when he became attached as the director, then I was like, no brainer. Yes, I want to do this. I want to work with this man.

And the way that he tells those stories [45:48] movie and I want to do this with him. But at the audition, I'm [45:51] I was shaking and I felt pain. [45:55] Sort of like Sutton, when I'm talking about the heat coming off of the body, my whole body went hot. And I was like blushing. And it was like Spring Awakening, a... [46:09] Another role that I was like, [46:11] almost like a ring of fire birth into a new version of self, like therapy. Like a somatic exorcism. And you knew it was right because you were feeling it.

Yes. And they asked me to be in the, to be the grand marshal of the gay pride parade. I told my parents when I came out like five years before, I was like, hi, so Cody is not my... [46:34] roommate, Cody's my boyfriend, and I'm gay, but I'm not going to be in a parade. [46:43] That's what I said when I came out. I was so still full of shame. I was like, but listen, I'm not holding the flag. I'm not cutting them eating ass on television. And then ultimately, on grand marshalling, the New York parade with a sash, a rainbow sash, literally

[47:04] And I felt scared. I still felt scared back then. I was like, this feels like right. It feels like the right thing to do. But I'm like... [47:13] ah you were like dorothy screaming as i'm getting pushed what feels like pushed off a cliff this is an amazing theme i'm realizing about you which is really amazing is that you and i i think it may also just come from like familial unconditional love which i'm learning more and more like when artists have it they can take big chances yeah you took you take a lot of chances when you're like holy shit yes you do you do it though yes do it yes i think i'm a little drawn to it yeah i'm [47:43] must be like magnetized to it.

And like you said, unconditional love. I think you're right. There's a little bit of a thing where like you, I'll speak for myself too, coming from that background where like, I, I don't want to bypass the fact that there's a safety element that I had in my, in my youth that allows me to do that now. Talk about it. I like the, I, I, I think that there's [48:06] You cannot discount that feeling that if you had a safe home in your professional life or your creative life, you just feel sometimes like emboldened to take these chances when they're given to you.

Yes. And that's definitely what you did because it is like your career is just like, yeah, let's try this. Let's do this. And then looking happens and then it gets canceled. Bummer, but not really a bummer. [48:32] Because all of a sudden. [48:36] for Hamilton. Guess who's tech avail for Hamilton? [48:42] Jonathan Groff. Another fear factor thing, though, of Brian Darcy James originated that role off-Broadway. Of course, Brian originated. And then his show, Something Rotten, got fast-tracked to Broadway, unexpected, while they were in rehearsal for the public theater. And I get a text from Lynn, who I had become friends with through the years, being like, hey, Brian has to bail right after opening.

Will you come in off-Broadway and do this for two months? [49:06] that [49:07] Wow. For the last two months of the off-Broadway run. And he was like, it's basically just one song and it's not a lot of moves and you'll be great. And I was like, okay. Wow. And I said yes without hearing it, knowing anything about it. They sent me the song. I learned the song from like a piano thing. And then I saw it and went in two days later. I was in LA at the time. Wow. [49:29] And so I didn't know I had to have a British accent.

[49:34] And did you ever? [49:36] No, I'm just kidding. Exactly. I mean, your accent is perfect. No, but yes. Drag me, but you're right. No, I'm not dragging. Not dragging. Drag. It's its own, it's its own, like... [49:48] Your accent is its own. It's delicious. When you say bake, you'll be bake. It's incredible. [50:01] Where did you come up with that accent? When I went on the first day off Broadway, it looked like I had won a contest to be in Hamilton because I had no sense of character. I had no.

They were like, you have to do like a British accent. I was like, but what? Everyone's black. [50:18] accent. You're right. No one's historically accurate except for you. But I'm going to do a British accent. And then I saw it and I was like, oh, I get it. I'm like the one thing. Okay. And the choice of your voice is incredible in it. Thank you. I love your accent. Thank you. So then I like, Pippa was like, there's this woman at Juilliard that can help you. So she's, I was like, what?

You're like, oh no. [50:48] I had no accent. I was just trying to remember the words and the notes and then walk off. It was like they put me in a King thing and I walked out there and I did what I could remember. And then they pulled me off. But the song... [50:59] killed. I mean, one could even say stole the show. But I was like, oh, I don't have to do anything. I came out here, I have no idea what I'm doing. Such a funny song. This writing is so genius.

And the device, sorry to interrupt, the device of [51:17] You... [51:18] Being the lover, the jilted lover saying you'll be back is such a funny device. It's so surprising. It is. It's so funny. It's like the first time people aren't rapping. So all the white people in the audience are like, oh. [51:38] They're like, now this is how I remember. This is how I remember Broadway. [51:44] Right. It's so true. [51:48] Record scratch moment in the show, which... [51:51] You know, look, we could talk forever about Hamilton. It's beyond genius in every way.

But it is so funny because it reminds you for just a second of how things used to be. Vocally, lyrically, stylistically. Yes, on so many levels. Traumaturgically. Yes, it's hitting on so many levels. And that, like... [52:15] lesson of like, oh, I have no idea what I'm doing, but this song is killing was then when I was, when then for the next two months, when I started to learn the, the very specific upper whatever accent. And I was watching all the, I'm also so different than Brian Darcy James. I was watching these clips of Barbra Streisand, uh, um, from her TV special, My Name is Barbara.

And I was watching [52:45] Like, fuck herself with her own voice. Like, like, so enjoy so small, but like enjoying every little I was like, OK. And then I started to build the character. But it was I'd never built a character in front of an audience in a show before. Wow. And so that was also a bit of like getting pushed out there. [53:07] And because the show is so great, I was able to just play catch-up because you can be – [53:13] completely [53:16] unaware of what you're doing but sing that song and it nails it and you're right you were like seducing us you're very seductive and you're very laconic as that character is like you're laconic talk about laconic i believe it means sleepy like like just like not thirsty i have so many questions about