The Giannis Never-Trade and a Mega-Mailbag With Zach Lowe, Plus Wyndham Clark’s Second U.S. Open Title With Joe House

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See com slash rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers, [01:13] terms and conditions. [01:42] Bill Simmons podcast. We are live on Netflix. [01:46] low and [01:48] Something happened and he just disappeared like two minutes before we went live. But that's fine. [01:52] I can carry the very top here because I want to tell you, we have a new rewatchable. We have two. [01:57] Coming this week. [01:58] We have From Hell Month still going. [02:01] Really strong. We have domestic disturbance coming on Monday. [02:04] And then the good son. [02:05] is going to be Thursday.

And then the next Monday, [02:08] We've been doing Pacific Heights. So three more from hell movies. Then we'll get into a more. [02:13] Regular schedule after that. Check out all of our Ringer basketball podcasts, by the way, because we have the draft on Tuesday night. I'm going live. [02:22] on Netflix. Hopefully Zach's [02:24] um laptop will be working it's our computer and camera will be working at some point he will have a show i think on monday we're gonna have uh on my show on tuesday on netflix it's gonna be joe house because his team has the number one pick and that's the rule of house has the number one pick we're good and then uh jay kyle man will be joining us [02:43] as well.

And now Zach Lowe, I think, is this working, Zach? How are we feeling? Are we live? Am I back? We're live. I just did my intro. Let's go. Oh, my God. Okay. My computer just died. It came back to life. I don't know what happened. I don't know what's going to happen, but I just, I popped into Netflix just like that. I'm live. Okay. You did. I thought the bug... [03:02] I thought the Bucks or the Miami Heat or Miami Heat media members might have sabotaged your feed. Oh, boy. Okay.

Here we go. So we couldn't talk about the trade. We have... [03:09] The honest, [03:10] trade hostage crisis. What, day 305? Day 307? I don't know how long this has been going. We were kind of hoping it would happen this weekend. I think [03:21] I think it's going to happen tomorrow, sadly. Not good for our podcast. Maybe not good for you, whatever week you had planned out. But I think it's going to happen tomorrow. [03:29] And I just am discounting 95% of everything I'm reading. So we're at the very top of this podcast where we talk Giannis quick.

We'll talk our just knowing enough enough about the draft to be dangerous takes. [03:43] And then I have a mega mailbag that I'm going to bring you into. And then at the tail end, Joe House is going to tell us what happened in the S. Open. So the honest trade, are you surprised it has not happened yet? Are you tired of talking about it? Where are you? [03:54] I'm not surprised it hasn't happened yet. I totally understand both why Milwaukee wants to take this as far as possible and why other teams are perhaps a little frustrated with Milwaukee's communication style.

I understand all of it. I understand every party involved. I kind of thought it would be done by now. They clearly want to do it before the draft. Their owner, Jimmy Haslam, came out and said, we'd like to do it before the draft if he's not going to extend. I thought it would happen before now. I still would lean to it happening before the draft like you. [04:24] build like I just... [04:25] It's just got to roll off your back. There's nothing you can do. Am I going to a World Cup game on Tuesday?

Am I tentatively throwing out the first pitch at Citi Field tomorrow, weather permitting? Weather permitting. All those things are happening. There's just nothing I can do. I can't control these variables. I just got to roll with it. Just got to roll with it. Peace. Peace. Serenity now. Serenity now. It's all I can do. [04:46] Is this the highlight of the Mets season, you throwing out the first pitch? I can't think of any other highlights. I mean, the state of the rotation is such that you would not be the first one of my friends to joke that, hey, if I look good, they may have to throw me out there for a few innings.

Just eat some innings for them. [05:02] You could be like the Eddie Harrison Major League [05:05] The crafty over 40, um, junk, junk pitch. Throwing junk. Um, [05:09] So with the honest... [05:12] Honestly, my feeling has not changed for a week. I think they know what Miami's offer is. It can only be so far. [05:18] they're not putting BAM in it. So at that point, it's pretty easy to figure out everything that's in it. And they're just waiting on Boston to see if Boston is going to top the offer. Maybe they're trying to get them to add stuff to the offer that already happened.

I still think [05:33] I would still bet on Boston. [05:35] And as we talked about last week, I'm still conflicted about that. I don't feel great about [05:40] the honest trade. There's been some stuff floating around in the last week that... [05:46] I don't want to discount, but I just don't believe. Like, I think Hero, if it ends up being Miami, I think Hero is appealing to Milwaukee. He's from Wisconsin. [05:55] I think that would be a piece they want. [05:57] Um, I don't, [05:59] Once we start getting into three-teamer, four-teamer stuff, I just become a little more suspicious.

And the other piece is... [06:06] I think Kuzma... [06:08] is the Giannis tax for this trade for whoever gets him. [06:12] And I haven't seen that really anywhere in a real way. But for Miami, it would have to be Wiggins being in the trade and then Kuzma going back to Miami. He's an expiring deal. I think they just want to... [06:24] move off him. And then for the Celtics, I think that might be a piece of this. If it is going to be Giannis and Jalen as the principals, the Celtics have this trade exception, and then,

[06:34] And I think the honest tax would be, well, you have to also take Kuzma. So I wonder if that's a piece of this. Have you heard anything about that? It's a great call. I have not dug so deep as to get into the Kuzma sediment layer of this, but I'm not [06:48] It makes a lot of sense, particularly for Miami, because I think they would like – [06:54] to end up with Wiggins and Powell, who's an unrestricted free agent, on this theoretical Bam Giannis team, both of them, not just one of them, because they're going to be scrambling to fill out the team.

They have lost Rozier as a salary matching tool, which makes it even more difficult to do that. And it's doable keeping both of them if it's just Giannis, if it's Giannis plus a tiny salary. But if it's Giannis plus another 20 million or whatever Kuzan is making, it becomes very, very hard. [07:24] is like if we do this and all our first round picks are out the door and Yaka Chunas is out the door and all our young guys are out the door, what is it going to amount to? You could argue like, what is the present state of the team?

[07:35] going to amount to, but at least you have some optionality down the line for whoever the next star [07:41] that becomes available is, but like, you know, as Miami has seen a, you never know who it's going to be and B you may not get them. Like you didn't get Damian Lurie. You haven't got Kevin Durant. You may not get Giannis now. [07:51] Right. And then on top of it, you're getting a guy that hasn't, [07:54] made even the conference finals in five years. [07:57] who has had trouble staying healthy, who's 31, 32 years old, and you're banking that he's going to completely change your playoff destiny.

So the more you put in the trade, the less likely that goes. But if Wiggins and Kuzma have to be the extra piece for a Miami trade, [08:11] And now you don't have Hero, Ware, Hawkes, and Wiggins. You're just ruling all of those guys out. [08:18] And you're basically just, you have to bring back Norm Powell, you have Giannis, you have Bam. And then you're just kind of doing the Miami zombie thing, trying to revive careers all over the place. You're probably still in a better spot than you were at 43 and 39, losing a play-in game.

[08:33] But I also don't think... [08:35] you're a title contender. So we'll see. Boston's a little different because I think [08:39] they could talk themselves into... [08:42] This Tatum-Jalen thing might have reached the end. [08:46] Jalen got a taste of being the guy. [08:48] And now we're resetting the team. We're going to be more inside outside. And hopefully we can ride Giannis for three years here. [08:55] Um, [08:56] I understand it. I don't agree with it. So, so... [09:01] How much, if you're, if you are Brad Stevens, [09:05] how much extra are you going to put in?

Because you know they're just, they're asking for Derek White. I'm just making this up to be clear, but just like Derek White plus two first round picks. What about Jalen Brown plus two picks and a swap? Like what's your threshold of pain? I wouldn't do that at all. You're just going like one for one and we're done. That's it. Take it or leave it. Yeah, I'm not taking Giannis, but also getting rid of Derek White. Like part of the reason to get Giannis would be that you still have Derek White and he's like the perfect guy to play with Giannis.

Agreed. [09:35] To me, it's like... [09:36] I would suck it up. [09:38] With Kuzma, [09:40] And if it's like Giannis plus the Kuzma trade exception... [09:43] thing. [09:44] For Jalen. [09:47] I think that's a pretty fair trade. Jalen was one of the eight or nine best players in the league last year, and he's not even 30 years old yet. And then if you're Milwaukee – [09:56] with the way the new lottery rules are, [09:58] you're more competitive than you were, and you still have a chance to flip Jalen. I still...

[10:04] I'm still rooting for this scenario with the Celtics. If they've decided that they actually have to move Jalen, I think there's other teams that I would rather look at than Giannis. [10:13] Like if, if the Clippers number five was on the table, um, if new Orleans with Murphy and Herb Jones and, um, [10:21] patching together a bunch of contracts and try to reset and have more flexibility. I'd [10:26] Would still prefer that over the Giannis... [10:29] It's not a Hail Mary, but it's a little bit of a Hail Mary.

What's coming with the number five pick? Because you're going for the title or trying to win this coming season, right? So are you getting Kawhi in the number five pick? That seems like too much for the Clippers to ever do. What's coming with? I think it's Collins in the five and maybe one more thing. Collins is a free agent, isn't he? But can't you team option him and keep him so you can trade him? I thought you could. I think he's unrestricted. Is he unrestricted? He's unrestricted, yeah. All right. [10:59] But the Clippers have a ton of cap space, though, so I guess...

[11:02] I mean, that'd be part of the deal, right? You could just... [11:05] you could do Jalen and the Five as the principals. Because the Clippers really only have Kawhi and Garland as their big contracts. [11:12] I just think the Clippers, look, [11:14] Again, I'm not. [11:15] I can't sit here and claim that, oh, yeah, I've been on the phone with everybody with the Clippers and they're telling me exactly what their plans are. Anyone sort of posturing like that is lying to you. But I just think. [11:25] This this pick from Indiana is.

[11:27] is such a gift from the basketball and the lottery gods and such a rare opportunity to [11:33] for a franchise that has not had any after the Shea, Kawhi, Paul George trade, [11:38] to not quite reset, but to at least get a blue chip young guy in the door. At least I have a shot at like, this guy could be on our team for 12 years and be really good. I just don't, [11:48] see them passing it up for like, hey, if we get... [11:51] Jalen Brown, Jalen plus Kawhi plus Garland, like we might be able to throw a couple punches at the Spurs and the Thunder and everyone else.

I just don't see them doing that. That's just my gut, though. That's not reporting. That's just my gut. [12:02] I think you might be right. I was thinking of the Bogdanovich contract, not Collins, because Collins has the team. Bogdanovich is a team option for like 16. [12:10] Um, [12:11] But the Clippers are still way under the cap and could do stuff. But New Orleans would be the other one. [12:15] I don't know what to make of Atlanta anymore. I thought it was interesting today. They extended McCollum for one year for 21, which I thought was really smart.

[12:23] They have the eighth pick. [12:24] The weirdest part of this draft is the fifth and sixth draft. [12:27] picks are both point guard picks and yet the teams that have those picks have point guards, which is one of the many things that make this complicated. If I had to bet, [12:35] I still think Boozer goes to Utah, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. But I still feel like I'm leaning Boozer versus... [12:43] rolling the dice with Peterson. Peterson goes three, Wilson goes four. [12:48] I think the Quippers, if they stay at five, have to take – [12:50] Wadler.

[12:52] I think Mikael Brown goes six. Acuff seven to Sacramento. And then Atlanta is the first one that I'm really on the edge of my seat for. I don't know what to make of them. [13:04] And it would seem like Fleming's makes a lot of sense. They could go nuts and take a center. [13:09] If I were them, I would take Brandon Burris. I just think he's the best player that's available at number eight. But do you feel like Atlanta is the pivot team? [13:18] Why would the Clippers not take Burry's?

Is that too much of a reach at five? [13:24] Ah. [13:26] If I were them, I would take Burry's at five. But I don't feel like... [13:31] I feel like in the rankings... [13:33] he's probably a couple spots behind those other guys. I think he's pretty consensus eight, nine. Now they might not care and have their own rankings, but, [13:41] But I think for him, he's a much better bet. I love Burris. I feel the same way about him that I did about Castle two years ago. I think he's a guaranteed really good pro.

The Hawks have eight and 23. And a ball handler makes a lot of sense for them because you saw, like, once Trey went out, they kind of cobbled together. [13:58] functional offense of screens and cuts in motion. Then as soon as they got McCollum, it was like, Oh, [14:04] a real high level skilled ball handler, [14:07] changes the dynamics of this team completely. They're really hard to guard. It's really hard to hide any bad defenders against them. They need a ball handler like Jalen Johnson, not quite a number one ball handler.

Nikhil Alexander-Walker, same deal. So it'd make a lot of sense for them to take a swing, [14:22] at one of those guys with that pick. It's also like an interesting first trade ship to like, are they going to cobble things together and try to get Trey Murphy the third or somebody like that? I don't know, but I agree they're in a very interesting spot. I have a follow-up. Well, by the way, on the Hawks, at 23 – [14:38] You have all these... [14:39] I think guards that have a chance to be really good.

I just feel like one of them is going to fall. [14:44] And you might be able to get a Corey, the, the, [14:47] Point guard, he's like 6'1". He's a little Kemba Walker-y. Christian Anderson could be around there. [14:52] You just might be able to get one of those guys at 23. [14:56] and you get Burris at eight. There's like one version of him in the draft, like just an old school two-way, two guard, and then hope you get lucky with a point guard later. I have a Celtics question for you.

[15:07] Yeah. You mentioned, has the Tatum-Brown thing run its course? [15:11] The other side of that coin is [15:15] The Celtics have been extremely quiet and extremely careful about this whole Giannis thing. It's all been sources say... [15:22] The Celtics are interested in Giannis. Sources say there have been talks, whatever. [15:27] The leak that says specifically... [15:30] Jalen Brown has been offered for Giannis has not really come out yet. It's just everyone making the very logical, no other way to do it. [15:38] deduction and then there was a brief like well could they do it without including jailer brown which i didn't buy it for a second i don't think there's any way to do it but my point is the celtics have been i think very careful because they know that [15:49] Having done this dance a little bit with Durant and Brooklyn, I'm

[15:52] that there's collateral damage to a guy who thinks – [15:57] he's been offered. [15:58] they can probably plausibly go to him now and be like, Hey man, like it was never out there that we explicitly offered you like, just ignore all that stuff. Do you think that, [16:07] That is too far gone. Like that collateral. Are you worried about that kind of collateral damage? If this doesn't happen. [16:14] And how does he how does Jalen Brown feel about it? Is there still a path forward? [16:19] I mean, I said a week and a half ago, I know they made an offer.

[16:22] And they're, they're definitely involved in this and they're definitely the other team. Like there's no question. The bigger question to me is how much does Jalen Brown even care? Like, [16:33] My fear with all of this, and maybe this is part of the reason they're thinking about [16:38] not a blowing it up, but changing whatever they're doing is that, [16:41] he got a legitimate taste at being the guy last year and having his own team. And that's a real thing. And that's something that has submarined a lot of NBA teams over the course of history.

And as is something that's submarined other facets of life. Like I joke, Lee was talking about the wire when, [16:57] Avon went to jail and Stringer Bell took over the business and [17:01] was kind of the guy running the thing. And then Avon came back and they, and that's the TV fictionalized version of it. [17:06] But when you have a taste and it's your team and you're the guy, you're the guy. [17:10] It's pretty tough to just be like, okay, [17:13] Here you go. I kept it warm for you. [17:15] And I think what's different than a couple of years ago is that, you know, if Jalen had his own team, I don't think he's shedding tears over that.

[17:25] I think he's since the season ended, [17:29] Uh. [17:32] He's just done a lot of small things. [17:35] that make you go... [17:37] Huh. [17:39] That was like two 90s song lyrics in a row. All the small things. I guess that's post-90s and things that make you go, hmm, all just sandwiched together. Nicely done. There was some. The Twitch? You're not enjoying the Twitch stream? Yeah. [17:53] I don't think the Twitch, the, the, this was the best season of my career. Um, [17:58] I don't like Tatum hasn't come on the Twitch.

It's like all these little tiny things where, [18:03] I still don't have a lot of hardcore evidence that these guys are fired up to play basketball with each other for the next 10 years. [18:09] I would rather it worked out and they stayed together because I think that's the rarest thing you could have in sports. [18:13] I just am dubious that it will. But you've done, not to derail the mailbag, I'm sorry, but you've done a very smart thing, which is, [18:20] This is, there's so much Giannis mania in, [18:23] that this is being framed as Giannis or bust.

And it doesn't have to be. You can canvas the league for Jalen Brown trades. However, I will say just scanning, and I remember doing this at the time, [18:36] Finding the one, if this is your priority, and I think it should be, [18:39] that keeps you at or near the top of the East with like a reasonable championship equity next season. [18:46] is not like the Clippers one that you proposed does not do that. In my opinion, it's a huge step back for the team. So like, I remember, I remember landing in places like Houston that, that have a lot of just stuff and picks that they can throw in.

And I just, [19:00] I'm struggling to remember sort of who else fits the bill is like, here's the Pelicans are the other one. That's why you have Murphy and Jones and all that. There just aren't that many who can throw back. [19:10] Here, here's some stuff that is different than Jalen Brown, but keeps you at a 58 to 60 win pace, which is what they've been at. [19:17] Well, the only thing with that Clippers one is you're resetting your salary in a pretty crazy way. [19:22] Because with the Clippers able to take on...

[19:25] his money and you basically take that fifth pit back plus you have the trade exception you now you really have flexibility to do a bunch of different like i like what about like i remember thinking about like like and i don't think either dean i don't think cleveland would do this but like a jail and brown from mobley like that would be the kind of thing that i'm talking about where it's like here's another pathway that's not yannis but satisfies that makes us just as good now [19:48] As we are.

And it's just hard to find. Those deals are really hard to make. [19:52] We have a fake trade in the mailbag. Oh, good. That's another one for this. But yeah, I mean, he's making the high 50s. [19:58] So any trade, unless you're getting a draft pick back and a bunch of flexibility, you're looking at another guy who's in that range and a team that's. [20:06] probably staring at it the same way. I guess the bigger thing for me is, [20:10] I think the Knicks have at least a two-year run here where they're going to be really hard to beat because of the team they've assembled, the team they've assembled, [20:18] all the guys at the right points of their career, and there's a real selflessness with this.

The motto for them would be what happened with the 70s through 73 Knicks, where they won two titles, were able to stay together, or even like the 08 to 2012 Celtics. So you kind of know that's the team, that's the bar you have to beat. That's a team that feels like they can beat Boston. Or like the early 2000s Pistons, who only get one, but are in the deep conversation for a half decade, and probably should have gotten another one in there somewhere. [20:48] And they have a really special guy, which that Pistons team did not have.

That Pistons team was a totality. Brunson is... [20:54] Unlike anything that Pistons team has. Dismiss the Knicks repeat chance at your peril. That's all. This is a really, really good team. And if they're healthy, they're deep, they're smart. They know how to play. They're incredible problem solvers. Something magical happened to them in this playoff run that like maybe it completely sustains. Maybe it doesn't. But like, I think they're going to be. [21:13] A force for the, as long as they can keep the score together. [21:16] Yeah, and Brad, his press conference was so telling right after the draft for the Celtics.

[21:21] where he was clearly like really, really publicly unhappy for the first time in a while, not just that they lost to a team. I think he thought they were better than, but that, [21:30] He just didn't know if the style worked anymore. And even if you go back, we have a great mailbag question coming up about that 04 Celtics team. [21:38] that team was still able to play more inside-outside than the team last year. That team last year ultimately was... [21:44] just threes and jump shots. And weirdly, Pritchard [21:48] as the only inside-outside guy.

So I think I'm prepared for anything with them. I don't know what's going to happen. And I still feel like it's going to be on us. [21:59] And then I'm going to have to spend the summer talking to myself. [22:02] into it. Honestly, that is a really appealing part of it for me. I just want to witness you coming to grips with it and then going all the other way of like why this would be the perfect fit. I've loved Giannis all along. Best shape of his career. He's totally rested.

I'll talk myself into it. And it's the same thing. Like I said last month about if Miami gets him, [22:23] Wherever Giannis goes, the team, [22:25] And the content from that team is going to be way more fun, right? Last year, we were in this Giannis situation. [22:31] Really, where it was just like, this is just a wasted asset for us to watch and discuss. And wherever he goes... [22:36] It's going to be a lot more fun. The other thing I want to see with this draft... [22:41] The 11-12 range of Golden State picking right before OKC, [22:47] And I'm sure you've heard this too.

[22:50] These teams now that [22:51] see it through the prism of [22:53] I'm tired of watching OKC just nail the draft. How would they be thinking about these guys and the spot I'm in? And there's a couple of classic OKC guys there. [23:02] in this range right after that top eight where Yaxl, [23:06] Morris Johnson. These are just guys that [23:09] OKC will pick and then you'll get texts from... [23:12] 20 teams being like, fuck, OKC did it again. [23:16] And I wonder if that's going to change how people see the draft with their own spot.

[23:20] It's like even Atlanta at eight or the Warriors at 11. Like, I wonder what OKC would do here. [23:26] I will caution. I heard you say that with Legler a couple of days ago. [23:30] I will say that the Spurs had that kind of reaction maybe 10, 12 years ago where they would take a guy and be like, I remember vividly this happened with Kyle Anderson. Like, oh, of course, the Spurs steal Kyle Anderson. And then it turns out he's just like, whatever. Like, sometimes he's like, oh, of course, they draft this guy.

Turned into like, of course, the Spurs drafted Josh Primo. What a steal he's going to be. Oh, yeah, that was not a steal. OK. So just, you know, you get carried away with it. You get carried away with it. [23:56] All right. Aggregate that. Zach Lowe says Presti overrated. Oh, I know. Zach Lowe eviscerates Sam Presti. All right. [24:04] We're taking... [24:06] We're taking a quick break. Oh, good. [24:08] And then I have an awesome mega mailbag and Zach can recover from eviscerating Sam Preston right after this. [24:14] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

We're in the heart of the World Cup. Look at these little special bottles for Michelob Ultra. Every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26 for you. [24:27] The stakes... [24:28] are just a side. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of... [24:32] The FIFA World Cup 26 is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra. [24:39] from the pitch [24:40] To the poor. [24:41] Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at com. [24:46] slash superior access slash [24:48] FIFA World Cup. [24:50] 2-6. Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access.

No purchase necessary. Open to S. Residence 21 plus begins on December 1st, 2025. Ends [25:01] On July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods, visit com slash com. [25:09] slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. [25:15] All right, mailbag time. All right. [25:17] Some really good ones. [25:18] This is from, I hope I pronounced this correctly, Pacho in Dusseldorf, Germany. [25:24] He threw you in this mailbag question. Okay. [25:26] He said, I want to know how you and Zach think a tournament of the last eight champions would actually shake out.

Here's how the seeding landed based on win percentage. [25:34] Number one is OKC, two Boston, three Lakers, four Toronto, five Knicks, six Nuggets, seven Warriors, and eight Bucs. [25:42] How does it shake out? So first round would be, [25:46] OKC 1 versus Bucks 8, Boston and Golden State, Denver and the Lakers, and Knicks – [25:53] Toronto. [25:55] So let's go through the 1.8. I have OKC over the Bucks in five. 2015, 25, 25. [26:02] OKC against that 21 Bucs team. I think the Thunder handled them. I didn't make specific games picks, but I took the Thunder.

It's a Thunder in six. I'll give Giannis a couple games. Giannis Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton, I'll give him a couple games for sure. [26:16] I think OKC was better. That Bucs team, God bless them. [26:19] Great team. They got a really nice Pat Connaughton playoff run. [26:23] Middleton was great. [26:25] I just think the OKC team was really good. [26:29] Celtics, the 24 version, going against the 22 Warriors. So they almost beat the 22 Warriors, [26:35] And that 2014, I think, was just better. The guys were older, more experienced. I have to sadly take the Celtics.

[26:42] I think it's the Celtics. You throw Drew Holiday and Porzingis into the mix, and it's just the depth and versatility are a different animal than those Warriors could summon, I think. Yeah. But congrats. Listen, there's no losers. These are eight champions. We're not downing any of these. You're setting me up for some inflammatory. All of these are wonderful teams, great teams. Great teams. [27:12] look like in the playoffs more than like regular season win totals and net ratings. Cause if we're going to do it that way, just pick the 25 thunder the whole way.

If you're going to do just do it that way. Um, [27:21] And you're going to run into like debating the difficulty of their [27:25] playoff paths to the title. Like, and that's a common, it turns out that's like a common thing. You don't always get the 2011 Mavericks path where you just have to beat all the best teams. Like a lot of these teams in the moment, people said, well, they didn't have to play this team. They didn't have to play that team. It's actually pretty common. [27:41] Thank you. [27:42] Denver over the Lakers.

So that's 23 Denver against the 20 Lakers. And that 20 Lakers team did have... [27:48] This is where it gets complicated because KCP is in both... [27:53] in both teams. [27:55] I don't know what we do with that. I didn't think about that. Double KCP. Caruso was on that Laker team as well. They had Rondo... [28:04] I, uh... [28:05] I just think Jokic had the Lakers number over the last few years there. And I would take Denver over the Lakers in six or seven would be my pick. I'm going nuggets in seven best player.

[28:19] And the best version of that team, I think, that we've seen is the 23 Nuggets. We're going peak against peak, right? We're going like peak form, 23 Nuggets versus 20 Lakers. That 20 Lakers is a really good team. I have always been, Lakers fans, a proponent of like the bubble title counts just the same as all other titles. It's special in its own way. I'm not saying that. There's nothing about that. They had Danny Green, too. You forgot about Danny Green. They had a lot of good role players on that team.

I just think that Denver team was pretty awesome, and I will take them in a long seven-game slog. [28:49] I feel the same way. Plus, Jokic was on... [28:52] That 23 playoffs that Jokic had, [28:56] is one of the all-time heaters. I think he was 31, 14, and 11 or something. Shot 50% from three. Crazy. All right, last one's a fun one. [29:04] Knicks in Toronto... [29:06] And you have OG and Anobi on both teams, but we have to factor in the appendicitis for OG and Anobi. You do. So he's wiped out on the Toronto side, but playing for the next side.

[29:15] And all due respect for Toronto, which I think was the prototype for the – [29:21] Every single guy on our team can create a shot for themselves. [29:24] which was really one of the first times we had seen that with a, with the title team. Kawhi was great that year, but I think the Knicks beat them. [29:31] How many games? Do you think it's a good series? I had Nixon's six. [29:34] Going into Toronto and winning. Going into the Air Canada Center? Oh, no, that would be they would be winning an MSG.

Regardless, Nixon six. What'd you have? [29:44] I think this is a tougher one than I initially just circled Knicks because, A, my brain is dumb and this just happened. And so I'm overrating them in my head probably a little bit. [29:55] But they are just an awesome team. They solved all comers. They just had the highest point differential in the history of the playoffs. That Raptors, and our last memory of that Raptors team, is tainted by Durant injury, Clay injury, [30:08] Kawhi was kind of running out of gas toward the end of that series, and Van Vliet carried him over the finish line.

Van Vliet, heat check. Young Siakam, young Ananobi who didn't play, but young Siakam was already really good. The Abaka-Gasol combo was really good. It's a really versatile, well-rounded two-way team. I'm going to give them a seven-game loss to the Knicks. I think they take the Knicks to the distance in that series, but I'm taking the Knicks. [30:33] That sounded like somebody that's going to Toronto for a World Cup game in two days. Didn't want to be yelled at. Yeah, well, look... [30:39] Next, next, next. [30:41] Round is much better. [30:43] And much tougher.

I'm not going to like what's going to happen in this room. We have OKC in the Knicks. [30:50] And we have Denver and the Celtics. And I think that's an easier one. I think Denver beats the Celtics. Jokic always beats the Celtics. [30:57] And I don't care how good that 24 Celtics team was. I don't think we're beating the 23 Nuggets, unfortunately. So I have them in six. The other one's a tough one. Who'd you have in the Denver series? That's like the dream series we didn't get, right? Like that whole season when Boston won the title, the dream was Denver – [31:14] Boston.

The two regular season matchups were the most [31:18] amped up matchups of most hyped up matchups of the season. I remember vividly watching one on a plane and praying the wifi would stay strong enough for me to continue watching the game. Cause they didn't have live TV on this particular flight. Um, [31:30] I went back and forth. I'll take Denver in seven, just defaulting again to they have the best player. And that team was just humming like Aaron Gordon. It's like peak Aaron Gordon, peak Bruce Brown, peak, peak everybody involved pretty much.

And so I will take Denver in seven. But I think that Celtics team was. [31:45] was awesome. [31:47] and solve some of its late game problems. [31:50] you know, whatever, yips or whatever they had. [31:53] No question. That would have been an awesome series. OKC over New York is an even tougher call. I went with OKC in seven. [32:02] Um, because all the dudes, they would have had to throw up Brunson. [32:05] I think the big what if of these playoffs that we just had, [32:09] Is it OKC just beats...

[32:12] San Antonio and seven. Do we feel much better about San Antonio than we did after five finals games? And then, [32:18] That OKC team was just, all my Knicks fan friends were like, [32:23] Thank God we didn't have to play OKC. That was a much tougher matchup for us. So I would go OKC in seven. [32:29] in that one, but I really waffled and I couldn't decide. [32:34] My heart wants to take the Knicks. [32:37] Yeah. [32:38] And I think the Knicks, again, their level of problem, they're a very difficult team to play against.

They're an unusual team in a lot of respects with this six-foot-nothing guard who gets whatever he wants and a shooting five and all this wing versatility, wing size around them. I mean, what do you make of Oklahoma City needing seven to beat Denver with Michael Porter Jr. playing with one arm and Aaron Gordon playing with one leg and then seven to beat Indiana? Like, this is what I struggle with because, again, if you're just going to go on paper, [33:08] season plus combined resumes, it's Oklahoma City and it's not close.

[33:12] But the playoff resumes are New York's run better, however you want to quantify it, was certainly more dominant, easier conference, albeit... [33:20] I think I might actually take the Knicks in seven to win this matchup over that specific Oklahoma City Thunder team. I think I might. I think something magical. Just because of the inexperience? It was a very good playoff run by Oklahoma City. Great championship run. [33:36] I just think something crazy happened with the Knicks and they just found Nirvana and found Magic. So I'll just whatever. This is a fun extra.

I'm taking the Knicks in seven. Forget it. Sorry. [33:46] It's a great one. [33:47] I, uh, [33:49] Here's why I took OKC. [33:51] They're amazing. There's no wrong answer. All the guys to throw at Brunson, which San Antonio had, but the difference is in the last five minutes, OKC had Shea, and San Antonio didn't have anybody, and that's why they kept losing those games. I'm having a little fun. [34:04] Finals, Denver I have over OKC. [34:07] So just because they came so close to beating OKC anyway, [34:12] And that 23 Denver team was way better.

[34:14] So that one was an easier one for me. So you have Denver versus New York in your matchup. So who do you have? I went Denver in seven. It's crazy that we both ended with the 23 Nuggets who were pilloried for having two play-in teams in their playoff run. And how soft it was in playing Miami in the finals and all that. I think, you know, power ranking these, I think 23 Denver, 25 OKC, 26 Nick. The last four, to me, are stronger than the early parts. [34:44] Of the run.

The last four are really, really good single season teams. Just awesome teams. Top to bottom. [34:51] Yeah, I think the 23 Nuggets were the best of the eight, so we agree. Okay. It's fake trade season for the next part of the mailbag. First one's from Mac. [34:59] He said, I have to say that you were early and so right about Harper. I'll take all. I noticed Dylan Harper was awesome compliments in the preseason, which was the single easiest thing to know. [35:09] Um, [35:10] I know that Dallas is contractually obligated to have their best player be a white guy.

[35:15] But hypothetically, okay. [35:17] Let's say you are the Spurs GM and Dallas calls offering flag for Harper. Do you say yes? What if the Wizards call and offer you the first pick for Harper? Harper is not getting traded for any pick in this draft. I've already litigated that. Flag for Harper is more interesting. Dallas obviously isn't trading flag. Nobody's trading anybody. [35:33] But I'm wondering what, from what we know now... [35:38] I still think Flag should go first, but I did waffle way more than I would have two months ago.

[35:45] So the question is not who goes first in the draft. It's to the Spurs. Who says no to flag for Harper? Do the Spurs say yes or no? [35:53] I mean, it's actually a better trade for San Antonio because they already have a point card, right? [35:58] I think – I just think they say no anyway because what they just saw with Harper in the playoffs is a known commodity. They've gotten a year to know him within their walls. They know how he fits with Wembenyama. He's a more – [36:10] I it's a it's a more of a sea change to go to flag is the supersized point forward.

You look, you can't lose with either of them. But I think they would probably be like, well, I think it's a double no. I think it's a double no. Yeah. The Mavs aren't in a hurry. The Mavs are saying no as well. For sure. They hang up faster. [36:27] Flag on that Spurs team would have been fascinating, like literally what they needed. [36:32] Not that Harper wasn't what they needed, but flagged next to Wemby would have been really fun. This one's a little more realistic, even though I don't think it happens, from Aaron in Oregon.

[36:39] Who says no? Austin Reeves for Jalen Durant, double sign and trade. [36:44] Lakers get their big for Luca to trick. It's a perfect fit next to Cade, avoids overpaying during. And then he adds also, [36:51] Is everyone sleeping on Dame freaking Lillard joining this Portland team that got a win in San Antonio? [36:57] So he's coming back. He just did the two part question that you do at the press conference. When you really get one question, Adam, two part for you. And they're just completely unrelated. It's like, Hey, what about expansion?

B aspiration that finishing anytime soon. Thanks. I'll take it from here. Um, [37:12] Yeah, we are sleeping on Dame. I'll talk more about Portland later. What was the first part? I already forgot. This is a danger of a two-part question. Duren Reeves double sign and trade. I'm just going beef stew, Paul Reed, all in on those guys and finding a center down the line. Austin Reeves is a better player right now than Jalen Duren. I feel like his... [37:33] They need secondary creation around Cade. They more urgently need what regular season Jalen Durant was in terms of like rim running, all that stuff.

So I'm just, that's too much. These are huge changes. I'm saying no, it's too much for me to contemplate as a Detroit Pistons. [37:49] I'm saying no as well for both teams. [37:52] I do think Detroit needs to get during somewhere between 30 and 34 to 5. [37:58] Seems doable to me. Yeah, I don't think he can't be a Max guy. This next one's fun. [38:03] From Jovo. [38:04] Clips trade fifth pick. [38:06] For Paolo Boncaro, [38:09] Quips already have Garland. Drafting a guard is redundant. Magic could choose Acuff to pair with Suggs and Franz and fix their luxury tax issues.

What are your thoughts? [38:18] It did. [38:19] Make me pause. As earlier in the podcast, I had a Jalen Brown for the five. You said that wasn't on the Boston timetable, which you're right. [38:28] This is a little more on the magic timetable. Pretty good trade. [38:31] That's a good one. Basically, it's a cuff and you save 35 million on the cap. And Ben Caro is still very young. So it's sort of a, although he's making a max salary, my whole thing about the Clippers and being just overjoyed to have a blue chip young guy kind of still applies.

[38:47] Clippers got to think hard about that [38:50] got to think really hard about that. There is something a little depressing about pairing... [38:54] two of like [38:56] two guys who are leaving disappointing postseason teams, or I guess the Cavs are no longer a disappointing postseason team, but Garland and Ben Carroll feels like, Hey, we got, [39:06] We've got the discards from teams that just didn't do quite as much as didn't play quite as well the playoffs as we wanted. [39:13] That's a good one. I don't know if... [39:16] The film I've watched with the draft guys with the Clippers, I'm just saying I'm going to make the pick.

I'm making a pick. There's enough guys that I would love to have on my team that I'm just going to make the pick. Would you trade the fifth pick for Mobley? [39:28] Thank you. [39:32] That one gets really interesting because that solves a lot of luxury tax shit for Cleveland, too. I probably – I think – that's hard. That's hard. As the Clippers? As the Clippers, I probably would. And I just think Mobley's a little bit more – [39:46] Is he better than Vancaro? I think he is a little bit better than Vancaro just because of what he can do defensively is like a total known A-plus commodity.

And he's very young. I wouldn't do that trade if I was the Cavs. You would. [39:58] I would not. You would not. [40:00] it's all guards on the fifth pick and I think I'd rather... Oh, I wasn't even thinking about it from their perspective. I don't think they're going to... For the Clips, I would do it. I don't think they're moving Mobley [40:10] almost for anyone right now. [40:13] So good. [40:14] They shouldn't. [40:15] Adam from Santan Valley, Arizona had a three-teamer where the Warriors got Anthony Davis and Klay Thompson.

[40:22] Washington got Jimmy Butler and the 11th pick from Golden State. [40:26] And Dallas got Pods and Moses Moody. [40:29] in the trade exception from AD. The 11th is way too much for Anthony Davis. I don't think he has that kind of value. [40:36] I do feel like there's a next year's first from Golden State. [40:40] with the Butler expiring for Davis is like in the vicinity of what I think. And I don't think Davis wants to be in Washington and neither do you. [40:48] But I don't think he's worth the 11th pick with the injury history over the years and his age and his salary.

The Warriors, you just got to think a little bit about tomorrow, too. And I think they've been pretty open about that. Yes, we want to win around Steph. Yes, Anthony Davis would help. You got to think a little bit about tomorrow. Why was Dallas in that trade? What was Dallas getting out of it? Just to get Klay Thompson back on Golden State, which I fully support. I think Adam was thick right. All right, this is the best one from Doug from Sleepy Hollow. [41:19] You discussed Chicago Memphis trades to get Peterson to Chicago with house.

[41:23] But the ideal one is staring us in the face. [41:27] Number three for number four, [41:29] And a sick new Hyatt in downtown Memphis. Oh, come on. [41:33] One of the weird subplots of the season, finding out NBA players hate Memphis because of the hotel. Well, the governor of Illinois is rich because his family owns Hyatt. [41:41] And he's currently taking heat from Illinois sports fans because the Bears are threatened to move to Indiana. With one move, everyone wins. [41:48] Bulls get Peterson, Memphis gets Wilson, and a luxury Hyatt in downtown Memphis.

But that's not helping me as the Memphis Grizzlies. It's helping my opponents rest better and be happier when they come to my city. That's a great point. I want them to be unhappy. Yeah, so Memphis says no. They're like, this hotel thing's an advantage for us. The players are pissed. They don't sleep well. They can't get good room service. We like where we are with this. [42:14] Screw you. They hang up. Oh, this was the Jalen Brown trade they got. This is from Sean, [42:21] Jalen Brown and Hauser for Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon.

[42:26] Ooh. [42:28] That got an ooh out of me. [42:30] It's funny because Jalen Brown and Jamal Murray was the big Boston. Who are they going to take at three, 10 years ago in the 2016 draft to Jamal Murray was one of the guys people thought Boston was going to take. [42:41] Jalen Brown and Hauser for Jamal Murray, [42:44] in aaron gordon denver would save a little money on that one too they'd save a lot of money we're going to have to ignore that element of i think it's 81 million dollars coming back to the celtics and jalen is at 57 and hauser is at 67 for 81 68 yeah you could throw in one more to make that work potentially pretty good one

[43:05] Wow, you're really deliberating on this one. I like this one. [43:08] So this will give the Celtics Murray with Derek White, Pritchard off the bench, Aaron Gordon, Tatum. [43:16] you're still hurting at center a little bit. [43:19] But that would be it. I think I'm a no if I'm Boston. [43:24] Just because... [43:26] Oh, I thought it would be Denver that would be the no. I mean, it could be either, honestly. [43:31] Again, I have no prep for this, listeners. This is just being thrown at me blind. [43:35] That's what we love.

The Gordon leg issues are really worrisome to me. And I just like like ninety five million dollars of Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon in 2029 makes me a little nervous if I'm the Celtics. And I care a little bit about like maybe cleaning up my books at some point, which is one of the things you've talked about with with Jalen. [43:55] It's a double no. I think the more realistic one would just be Jalen for Jamal Murray straight up with [44:01] Maybe some massaging from the Denver side. [44:04] Randy in Sacramento, [44:06] would like to propose the following King's special.

[44:08] Oh, boy. Where everyone wins. [44:10] The Spurs received DeMantis Sabonis, [44:13] Hawks receive De'Aaron Fox, and the Kings get Reese to Shea, Kaminga, and the Spurs 20th pick, and maybe their pick swap back. I'll go way more simple than this. What if it's just Fox to the Hawks, Reese to Shea, and Kaminga to Sacramento, and Sabonis and Buddy Heald to San Antonio? [44:31] No picks, nothing else. That actually works on the trade machine. This person needs... [44:35] assistance immediately. This is absolutely an insane trade. [44:40] um insane for who everybody involved so so the spurs are like hey we just made the finals and 160 whatever games bonus like how about we upend everything and try to pair so bonus with victor wambinyama that sounds amazing the rebounds the hawks are like hey we're a pretty good young team yeah we just re-signed cj mcconn for one year you know what sounds great four years and 220 million dollars a year in fox for a guy which is player of the year picked at number one and [45:10] And the Kings are getting what?

They're getting Kaminga and Rishishay. Yeah, they have to opt in at Kaminga and they get Rishishay. That's it. That's all they get. That's actually not even – the Kings are not making out like bandits there for a guy who called this – a Sacramento presumably fan who called it the Kings special. [45:25] That one... [45:27] That one broke me a little bit. It broke my spirit. It broke my morale. I'm a little flustered by that one. Sorry, Randy. [45:33] And then the last one's from Ellis in New York, who says he loves the pot.

I know the Nuggets have no plans to trade Jokic. Okay, let's go. I was waiting for this one. But could the Thunder offer something like Chet, J-Dub, and picks for Jokic and Aaron Gordon? What's the motherlode? [45:48] Um, how far could it go? It did. So I texted you and I was like, got this Yoke straight. They're not trading Yoke. You texted me. I just want to be clear. 55 minutes before the scheduled start time of this podcast. You just texted me. Hey, build some fair, realistic Yoke straight. Okay. They're not going to trade him, but I do think if they ever did, Utah would be the team because it's reasonably close to Denver.

Is that who you had to? I have six teams. I said, that's [46:18] 16. All I needed was one. I can't believe you had six. Ellis gave me Ellis gave you one, which is OKC is an obvious one. You pair Shea and Jokic and you just figure out the rest. [46:27] I wouldn't trade both Chet and J-Dub, but one of them. I wouldn't either, but Chet, 12, 17, Kaysen Wallace, and a couple others. Kaysen's got to be in it. Give me Sorber. They own the rights to multiple Denver first-round picks, so I get my picks back.

There's a lot of stuff there. And Utah, I'm surprised you landed on Utah, too, because there's a Utah trade to be made. The problem is I really want to sign and trade Walker Kessler as part of that trade if I'm the Jazz. [46:57] in the sign-in trade because I don't... He's the one, if I'm getting Jokic... [47:01] So I have to make a three-team trade, and it gets a little complicated. Here's my question. In your Utah trade, was the number two pick involved? Yeah, 100,000%. Okay. [47:12] Yeah. It's a full blow it up for Utah.

That was the only one. Yeah, I had... [47:17] Number two, Markkinen, all the other picks they have where they basically – and I had them keeping Kessler in the trade. [47:24] not just for the reason you mentioned, but I also kind of like the idea of Kessler and Jokic together, but, um, [47:30] But Utah is one of the few teams that could make a fuck you offer. [47:34] I think. And you have to figure you want Jokic to be happy and he kind of likes being on that side in the mountains and [47:40] Um, just, you don't have to say what the other offers were, but what were the other four teams you had?

I want to, I want to say. [47:46] Oh, go. [47:47] All right, so first of all, here are the three different challenges for this, right? [47:50] Whatever team we're seeing now with Giannis, whatever team gets Jokic has to be in position to win immediately. That's number one. Number two, um... [47:59] Their picks in this new lottery world have to have some upside for me as Denver, where it's like, OK, I'm not going to get the 25th pick every year. And number three, Jokic has to be willing to sign an extension.

[48:10] So we talked about Utah. [48:12] we talked about, um, [48:13] Okay, see. [48:15] Houston. [48:16] So Shangun, Jabari Smith, Nets pick, Suns pick, a bunch of swaps, Rockets pick. So I get bites at the apple from different teams who could bottom out in the right year. [48:26] Um, [48:27] Portland, [48:29] Donovan Klingin, Scoot Henderson, Jeremy Grant, all the Bucs picks, all the Blazers picks. Anything of interest there for you? [48:35] Um, [48:36] You get all the Milwaukee stuff. [48:39] I don't know if Portland has the headliner for that trade necessarily.

No, Klingon plus Scoot is not as sexy as it might have been. No, the number two pick to me is a much more important headliner. Charlotte, LaMelo Ball or Brandon Miller, take your pick. [48:54] Number 14, number 18, Salon, a Mavs pick, a Heat pick, all the future Charlotte picks. [49:03] No. [49:04] If I'm trading Joker, I need something... [49:09] incredible back. The Lakers straight up for Luka Doncic. [49:15] *laughs* [49:16] Just because I thought you'd have a little fun with that one. [49:23] Hold on. Let's talk this out. I keep LeBron Reeves.

[49:27] And I get Jokic and we're going all in to win the title with that group. We're not going to have a lot of defense, but we already don't have enough. I have to throw in more Luka, though, more than Luka, right? I got to throw in a pick or two with that. Future something. [49:40] Anything? I don't know. I mean, that's pretty good. [49:43] Um, [49:44] Wyndham Clark just won the US Open. My guy. I've always said Wyndham Clark is my guy. [49:52] David Sherman said, one of my favorite takes you've ever had is the NBA should award larger or smaller trophies to the NBA champion, depending on how important and impressive the runner triumph is.

What size would you give the Knicks after this year? Obviously, no one is getting a bigger trophy than the 2011 Mavs. [50:07] Blah, blah, blah. So I actually, that idea was for the MVP, not the NBA team. [50:12] Not the Lawrence O'Brien trophy. Because I feel like every championship is special. [50:19] I like that you just threw out the trophy's full name, not Delario, Brian. But Lawrence, I call him Lawrence. Ironically, probably the worst commissioner of the league's ever had. [50:30] Just overwhelming about evidence. [50:33] I think this is a better idea for the MVP because we have some incredible – [50:38] you know, like the Shaq 2000 or LeBron, [50:41] 2012 MVPs where it's just like these are the biggest 40 pound MVPs and then there's the other ones where like [50:49] - Karl Malone during the lockout was a great one.

- That's like a three pounder. - I wanna tell people, both privately and publicly,