MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Laura Sweetman

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now, wherever you get your podcasts. [00:31] Hi, Crime Junkies.

I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And welcome back. Last episode, I told you about the murder of Nick Cordova in Gilbert, Arizona. [00:41] In 2020, Nick and his business partner, Dave Sweetman, were the only ones at their office when two masked men came in and shot Nick execution style in the back of the head. [00:52] Dave walked away from the attack and sought out $8 million in life insurance money with [00:58] quote-unquote sign-off from Nick's wife, Alicia. [01:01] Except she alleges that someone forged her signature. [01:05] And it took years of fighting in court for her and their kids to see any share of that life insurance money.

[01:11] Now, Leesha told police that Nick was worried before his death, worried about things like Dave taking money from the business. First, $30,000, then $15,000. [01:21] Nick thought someone was following him, and he half-heartedly joked to her that maybe Dave was going to hire a hitman to collect the insurance money. [01:30] But despite sharing all of this with police, they seemingly never consider Dave a suspect because Dave, [01:36] They had surveillance video of Nick's murder, and it was not Dave who pulled the trigger. [01:42] So there was really never much of an investigation done.

[01:46] into date that we can see from the redacted files. [01:50] There was never any mention of the prior civil suits that he was involved in, where he was made to pay out over $10,000 to various people. [01:57] And there was no mention of Dave's late wife, Laura Sweetman, who died seven years before. [02:04] Before Nick. [02:05] In fact, she didn't come on our radar even until very late into investigating Nick's case. [02:11] Now, the first thing you need to know is that the reason we hadn't heard about Laura's undetermined death [02:18] Why almost no one outside of her small circle has [02:21] is because people seem to be afraid to talk about it.

[02:25] More specifically, [02:27] People seem to be afraid of Dave and what might happen if they spoke up. [02:33] And I think that's why this story has never been covered in any news source that we could find. [02:38] But we know from our reporting that Laura Sweetman's family still wants answers. [02:43] Her friends want answers. [02:46] Her colleagues and former patients even want answers. [02:49] Because for them and us, something isn't adding up. [02:53] And what I can tell you after deep diving into this case is, [02:57] Is that... [02:58] It doesn't all point to Dave.

[03:01] This is the story of Laura Sweetman. [03:04] Thank you. [03:35] So let's start with the elephant in the room, Dave Sweetman. When we first started poking around trying to ask questions about Laura's case, we were surprised by how many people [03:47] were afraid to talk to us. They were afraid of Dave. Because the prevailing theory among those who knew Laura seemed to be that somehow, some way, Dave was involved in her death. They didn't have proof, of course, or they would have gone to police with that. [04:05] But what they had were decades of stories about a man [04:09] who scared them and who was scaring Laura right before her death.

[04:14] So to understand that fear, and before I ever get into how Laura died, I need to take you all the way back to the 1980s, when Dave and Laura first started dating as teenagers at Fallbrook Union High School in California. As a junior in high school, Laura was a future homemaker of America and part of the swim team and the yearbook club. [04:37] And Dave was a varsity football player in The Great Above Her. This is like a real all-American California dream kind of couple. [04:44] Now, after graduating, Laura went on to get her master's in biochemistry.

She went to med school, completed her residency in pediatric neurology. [04:54] and then worked at Phoenix Children's Hospital. And Dave became a small business owner. Now, they got married, and around 2004, they had the first of their three sons, [05:04] So from the outside, everything seemed picture perfect. [05:08] The people who knew Laura knew that that was not the case. [05:12] Laura's close friend, who we're going to call Emily, told us that the Sweetman's marriage was always tumultuous. [05:18] Laura and Emily first met around 2009 when Emily started training Laura at the gym.

[05:24] And in those early days, Emily said that Laura... [05:27] I mean, originally had no confidence. She didn't feel comfortable in her own skin. [05:31] But as Laura and Emily got closer, Laura started talking about why. She'd tell Emily about how her husband would belittle her and make her feel small. [05:42] But the more that they trained together and the stronger that Laura got, the more comfortable she started to feel in her own body. [05:48] And that's when she really began to open up. [05:51] Now, Dave actually trained at that same gym with a different trainer.

And Emily said that her and that trainer would talk about just how different Dave and Laura were. [05:59] how there was just something off about Dave. [06:03] that he gave off, quote, the creepy vibes. [06:05] And Emily told us she couldn't understand why Laura was with Dave when he seemed so manipulative. [06:12] But as they got closer, it became clear that when it came to relationships, Laura just didn't know anything else. [06:19] Now, it's important to note that while Laura was opening up to Emily, most other people were still completely in the dark.

[06:26] I mean, the woman who nannied for Laura and Dave's children, her name's Stacy Miller, she told police that... [06:31] They seemed like a nice, normal, everyday family, and she didn't think anything was off about them ever, really. [06:38] At least until 2006, 2007. In her statement to police, Stacey says that is when Laura and Dave started sleeping on different floors of the house. [06:49] Neither of them ever spoke about a change, and Stacey said, quote, it wasn't any of my business anyway, so I didn't even ask her what went on, end quote.

[06:58] But by April of 2013, there would be no more keeping their relationship issues a secret. [07:04] because according to the police file, [07:06] That is when Laura found out about Dave's. [07:09] big secret. I don't know what drove her into doing a Facebook deep dive. Surely she was having some suspicions of something [07:18] But one click after another after another led her to something crazy. [07:23] Off [07:23] ended her life for good. [07:26] Emily was actually one of the many people Laura opened up to about this. [07:30] And according to her, what Laura discovered...

[07:32] is that Dave had, quote, "a whole other life." [07:36] He had been having an affair with a woman who he had a child with. [07:41] that she never knew about. And I'm not talking about like a newborn baby, like, oh, he couldn't figure out how to tell her about this in the last like, [07:48] 9 months [07:49] This kid was preschool age, a preschool aged son. And did this woman know that Dave was married? I don't know if the woman he was having an affair with knew. I tried to know.

We actually found the woman and her and Dave are no longer together. So I was really hopeful she was going to talk to us. But if you remember from last episode, when I mentioned that there was a woman who Dave is in a child custody battle with to this day in 2026. Yeah. [08:14] That is this woman. Whoa. So she declined to speak with our reporter for either episode because of her ongoing legal situation with Dave. Right. [08:24] But to go back to April 2013, [08:27] It is clear from the police file that is when Laura found out about this other family and she was like, done, done and telling everyone as much.

[08:36] To Stacey, she said she, quote, did not want to stay with someone who would cheat and lie, end quote. [08:44] And according to Emily, finding out about this affair finally gave Laura the push she needed to leave Dave and file for divorce. And she told Emily that she had it all planned out. [08:54] The weekend of April 20th, Dave was going to be taking two of their kids to this wrestling tournament in New Mexico. [09:01] So she was going to use that time to get a new car, to get a rental house, and she planned to move all of her stuff into that.

[09:08] Now, come that weekend, everything was lined up and ready to go. [09:12] The last step would be to loop in the nanny because Laura didn't want Dave to even know where she lived. So she needed Stacy to agree to kind of be the one to usher the kids between the houses for whatever custody arrangement ended up being made. [09:26] Now. [09:27] The dates of the following events are inconsistent in Gilbert police interviews. So I'm going to base the stuff I'm about to tell you, this timeline, on. [09:36] off of the Highland Justice Court's report, which was taken on Sunday, April 21st.

[09:42] So, [09:42] Saturday, April 20th, Laura told Stacey her plan. [09:47] And she asked Stacey to take their third son, the one that had stayed home [09:50] with her to Stacey's own apartment for the night so that she could get all of her things out of the shared house and into her rental. [09:57] And she explicitly told Stacey, quote, not to tell Dave. [10:02] anything. [10:03] And Stacey asked Laura if she was sure about the divorce, and Laura said yes. [10:08] Quote, everything was taken care of. [10:10] So the next day, [10:11] Sunday, April 21st, when Dave was on his way back home with the two kids, [10:16] Laura told Stacy to bring their other son back to Dave's so that he would be there when Dave got back.

[10:23] Now, according to what Dave told police, after he got there, Laura put all three children in the car. [10:29] and told Dave that she was going to take them to the store. [10:31] But she told the kids that they were going to... [10:34] have an adventure and stay at a friend's house. Assuming friend's house is code for her rental. It doesn't say that explicitly in the police report, but I think that's like a fair assumption. [10:43] So here's the thing, though. Laura didn't drive off right away. I don't know why, but she went back into the house.

And what happened in the hour or so that followed is different depending on which Sweetman is narrating. [10:59] The only official record we have is that at 8.44, Laura called the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office from a movie theater about eight minutes away from Dave's house. [11:11] She told them that about an hour and a half prior, she had an altercation with her husband at their house. [11:18] where he held her against her will and threatened to kill her and himself. [11:23] She said that she tried to leave multiple times, but each time Dave grabbed her by the throat and pulled her back into the house.

She said that he tried to choke her three separate times. [11:35] When she finally escaped, she went to that theater where she was joined by her friends. Wait, where were the kids that whole time? Honestly, I don't know. It's unclear if Stacey is still with them or if they're all still in the car or if maybe Stacey took them away. I don't know. But honestly, they're just not even mentioned in the Highland Justice Court report. [11:53] All I know is that Laura is calling from the theater and police go to their house and respond.

[11:59] and take Dave into custody. [12:01] But when they do, he's adamant that he did not hurt Laura. [12:05] He denied holding her hostage, explaining that during what she called an altercation, she was just feet from the door able to leave. And he was sitting, he says, either like on the ground or across the room from her. [12:18] But he did admit that he had her car keys. So she couldn't leave. Yeah, well, at least not in the car, it seems. And he also told deputies that he didn't think he had threatened to hurt Laura, but he might have said something irrational when he was upset.

So it's like a he said she said situation. But not quite, but... [12:37] because there was a witness in the house. [12:41] A one hour and two minute long audio recording that Laura captured of the whole incident. [12:49] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [13:09] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time.

Listen to the deck now. [13:16] wherever you get your podcasts. [13:21] If any copy of this recording exists anymore, we weren't able to find it. According to the incident report, [13:29] Dave can be heard on it, threatening to shoot himself several times. [13:34] But he did not say that he was going to harm Laura. At least audibly. Right. And Laura did ask to leave twice, but both times Dave said no and that he wanted to talk. [13:46] And one of those times, it sounded like there was a physical struggle, and Laura could be heard yelling for help.

Okay, so technically Dave didn't say anything out loud. [13:57] He just... [13:58] did something to stop her. Like, way to play the semantics, dude. Well, according to Dave, what they heard wasn't a struggle. He told deputies that the only time he put his hands on Laura [14:07] was to, quote, [14:08] hug her. [14:09] and hold her close. While she yelled, help me. He says the moment where she said, help me, might have been when... [14:17] They were like deep in an embrace. I guess one of Laura's two cell phones slipped out of her belt.

[14:22] So she yelled, help me. That's what he said. And he says he did. He picked up the phone and set it aside for her. [14:31] Now, [14:32] Deputies wrote that they didn't see any marks or injuries on Laura. [14:38] And Dave later told police, quote, [14:40] I'm fortunate that I didn't do anything. [14:43] Which is like... He's a fortunate? It's a really weird thing to say. Yeah. I know. But I'm not sure if Laura... [14:50] like had a full body examination or if the deputy just sort of like gave her like an up and down with his eyes at the theater, because it doesn't state anywhere that she was like taken to the station or taken to a hospital.

[15:01] And one of Laura's friends told deputies that they saw pink marks on Laura's neck that had just gone away by the time that police were actually talking to her. But we have no way to actually confirm that now. [15:12] The incident report literally says, quote, no photos were taken because none to take. Is this the first kind of call like this? Or was there like. [15:21] I guess I'm asking, like, is there any history of violence with Dave in the past? From what we could find... [15:27] He was arrested for assault in 2008, but the charges were dismissed.

So I don't have any details on what that was or who it even involved. However, in the police file, there is a friend who says that Laura admitted to her that Dave was abusive. [15:42] Quote, [15:43] Mostly verbal and mental abuse and some physical abuse. [15:47] but not as much as the mental. [15:49] And then another friend told police that people around Laura were afraid that Dave [15:55] would harm her. Like, always afraid? Or just after this incident? Both, but at least from what I can read, no one ever witnessed any physical violence.

Injuries or not, though, Dave did get arrested for the assault and unlawful imprisonment, and he allegedly spent a night in jail. But according to the police file, when the charges got forwarded to the Highland Justice Court, [16:21] They were dropped due to insufficient evidence. So literally recording what happened isn't even enough for like... [16:28] The she part of he said, she said. Not enough for charges. Cool. But it was enough to get Laura an order of protection against David and full custody of the children. [16:39] She filed for that the day after this incident, and Laura and Dave did not see each other again [16:45] for over five months.

[16:47] In that time, she was living at her rental house doing her pediatric neurology work, [16:53] taking care of her kids, spending time with friends, [16:56] And she had even started to date. [16:58] But Laura's close friends knew that this was not an easy time for her. [17:03] Emily told police that Laura was always scared of Dave, and then she told us that Laura did not feel safe. [17:09] On top of that, Laura was working [17:12] all the time and constantly stress, particularly [17:16] about money i mean to the point where emily said laura would make comments about what she couldn't afford at the coffee shop that they would go to together and laura apparently stopped going to the gym for personal training because she could no longer afford sessions i know money and like financial support is a big reason that a lot of people feel like they they can't leave a relationship [17:37] I'm kind of surprised [17:38] about that in this situation because I [17:40] Girls legit got like a good paying job as a doctor.

Neurology. Oh, I'm sure she got paid well at Phoenix Children's Hospital. [17:46] I'm just not clear. [17:48] What other factors were at play? I mean, I know Emily asked her about it before, but Laura would just say that she had a lot of student loan debt, which like med school, that's no joke. For sure. But she also mentioned some IRS tax stuff that had to do with Dave. Okay, go on. [18:05] I can't like we weren't able to corroborate anything involving the IRS with official records. So I don't know what Laura might have been referring to.

[18:13] But what is in the police report, though, is this. [18:17] One of Laura's coworkers at Phoenix Children's Hospital told investigators that he and Laura [18:23] discovered Dave had started several businesses [18:26] that she didn't even know about. [18:28] He told police that she only found out when people began calling her, demanding money over bad deals that Dave had allegedly made. [18:37] And one of the men that Laura was seeing around the time of her death told police he knew Dave had, quote, dicked her over on a bunch of money.

[18:44] End quote. [18:45] But he didn't elaborate. [18:47] According to what Emily told police, Dave would say things to Laura about how he was going to end up with the money in the divorce. I mean, is there even money to end up with? Dude, I don't know. Maybe in 2013. Right. I know by 2020, when his business partner, Nick Cordova, was murdered, he was allegedly taking money from the business. Yeah. And we know there were like previous times that. [19:09] He and his businesses were sued for unlisted reasons, and he was ordered to pay thousands of dollars.

Plus, if you look at the businesses that David had at the time, Gilbert Ayer and Monster Impound and Recovery... [19:22] Online, there's still like a number of negative reviews alleging price gouging and illegal towing scams. And did he own those at the time of the divorce? The towing company, yes. But it looks like actually Gilbert Ayer was founded a couple of years later. So listen, what I'm saying is I don't know what Dave's full financial deal was in 2013. [19:40] You definitely can see some like red flags, at least later.

And how did these threats about money even make it to Laura if there's a protective order in place and he doesn't even know where she lives? Like, I assume they they weren't even speaking. Right. She has the kids and everything. But what I know is that the order of protection, it it may it barred Laura and Dave from having in-person contact or like talking on the phone. But like text and email was totally fine. I never like understand these things. [20:06] So it's very possible that they could have been messaging each other about the divorce.

[20:11] But by all accounts, Dave really didn't see Laura or the children even until October of 2013. This is about five months after the domestic violence call. [20:21] That is when a judge finally gave Dave some kind of shared custody where he would get the boys every other week. Even then, Dave and Laura didn't see each other except for once at their son's baseball game because... [20:34] Remember, they had Stacy to usher the boys back and forth. [20:37] So it was important to Laura that Dave not know where she lived.

[20:42] But friends and family wonder if he found out. [20:46] Because they told police that in the months leading up to her death, [20:51] Laura was worried that someone had been following her. [20:55] And they believed that it was either Dave or someone that he hired. So maybe he could figure out where it was she was living. [21:03] To be clear, no one ever reported seeing Dave at Laura's rental house, and Dave insisted to detectives that he had no idea where she lived. [21:13] But, [21:14] There is one detail in the police report that sticks out to me.

On November 14th, this is less than a month before Laura would be found dead in her home. [21:25] One of her neighbors called police to report a suspicious car parked across the street [21:31] From Laura's house. [21:33] It was a white Isuzu rodeo with an Arizona license plate. [21:38] He said, [21:39] There was a white man in the driver's seat doing something on his phone. And when he walked up to ask him what he was doing in the neighborhood, [21:47] The man said that it was none of his business and basically cursed him out.

[21:50] Now, our reporter, Nicole Kagan, was able to get in touch with this neighbor, a man named Harry. [21:56] And he said that this car drove by his house at least three times that day. And he called police because he thought the man driving might have been following him. Now, he couldn't say exactly how long the car was in the neighborhood, but at least a couple of hours. [22:11] And it seemed like the driver was looking for somebody. [22:15] But then at night, Harry noticed that the car parked in Laura's driveway.

And does this happen more than once? Harry said... [22:23] That was the only time that he knew of this car being in the neighborhood. [22:27] But either way, he said that police didn't seem to care about the call and they never followed up with him. [22:32] And he says he remembers calling them back later himself. And they just said, quote, nothing further. [22:38] Now, all Harry remembered was that the guy in the car... [22:41] was a white guy with a medium build, which like, [22:44] Sure. Fitz Dave. Also everyone else.

How many other? Yeah. How many other guys? [22:50] But here's the wild part. For what it's worth, Harry did keep... [22:54] meticulous records. [22:57] So when Nicole was talking to him about this, he's like, oh, you know what? Wait one second. Let me just go check my crime folder to see if I have notes from that time. His what? I don't know if this man listens to the show, but he should. He is a crime junkie because what he did reminds me of when I was young and we would go on road trips with my family.

While other kids, I'm sure, were like on road trips, had coloring books or playing I Spy. I had this like little notebook. I'm sure you know. I would like see this notebook. [23:27] You, like seven-year-old you. I don't like that car. [23:34] might come in handy. [23:35] Because [23:36] When he went to his computer, he's like, yep, I took notes about this. Of course he did. Like, back when it happened, I took notes of the type of car, and by the way... [23:46] The license plate number. [23:48] Which, Brit, we tried?

[23:49] so hard to run this down. I mean, he gave us the number. But there's this thing called the Driver's Privacy Protection Act, which keeps people who aren't detectives or PIs [24:00] from running license plates to identify a driver. Which, like, makes sense. And listen, that's why we're like, we even were like, oh, we'll just, like, hire a PI. But, like, the DPPA makes it... [24:10] Difficult to even do that, too. [24:12] Because you can't just, like, be a media company and use them to, like, go around it. Right, right.

But I know for a fact that Harry gave this license plate number to the police. [24:21] What I don't know is if they ever did anything with it, [24:24] If they track down this driver or who that driver was, because there is no further mention of this tip in Laura's file. [24:31] Now, we did FOIA the incident report for Harry's call, but as of this recording, we still haven't gotten a response from the Gilbert Police Department. [24:38] In fact, when you submit a request through their portal, it says the minimum processing time [24:43] is 18 months.

Is that even legal? Our legal counsel says she doesn't think so. It's a constructive denial, which is basically means that the agency didn't want to explicitly say no. They said anything but no. Yeah. But like so basically in their actions or like their lack of actions like does the speaking for them. So million dollar question. What kind of car did Dave drive? Dude, I have no idea. [25:09] No one we asked remembered from that time. [25:13] And this would have been a super simple question for police to have answered at the time.

But there is nothing in the records. [25:20] about them checking cars after this tip came in. Was this neighbor's tip in Laura's file, or was it just, like, records we pulled from calls placed in the neighborhood? No, it's right there in the file. It's just not. Never followed up on. No. [25:33] But regardless... [25:34] I don't think it's outrageous to speculate that whoever was in that car, for whatever reason, [25:41] It might have had to do with Laura. Well, yeah, especially if they're parked in her driveway. So... [25:48] All of this brings me right up to the few weeks [25:51] before Laura died.

That is when she did something strange, right before Thanksgiving. [25:58] Laura wrote a prescription and asked one of her friends who were going to call Tara for a favor. [26:04] She wanted Tara to fill the prescription in Tara's name, but then give it to Laura. Was this something she had done before? [26:14] Not that we know of. And Tara actually told police that Laura had never asked her to do any favors at all. [26:20] But she said that Laura was [26:22] quote, really behind on paperwork, [26:24] and in desperation. [26:26] when she asked this.

[26:28] I don't know if she ever did this before with anyone else. As far as I can tell, Laura was like a pretty by the books person. And this is definitely not legal. Like it could be considered prescription fraud. And if there is controlled substances involved, then it's a huge deal. Yeah. I mean, it can rise to felony charges. It's like the kind of thing that if found out by the medical board could cost someone's medical license to be suspended or even revoked. [26:51] So... [26:52] I don't know what was driving her to do this now.

And do we know what the prescription was for? No, it's redacted in the file. And Tara declined to speak with us for this episode. [27:02] Emily, who we talked to, said that she believed it was for treating anxiety, which given everything that was going on with Laura at the time, like it didn't surprise Emily that she might have taken something like that. [27:15] So now this brings me to early December. Laura took the kids to San Diego for Thanksgiving. So when they got back on December 1st, the boys went to stay with their dad for a full week, including the weekend.

So they're with him on Monday, December 9th, the morning that Laura Sweetman was found dead. [27:35] That morning, it was pretty obvious that something had happened to Laura. She was a no-call, no-show for work. [27:42] And I've worked with doctors before. For any good doctor, that is unheard of. So pretty early in the morning, one of her co-workers started making calls to check on her. When she didn't answer, they called Stacy and asked her to go check on Laura. [27:56] This was shortly before 9, 10 m. [27:59] When Stacy got to Laura's, [28:00] The metal gate door on the front door, it's like what we would call a screen door, right?

[28:05] That was locked and the front door, both locked as usual. So she had to use her key to get inside. She was greeted by both of Laura's dogs, but she didn't see Laura anywhere or hear anything when she called out her name. [28:18] Before she could even go up the stairs to check Laura's room, she saw the first sign that something was off. [28:25] right at the base of the staircase. The plastic gate that was usually in place to keep Laura's smaller dog from getting by [28:32] was laying on the floor [28:34] in this, like, diagonal position, a few feet away from the staircase.

Stacey actually had to move it out of the way so she could get up the steps. And upstairs... [28:43] Laura wasn't in her unmade bed. [28:46] Stacy found her. [28:48] in the bathtub, [28:49] unresponsive. [28:51] Within five minutes of calling 911, Gilbert firefighters are at the scene. [28:55] And what's documented is that Laura was naked, unresponsive, and foaming at the mouth. And while there was water in the tub, Laura's face wasn't submerged, and there were no other obvious wounds or bleeding that explained what had happened. But there was no hope of saving her, because when the fire captain tried to move Laura's arm, he realized that she was already in full rigor, which sets in after, like, a few hours.

[29:24] six to twelve hours-ish. Which would put her time of death at... [29:29] what? Based on my math, sometime between 9 m. on the 8th and 3 m. on the 9th. But there is no time of death listed [29:39] in the police or the ME reports. So do we know if anyone saw her in that window of time? Well, before I get to that, I want to first point out some things about the scene. To the first detective that arrives on scene... [29:53] Everything seems in order. Like there's no obvious signs of a struggle or forced entry.

[29:59] But according to Stacy, [30:01] There are some things that are out of place. [30:03] That dog gate, for one. [30:05] But also, when she heard the fire truck coming, Stacy went to let the dogs out in the backyard, [30:11] And that's when she got a second sign that something was off. [30:14] The back door, which Laura always locked before going to bed, [30:19] So someone could have easily walked right in. [30:23] or walked right out. It also could mean that she died before going to sleep that night, like before all of her nighttime rituals.

Right, before she got a chance to fully lock up for the night. [30:33] And until police know what caused Laura's death, they do have to treat this whole thing as suspicious, which means... [30:39] talking to those who knew her. [30:42] This is how we have anything in the police file. [30:45] And I want to start with Dave's first interview with police. [30:49] Because it's really strange. [30:53] Starting a new business can be intimidating. I mean, the amount of tasks you have to juggle can get overwhelming quickly. And it's like you have to be an expert in everything all at once.

I mean, you think when I started Crime Junkie, I thought I would be running a merch store one day? I know. But when that day came, before I could even hire help, I had to expertly run a merch store. [31:14] And I did it with Shopify. And you know what? It doesn't matter how big we've grown, how many team members we have who are actual experts now. We still use Shopify. Shopify drives e-commerce whether you're a household name like AudioCheckNow or if you're a creator just getting started like I was eight years ago.

[31:32] The platform acts as your built-in business partner and simplifies all your tasks. Imagine the ease of building your dream store with hundreds of beautiful templates, leverage AI writing tools for product descriptions, and photo enhancements in seconds. You can even create email and social campaigns with ease. So start your business today with the industry's best partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at com slash Crime Junkie. [32:02] That's com slash crimejunkie. [32:09] When a detective calls Dave the day that Laura was found, he tells Dave that Laura is part of an investigation and asks if Dave is able to pick their kids up from school.

A part of an investigation? Like they don't tell him that Laura is dead? [32:25] Dave asks what's wrong, but they say that they can't explain it over the phone. [32:29] So they agree to meet Dave at his house. Here's where it gets interesting. So according to the police file, when Dave greets the detective outside of his house, [32:39] He's already crying. Even though they haven't told him what happened? Exactly. Did Stacy tell him? No, the detective... [32:48] immediately clocks this as odd. So he specifically asks if Dave spoke to anyone...

[32:55] And he says no. So why is he crying? File doesn't say. [33:01] But when the detective finally does tell Dave that Laura died, [33:05] He just like doubles over and starts sobbing uncontrollably, which the detective says continues for the duration of their conversation. [33:14] And they speak about Laura's medical history, the order of protection, the divorce, the domestic violence call. [33:21] and even his affair... [33:23] But Dave maintains that he had no idea where Laura lived or what her life was like after they separated. [33:31] From what I can see, the last time he tells them that he saw Laura was at their son's baseball game back in October.

[33:38] And for all the things they do talk about, nowhere in the summary do I see the detective asking Dave, [33:44] any accusatory questions or even anything about where he was the night before. So we don't know if he had an alibi or not? Not explicitly, no. But what makes the Dave scenario tricky is that [33:57] His three sons were with him all weekend. [34:02] back in 2013, they would have been like [34:05] around six, eight and nine. And do we know if they had a sitter at any point or could he have left after they went to bed?

Like that would make for a pretty good alibi. Yeah, I mean, sure. Like Laura's rental was only 15 minutes away, but there's no record of anyone sitting for them. And we reached out to one of Dave and Laura's now adult sons for comment, but he declined to speak and asked that we not contact anyone else in his family. [34:29] What I do know is that Gilbert PD did look at Dave's phone. [34:33] And that showed that he was at his house from the night of December 8th. [34:38] through the morning.

[34:40] of the 9th, up until he dropped the kids off at school between like 7 and 7.30 that morning. You mean his... [34:46] phone was there. That's his phone. A phone can be left anywhere. Which is why I'm dying to see more records. Like, was there activity on it during that time? Like, was it normal activity? Did they look at location data outside of just that night? Did it ever come close to Laura's rental? [35:02] And I would also really love to ask Dave about all of this, but he didn't respond to any of our calls or our messages.

[35:08] So when all this happened, were people suspicious of Dave like right off the bat? Oh, yeah. Laura's dad, her stepmom, one of her co-workers and Emily all told police that they thought Dave had something to do with Laura's death. [35:22] In fact, according to the police file, the moment Emily heard that Laura died, she immediately texted a friend. [35:28] and said, quote, [35:30] I'm so sick to my stomach. [35:32] I know David had to do something with it. End quote. I mean, if we think about possible motive, with Laura gone, Dave could avoid the divorce proceedings.

He'd automatically get custody of the kids. Like, that would simplify things for him. And that's exactly what did happen. And some people we spoke to have suggested that Dave benefited from Laura's life insurance policy, though we have not been able to corroborate that with any evidence. [35:59] official records. But spoiler alert, Dave has never been publicly named as a suspect or person of interest in this case. [36:08] But also, no one has. [36:10] because this case has never been discussed publicly [36:13] by the police department. [36:15] So in my eyes, Dave does seem suspicious, but it's hard to tell how much of that is coming from the evidence versus the people in the police file who were already convinced it was him.

[36:28] And I'll go on the record as saying he may not be the only person in Laura's life who deserves that level of attention. [36:35] We know Laura had started to date other men when she separated from Dave, right? Well, she was in communication with at least five of them in the weeks leading up to her death. [36:46] And one of those five [36:47] was the last known person to see Laura alive. So the day before Laura died, this would have been Sunday, December 8th, she invited a man that she had been seeing named Will over to her place.

[37:00] Will was a trainer at the gym that she went to. Now, his description of their relationship when he talks to police on December 10th is that they met because of the training. Like he trained both her and Dave at one point. [37:12] And then they started talking more, going to lunch together. [37:16] and that they were, quote, [37:17] Basically friends. [37:18] But Will does admit to being at Laura's on the 8th, quote, for maybe an hour. Okay, like which hour and like to do what? For some reason, I cannot understand.

[37:28] they never actually ask Will for the time that he left, which like is the important part. Yes. [37:34] And we asked Emily if she knew, because she and Will used to be friends too, [37:39] And she said that at the time, he told her that he left between 9 and 11 m. [37:45] But I can't find anything to corroborate that. And it doesn't seem like he explicitly says, [37:51] like what he was even there for. [37:53] Or at least if he does say that, it doesn't make it into the police file.

So when he left, what they were doing, I don't know. [38:00] Now, he says that when he left, at whatever time that was, [38:04] Laura was completely fine, and he says that she didn't mention anything about anyone else coming to the house that night. [38:11] But even he adds that he knew Laura was afraid of Dave. [38:15] and that [38:15] He really hoped she died of natural causes. [38:20] his sake or hers? That is a great follow-up question. [38:25] that was not asked. What the detective does seem to ask Will is if he still has any text messages with Laura from Sunday on his phone.

[38:35] And he says, no. [38:36] that he deleted them because he had a girlfriend and he didn't want her to know about [38:42] Laura. But I thought he and Laura were just friends. Buddies, right? Yeah. I think it's safe to assume that it could have been more than that because when Will consents to give his phone over to police, which he does... [38:54] he prefaces that there are... [38:56] quote, images of Laura Onnit. [38:59] Whatever that means. [39:01] Now, along with his phone, Will gives his DNA, though I don't know what for, because there is no mention in the redacted file of anything that they might [39:10] be wanting to compare this to.

[39:12] I know investigators did do a sexual assault kit on Laura, but none of the files that we received mentioned the results of that. And do they ever just straight up ask Will if he had anything to do with Laura's death? Not that I can see. [39:25] And like Dave, there is no information whatsoever about an alibi. Actually, at least with Dave, we have phone data. We don't even get that for Will in the file. We don't even know for sure if he did leave Laura's place. Well, I mean, we know he wasn't there on Sunday when Stacy got there in the morning.

Right, but that's all we know. That's all I can say for sure. Right. And our reporter reached out to Will for comment. But as of this recording, he hasn't gotten back to us. [39:50] But like I said, Will wasn't the only man that Laura was seeing at the time. In fact, he's not even the only man she saw that weekend. [39:58] Through analyzing Laura's text messages, police were able to determine that on Saturday, December 7, Laura went on a date with a man named Shaheen. And on Sunday, she texted multiple men to try and make plans for that night.

[40:13] She asked a man named Emeka to see a movie. She was going to spend the night with a man named Darren, but he canceled. [40:19] So that night she ended up having dinner with a man named Bruce. And then after that dinner is when Will must have come over. Do these guys know about each other? Well, Will tells the police that he didn't know about anyone else. [40:31] As for the other guys, we tried to reach all of them, because as far as I can tell, police never did— [40:38] But as of this recording, we have not been able to connect with any of them.

I mean, I'm looking at all these guys and I can kind of see a motive here. Like, who's to say one of them didn't, like, find out about everyone else, get jealous? Right. Like, what if the car that neighbor Harry saw was one of them? And, like, I want to ask, like, were any of them white with a medium build? But, like, we said, like, that could match so many people. Yeah, I couldn't find any photos of Darren, Emeka, or Shaheen online. But, I mean, Will and Bruce could fit that description.

[41:08] saw Will leaving the house and confronted her. The problem I have with a theory like that, no matter [41:15] who it would involve. [41:17] is that feels like a crime of passion, right? And those usually have a clear-cut cause of death. [41:24] That is not what we get here. [41:27] Which brings me to the part of this case [41:30] that has been [41:31] keeping me up at night. [41:33] Laura's Autopsy Report. [41:35] We were able to get the medical examiner's report and the toxicology report completely unredacted from the Maricopa County Medical Examiner's Office.

[41:43] And let's just say, [41:44] They raise a lot of questions. [41:48] So our reporter, Nicole, reached out to the medical examiner who performed Lourdes' autopsy. His name is Dr. Mark Shelley. [41:54] And she consulted an outside forensic pathologist who has no ties to this case to go through everything line by line, [42:01] and make sure that we understood exactly what the findings were. The first thing of note, [42:08] is that Laura had no internal injuries. [42:12] But there is evidence of trauma on her body. Dr. Shelley notes surface-level bruises, scrapes, and redness on Laura's head, [42:22] back, breasts, elbow, [42:24] Forearms, wrist, hand, leg, [42:28] and knee.

But according to the pathologist that we consulted, it's hard to know what [42:34] What what? [42:35] like these might be from. Like there's no description of, [42:38] of any particular patterns. And they were all like fresh or recent? So not all of them, because this is the other thing. Some appear to have been at least a week old. [42:48] And Will told police in his interview that Laura bruised easily and would have bruises in random places, specifically like her like her shins and her arms. [42:56] but he didn't know how she got them.

[42:58] He said it never looked like she had been beaten up or anything like that. Okay, did police specifically ask him... [43:04] that because to them it looked like she'd been beaten up it's honestly not totally clear from the file like what prompted that information out of him [43:13] But it also could have come up when they were talking about her workout routines since we know he's a trainer because I actually know that Dave told police Laura, quote, [43:22] Works out like an idiot? [43:24] And the pathologist that we consulted said that all of these injuries could have been sustained during frequent workouts.

[43:31] except for the signs of trauma to her head. [43:35] There is a contusion around the size of like, [43:38] a business card on the top of Laura's head [43:41] and then another near her left temple. [43:45] Neither of these were lethal injuries. [43:48] but could they have knocked Laura unconscious? [43:51] The pathologist says it's not likely, but it is possible. And were those injuries recent? I would assume yes, because they're not noted as healing like some of the other bruises are. But I can't say 100% for sure. [44:05] I mean, without photos or more detailed report, the bruises and the contusions are hard to explain.

[44:12] and [44:13] What's somehow even harder to explain... [44:16] is the foaming at the mouth. And this is where things start to get really weird. [44:21] According to the pathologist, foaming at the mouth is common in drowning because [44:26] When water... [44:27] enters someone's lungs and they try to breathe. The air mixes with the water and this thing called surfactant, which is a natural soapy fluid. [44:37] And like this mixing creates foam. [44:40] But Dr. Shelley wrote, quote, [44:42] There was no definitive evidence of drowning. [44:46] End quote. Which also sounds like there was no definitive evidence that she didn't drown.

The pathologist told us that given the bruising on Laura's arm, it's possible... [44:58] that someone could have held her underwater and drowned her. [45:02] But without seeing the scene photos or photos of her body, he just can't say anything with certainty. [45:08] And Gilbert PD hasn't released any of that. But was there any water in her airways? Dr. Shelley doesn't note any water specifically, but there was, quote, [45:17] moderate amounts of blood and frothy fluid, end quote. And that was like in her lungs. [45:23] And I wish Gilbert PD would release more.

[45:27] or talk to us. Because to me, the number one question I have [45:32] is how was she positioned in the tub? Same, because we know her head wasn't submerged, but did the water drain out a little bit? Right, you would think that if her nose and mouth had been underwater for a longer period of time, I would imagine it wouldn't be foamy. Maybe that would wash away. And actually, how much foam was there even? I don't know. Was she laying down like she was just enjoying a bath? How cold was the water?

[46:02] alone does not answer. [46:04] Now, [46:04] I know from talking to Emily that Laura was a bath girly. Take it from one who knows. Particularly loved taking baths at night. [46:11] But... [46:12] Did she go into that tub on her own? That is my question. [46:17] And I don't know the answer. [46:19] But let's say for a second that this wasn't a drowning. [46:24] There is something else that can cause foaming at the mouth. [46:28] And that is a heart attack. [46:30] But this is truly a whole nother can of worms, because according to the Emmys report, Dr.

Shelley says that he received Laura's medical history... [46:39] which included [46:40] quote, a prior myocardial infarction. [46:44] end quote, which is medical speak for a heart attack. But the pathologist that we spoke to said he wants to know where Dr. Shelley got that medical history from because the autopsy report states that there was [46:57] No scarring. [46:58] No abnormalities of the heart or cardiovascular system [47:02] at all, which he says there typically would be if there was a previous heart attack. But I mean, I know Shelly isn't just like pulling this out of thin air.

He's not. [47:12] That information is backed up in the police report. In interviews... [47:17] Laura's friends and family and doctors states that Laura did have a heart attack in September 2011. This is two years before her death. [47:25] She had it while training for a marathon and she would have been like 39 at the time. [47:31] And to their credit, Gilbert PD went to Laura's cardiologist, who said that when she came in in 2011, she, quote, did not have any significant blockage. [47:40] and there were not any additional interventions needed.

So she had a heart attack, but the [47:47] there was basically no physical evidence of it? I guess so. [47:51] That cardiologist said that they placed Laura on this like short term medication until she took a stress test, which showed that she was fine. [47:58] And actually, in May 2013, almost seven months before her death, [48:02] Laura saw her cardiologist, who said that she was asymptomatic with no complaints. They also did a blood workup at that time, which showed that there was no underlying cause for the initial heart attack. [48:14] So it's like if you take everyone at their word, Laura had a heart attack.

[48:18] But if you... [48:19] look at the evidence her heart her actual heart which you can only do in an autopsy [48:24] She didn't. [48:26] So, okay, I'm like spiraling on this. Was she misdiagnosed? Was it... [48:32] Just like severe chest pain or like a panic attack. Without like actually seeing her medical records myself, I don't know how they came to the conclusion that... [48:41] that it was a heart attack. Like, I'm assuming there had to have been some kind of testing. She's a doctor, too. Yeah. [48:45] maybe it was so mild that it didn't [48:48] leave evidence?

I mean, is that is that possible? Is that even a thing? I mean, we asked Dr. Shelley. He said that every case is different and it would depend on the exact intensity of the heart attack, which I guess makes sense. Yeah. And he says that's information he doesn't remember from her medical records. And like I said, we don't have them. [49:06] But he remembers that there was no evidence of a new heart attack. But he couldn't remember if there was evidence of a previous one. [49:14] There was, I think he would have recorded it.

[49:16] Correct. But maybe it was as undamaging as any heart attack could be, because Emily did tell us that Laura bounced back really quickly after this and just kind of like almost played it off like, oh, no big deal. Just like a heart attack, whatever. [49:31] But if there was anything wrong with her heart, [49:34] at any point. [49:36] There was something Dr. Shelley noted in his report that could have contributed to her heart stopping. [49:42] He says that a prescription stimulant medication was found at the scene. [49:48] - Stimulant like Adderall?

- Could have been anything like that, right? Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse, like, [49:52] All those things, most of them are prescribed for like ADHD, which Emily says that she wasn't sure if Laura had. [49:59] And today, Dr. Shelley didn't remember what the specific medication was. But he's saying it was at the scene. Was it in her system? That's the catch. There is... [50:10] Nothing in her system. Laura's toxicology screen came back completely wrong. [50:15] Clean. [50:16] There's no alcohol, no common drugs of abuse, no prescription stimulants or even anxiety medication. [50:23] couldn't have contributed to her heart-stuffing if she didn't take it.

Like, [50:27] finding out the scene means nothing. Yeah, or at least she didn't take it recently if she had before. Like, not that day, right? Right, like, [50:35] But who was the drug prescribed to? The report doesn't say. [50:39] But I mean, as we know, a basic drug screen only rules out the most common drugs of abuse. Like they're looking for something specific. Yeah. Like, I mean, it's like, right. It's like probably weed, cocaine, like stimulants. It doesn't mean.