The Most American Episode of The Daily, Ever.

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Terms and more at com. [00:41] From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily on Sunday. Today, in celebration of America's 250th birthday, we posed a simple question to some of our favorite colleagues from across the newsroom. People who write about books, movies, TV shows, science, sports, [01:08] We asked them all, what is the most American thing on your beat? Some of their answers will surprise you. I would say that the TV show that most encapsulates America for me is CBS's Survivor. Some might make you angry. There's no better choice than Grand Theft Auto.

Some might make you think a little bit differently. [01:37] our cars. [01:38] But they're all in their own way extremely American. [02:01] Here we go. [02:02] The most American episode of The Daily ever. [02:07] It's Sunday. [02:09] July 5th. [02:10] Happy birthday, America. [02:12] *BANG* [02:19] There's a lot of classical music that is quintessentially American, but if I had to pick one, I think the most American of them would be Aaron Copland's Rodeo. [02:33] I'm Joshua Broney. I write about classical music and opera at The Times. [02:41] So Aaron Copeland was writing in the 1940s at a time when American sound really came into its own.

[02:48] He really cracked the code of what it means to be American in music. He was... [02:53] writing about specifically American themes. He was writing about the American landscape. [03:00] With Rodeo, he's writing a score for a ballet by Agnes DeMille that's about as American as it gets because it's about a tomboy cowgirl in the West being courted by two men. [03:19] ¶¶ [03:19] you [03:20] In Rodeo, [03:22] Aaron Copland kind of creates the vibe of Americana as we know it, but at the same time, he's creating that by drawing on American folk music.

[03:35] So the first movement alone incorporates the tune "If He'd Be a Buckaroo" by his trade. And later there's this really, really lovely late night waltz. [03:53] That's based on the tune called "I Ride an Old Paint." [04:05] I mean, this is a song that Woody Guthrie... [04:07] recorded as well. [04:16] Like, this is what American music is made of. [04:19] It's about a school of composing that was really trying to distinguish the United States from the rest of the world and specifically from the European tradition. [04:35] Okay, here we go.

[04:48] as finale as a finale gets. [04:56] It's also ultimately as American it gets. I mean, [04:59] Anyone who was around in the 90s might remember beef is what's for dinner, which was what this was used for. I mean, it was a barbecue in the backyard. I mean, it's just like it's pure Americana. [05:10] This isn't anything that's particularly highbrow. I mean, it appeals to the masses, it comes from the masses, and that is... [05:29] so quintessentially American in classical music. [05:40]. [05:42] *BANG* [05:48] I am Vanessa Friedman and I am the chief fashion critic for The Times.

[05:52] If you stop anyone on the street and ask them what they think the most American piece of apparel is, they will probably come up with something like a t-shirt and jeans. [05:59] However, if you ask anyone outside of this country how they can identify an American through what they are wearing, the answer they always come up with is leggings, sports bra, workout wear. I'm Eric Piepenberg, and I write about horror movies for The New York Times. [06:16] Only in America could you get a horror film like Jordan Peele's Get Out.

[06:23] Get Out holds up a mirror to the so-called post-racial America, liberal America, and says, "That monster that you thought wasn't there anymore?" [06:31] It's still there, man. It's not going anywhere. [06:34] I'm Kevin Roos, and I'm a tech columnist at The Times. The most American piece of technology is Amazon Prime. [06:42] It is based on a fundamentally American premise that people want things fast, cheap, and all the time. [06:49] I'm Mikado Murphy. I am the assistant film editor and also resident rollercoaster lover here at The Times. [06:58] The most American roller coaster is The Beast.

[07:02] at Kings Island. It's this giant wooden coaster. It feels like it's [07:08] Both too much, but also something that you just can't get enough of. And that feels genuinely American. ¶¶ [07:24] I'm James Ponowazik, and I'm the chief TV critic for The New York Times. [07:31] Survivor is one of my favorite shows. [07:33] Survivor is in my family, what? [07:37] sports is in other families. Welcome to Survivor 50. [07:45] What's the idea of [07:47] What is the setup? [07:48] of Survivor. [07:51] a bunch of people [07:53] come from somewhere else.

[07:55] And they are stuck with each other. And they have to set up a society... [08:00] and figure out how to get along or not get along. Survivor is always evolving, and it's not because of the twists or advantages. Survivor evolves because of you. [08:11] the player. It is not necessarily an idealistic or optimistic picture of America. Survivor is a zero-sum game. [08:21] It is a competition. - Only one of you will win. - Often a cutthroat competition. - You must and will rely on each other in order to survive in a real jungle.

[08:32] And you must and will vote each other out in order to win. [08:36] with people falling apart into [08:39] tribes, [08:40] And factions. I knew it. I knew I couldn't trust you. And sometimes treating each other unpleasantly. You are an unemployed, uneducated, leech on society. And the only thing... It is very competitive. [08:55] Much as America is. [08:57] Got nothing. [08:57] But it's also often very uplifting. Great job. Go, Noel. [09:05] Great job, guys. People are competing with each other, but they also have to form alliances. They have to cooperate.

And within this bigger game of trying to win a million dollars, there are all sorts of opportunities for what can often be really kind of touching stories of personal triumph. [09:27] has earned her way back into this game after 30 years. Somebody doing a hard thing that they didn't think that they were capable of. People coming together to support teammates who are having a hard time. But she was in need and I would want someone to treat my daughter that way if you're him in this game. For sure, for sure, Joe.

[09:47] It shows the challenges and sometimes the potential for triumph. [09:52] that you get [09:54] when you throw together [09:56] a bunch of people who came from somewhere else and... [10:01] try to get them to create a world from scratch. [10:07] It's not always pretty. [10:09] Our history certainly hasn't always been pretty. [10:11] Uh, you know. [10:13] But... [10:13] It's exciting and vital. And I think... [10:20] filled with a kind of [10:22] energy that to me is... [10:25] distinctly [10:27] American, if not sort of [10:30] stereotypically... [10:33] you know, red, white, and blue, propagandistically American.

The tribe has spoken. [10:50] I'm Jancy Dunn. I write the Well newsletter. And honestly, the most American thing on my beat is that I'm constantly writing about two things. How to be as productive as possible and how to get some rest. I'm Elena Bergeron. I'm an assistant editor for pop culture at the Times. [11:16] hockey team's wrecking shop at the Winter Olympics. Taking home gold, making us proud. [11:23] My name is Jennifer Salai, and I'm the nonfiction book critic for The New York Times. The most American nonfiction book is Paved Paradise, How Parking Explains the World by Henry Grabar.

Grabar makes the argument that a lot of questions about how to allocate resources [11:46] of building, affordable housing, all of these really urgent issues are actually tied to the American fixation, not just on cars, but on parking those cars. It really made me understand the country in a new way. I'm Bill Wasik, and I'm the science editor of the New York Times. When my colleagues and I in the science desk were thinking about what the most American [12:16] We settled on Robert Goddard's discovery of liquid rocket fuel. I think we were working backwards from the fact that when it was combined with television, from then on, the televised rocket launch became this extremely American phenomenon.

It's something that brought the whole country together. Big explosions and flames and smoke. What could be more American than those things? [12:45] Good morning. It is Bama Rush day one, so get excited. [12:50] I'm Madison Malone-Kircher, and I am the internet culture reporter on the Styles desk here at The Times. [12:59] The most American thing online that I've reported on is Bama Rush. It's the first day of Bama Rush, so that means I'm on my way to Coleman Coliseum for convocation, so I'm going to give you all a little... [13:15] flock to the University of Alabama and Tuscaloosa and vie for spots in sororities.

[13:20] This shows up in the form of many, many videos. I'm going to show you guys what's in my rush bag. Young women showing what they're buying. My top is Lululemon. My shorts are free, people. [13:29] what they're prepping, what they're going to wear. [13:35] Sorority rush is sort of this perfect encapsulation of the promise of the American meritocracy. [13:44] Anybody should be able to get into a sorority, but [13:47] You have sort of this hidden power structure around social capital, who you know, what you're wearing. And so it's this, to go macro, this friction between the promise of democracy and like the exclusivity of reality.

My necklace is David Yerman. My earrings are Van Cleef. They're like a little chandelier. [14:08] I mean, it's a thing that might be easy to dunk on and make fun of, right? Because it's 18-year-old girls, young women sort of competing for a social club, but [14:17] Modern-day sorority culture is born out of a historical lineage of women who are looking for access into spaces that they didn't have, whether that be social clubs or academia. So there is sort of something positive underneath all of this once you strip away the jewelry and the weird ruffled...

[14:32] skorts. This was at one point quite revolutionary. Also an American concept, really, if you think about it. [14:48] We'll be right back. [14:49] I'm a hot dog. [14:58] Hey, it's Noah Chestnut from The Athletic. If you're into games and sports, pay attention. I'm going to give you four sports terms. You tell me the common thread. Ready? [15:09] Axle. Loop. Lutz. Sow cow. That's Axle. Loop. Lutz. Sow cow. This one's like medium hard. The answer is figure skating jumps. [15:28] Thank you. [15:53] I'm Kim Severson. I'm a national food correspondent for The New York Times.

[15:58] I am going to try to convince you that you can tell the story of, [16:03] of 20th century America through... [16:06] one food item, and that is the M&M. The milk chocolate melts in your mouth, not in your hand. Begins with Forrest Mars, who is the charismatic heir [16:18] to the Mars... [16:20] empire. His dad, Frank, created the Milky Way bar in the 1920s. And as often happens, Forrest Mars became estranged from his father. He goes to Europe. He discovers that some of the British volunteers in the Spanish Civil War are eating these little chocolate balls covered in [16:51] You know, at this point, selling chocolate in the summer in America was a challenge.

So here we have Forrest Mars going, aha, he brings... [17:00] this idea back to the, but he didn't have a lot of chocolate. He didn't really have the raw material. So he partners with Bruce Murray, who's the son of a Hershey executive. So you have the first two Nepo babies, really, in candy in America, coming together, creating the M&M, 1941. When a soldier is out in the field and away from cat cooks, he must carry his own ration. The first contract he had was with the S. government in World War II.

[17:30] are getting these little carton tubes of M&Ms in their containing concentrated soup, heart attack, coffee powder, and candy. [17:40] They all come back, [17:42] They're like, hey, love the M&M's. And so, boom, the M&M becomes very popular national candy. Because M&M's milk chocolate melts in your mouth, not in your head. [17:57] Very, almost crucially, M&M is a great example of American marketing, too, right? So we all will remember, if you're over 40, melt in your mouth, not in your hand. [18:12] They were the first candy... [18:17] on the space shuttle.

They opened that big M&M's store in 2006. And I think you'll remember, crucially, the M&M's spokescandies. Just your friendly neighborhood M&M's. Sit down. Of course, the red M&M and the yellow M&M were sort of the glitzy stars. And then we had Mrs. Brown, who had some heels on. She was kind of a corporate boss lady M&M. My shell is brown. [18:47] So at some point, Mrs. Brown got a makeover, and the stiletto heels were replaced by a more sensible shoe, thus thrusting... [18:56] the M&M into the heart of America's culture wars.

- Which is that the brown M&M has, quote, "transitioned from high stilettos to lower block heels. Also less sexy." That's progress. - And then there was the purple M&M, which was kind of the inclusive M&M, if you will. This, of course, [19:18] thrust the M&M even deeper into the culture wars. - The company added obese and distinctly frumpy lesbian M&Ms to promote quote, "feminism" and "body positivity." [19:28] In other words, explain the mark. And that was that. [19:33] Something I think is really interesting that a lot of people don't know is that the M&M has had an outsized influence on American agriculture.

Now there are two exciting candies to choose from. 1954, they decide to add the peanut M&M. And the new M&M's peanut chocolate candy. You know, the tricky thing about peanuts is they go rancid very quickly. The last thing you want to do is eat a rancid peanut M&M that will put you off M&M's for a long time, which the company realized. [20:03] various kinds of peanuts to grow for their peanut M&M over the years. Georgia is the country's leading producer of peanuts, according to UGA's Center for Agribusiness and Economic Development.

In the 2000s, the company worked with agriculture specialists at the University of Georgia to create the perfect peanut for the peanut M&M. Georgia-09B. The Georgia-09B. It's a high-yielding, [20:33] So you have this great ag story. M&M's again is a little bit in the news with our current Maha health movement. One of the big Make America Healthy Again tenets is to get rid of artificial dyes in food. And M&M's has been trying desperately to do that. They can reliably recreate the red and yellow with natural ingredients like tumerks and beets. Really difficult with the blue and the

[21:03] weird, slightly less vibrant colored M&M's in your packs as they're trying to figure it out. But again, M&M's, The Great American Food Story. [21:13] Really, really. [21:15] The story of American food is really the story of innovation and of money and of our incredible need to eat sweet things. [21:28] When I heard the challenge, what is the most American book? [21:45] First, [21:45] I panicked. I actually came up with 10 plays. That would be August Wilson's Century Cycle. [21:51] But then I chose the book, The Love Songs of B.

Du Bois by Honoré Fanon Jeffers. [21:58] My name is Helen Shaw. I'm the chief theater critic at The Times. I am J. Franklin. I'm an editor at The New York Times Book Review. [22:05]. [22:06] In "The America Cycle," Wilson sets each of the 10 plays in each of the 10 decades of the 20th century among a group of very loosely related families, [22:17] in the Hill District in Pittsburgh. [22:20] The book weaves together two separate storylines. The first is about this girl growing up in the late 20th century. The second storyline is the story of her ancestors as they're living [22:32] on the land that later becomes Georgia, that later becomes the America that we know and love today.

[22:38] you [22:39] Those two storylines converge, and as they converge, you really see how [22:44] history, American history, is alive and present with us. [22:48] It still shapes how we live. It shapes our experiences. The past is not just the past, but it's something that's still present with us. [22:58] And that's why I love it. [23:00] All ten plays together make a really beautiful kind of statement about what August Wilson thought was happening with the African-American experience, what he thought black culture was facing in the 20th century, and what sort of reparations it was capable of making in the spirit.

[23:19] There are all of these big, lofty, important ideas in it, but it is... [23:24] carried in this just delightful, compelling vehicle. [23:30] That's The Love Songs of B. Du Bois by Honoré Fanon Jeffers. That is August Wilson's Century Cycle. [23:54] here at the New York Times. [23:56] To me, the most American movie is Paul Thomas Anderson's 2007 epic There Will Be Blood. [24:05] I drink your milkshake. [24:10] I drink it up. Don't bully me, Daniel. There Will Be Blood is about an oil man named Daniel Plainview, played by Daniel Day-Lewis, who is pushing out across, really, the West in order to seek his fortune.

I have a competition in me. [24:31] I want no one else to succeed. [24:34] *Humming* [24:35] And often in American Westerns, we see that as... [24:39] kind of a positive thing and [24:42] It... [24:43] is inverting that trope. This man, he does pull it off. He becomes fabulously wealthy when we finally see him near the end of the film. He has built an incredible mansion. It has kind of famously a bowling alley in it. But he is... [24:58] absolutely miserable at the end of the film. You have none of me in you.

[25:03] He's a bastard from a basket. [25:07] And we see that all of his wealth did not insulate him from... [25:12] what actually happens often to people when they do become fabulously wealthy. [25:17] I thank God. [25:18] I have none of you in me. [25:22] So we see this kind of taking of this trope that persists throughout history. [25:28] the American imagination and flipping it on its head. [25:33] It's a movie about capitalism, but in a kind of cynical way. It's a movie about the dangers of unfettered liberty... [25:43] It's a movie about the pursuit of power even above wealth.

You know, when you watch this movie, you can see parallels to questions about entrepreneurialism in the 21st century. [25:58] But bear in mind, you can lose it all if you're not careful. Out of all men that beg for a chance to do a lot of trade— So it's not that all of everything about America is bad, but it is about when the ideals that sometimes are associated with the American project are taken to their final kind of end. The kind of idea of unfettered liberty, the unfettered pursuit of power, [26:28] to a person's life.

Mr. Daniel, [26:32] Oh, my God. [26:32] but really to their soul. [26:36] I'm finished. [26:42] Hey, I'm Zachary Small, and I'm a culture reporter at The New York Times, writing about everything from video games to fossils and art. [26:48] My name is Elizabeth Finchantelli, and I write about culture for The New York Times. [26:58] When you think of a video game that is trying to take in all of the weird complexities of American culture, there's no better choice than Grand Theft Auto. [27:07] I think that the most American thing I've ever witnessed is a demolition derby.

[27:16] Grand Theft Auto is a series of games. The new one is coming out at the end of this year. And you're essentially plopped into some crime-ridden city in America. And you are a criminal. And you can do whatever you want. Oh, you're a psycho, you know that? [27:31] A demolition derby is when people get into an arena [27:35] and they ram into each other [27:37] until there's one car left standing as a matter of speaking. [27:43] It's as American as... [27:45] South Park as burlesque theater. It's shock in awe.

It's T. Barnum. [27:51] It's about mayhem, violence. [27:55] chaos. I do find it incredibly thrilling though. I have to say my first one I was screaming. I lost, I really lost my mind. [28:05] There's some impulse to just really push the limits. Test the boundaries of what you can get away with, the mayhem. [28:14] I do feel like that's very American. [28:29] I'm Jason Zinneman. I'm a critic at large, and I write a lot about comedy. [28:34] I think you can make the argument that there's no work of comedy that sums up a particular part of the American character better than Randy Newman's political science.

[28:46] No one likes us, I don't know why We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we tried But all around, even our old friends put us down [29:01] Let's drop the big one, see what happens. The song is a jingoistic American. [29:11] uh, advocating for [29:13] bombing the world into smithereens. [29:16] He's not saying we're going to bomb the world because of some grand plan or because of some ideology or because of some thought out geopolitical reason. He's saying bomb the world because he's annoyed and mopey. And let's just see what happens.

[29:42] This is not the, you know, the anger of the underdog. [29:46] that meant. [29:47] of a powerful who feels like the underdog. [29:51] And that really feels like it captures where we are. We've been as a country for quite a long time. [30:05] It's kind of a downer of an answer, I realize. [30:08] What's more American than that? [30:23] We'll be right back. [30:29] Christine, have you ever bought something and thought, wow, this product actually made my life better? Totally. And usually I find those products through Wirecutter. Yeah, but you work here.

We both do. We're the hosts of The Wirecutter Show from The New York Times. It's our job to research, test and vet products and then recommend our favorites. We'll talk to members of our team of 140 journalists to bring you the very best product recommendations in every category that will actually make your life better. The Wirecutter Show, available wherever you get podcasts. [31:01] My name is Jason Farrago, and I'm one of the critics at large of the New York Times, where I write principally about art, architecture, monuments, and the way it all fits into the wider world.

[31:13] When I'm thinking about whether one work of art could be called the most American, there's really one that immediately comes to mind, and it's the Statue of Liberty. [31:28] Really, even before she was fully erected, she was turned into... [31:33] and I don't use the word lightly, an icon, an actual sort of visual representation of the United States as such. [31:43] This French work of art that is, in my view, the most American work of art. [31:49]. [31:50] Amen. [31:51] You know, I went in for the first time, I think, certainly the first time I can remember in my life, just a couple of weeks ago.

And the thinness of the copper [32:02] It's, uh... [32:03] less than an eighth of an inch thick. [32:06] and the [32:07] armature designed by Gustave Eiffel of a tower you might know in Paris. Holding her all up, [32:14] And that malleability of the copper and the idea that there's this sort of extraordinary symbol that's also an empty shell. It's something that's very, very strong, but it's also vacant. [32:25] You know, you could spend a lot of time with your therapist talking about how these contradictions might embody a certain... [32:34] American ideal and a certain ideal of liberty that I think goes wholly underestimated.

[32:42] *music* [32:51] I'm O. Scott. I'm a critic at large at the New York Times Book Review. [32:57] To me, if I had to pick one poem as the most American poem [33:02] I think it would be Crossing Brooklyn Ferry by Walt Whitman. [33:06] Flood tide below me, I see you face to face. [33:10] Clouds of the west, sun half an hour high, I see you also face to face. [33:15] This is the actor Jeffrey Wright reading Crossing Brooklyn Ferry. [33:20] Crowds of men and women attired in the usual costumes, how curious you are to me.

On the ferry boats, the hundreds and hundreds that cross returning home are more curious to me than you suppose. [33:32] And you, [33:33] that shall cross from shore to shore years hence are more to me and more in my meditations than you might suppose. [33:41] Crossing Brooklyn Ferry, he originally called it Sundown Poem, and it's kind of a [33:49] description of crossing over from Brooklyn to Manhattan, crossing the East River at sunset, [33:57] but what makes it so [34:00] and interesting and so American in a way, is that he uses this experience of [34:07] basically a daily commute, to meditate on a whole state of connection between the past, the present, and the future.

[34:19] What is it then between us? [34:24] What is the count of the scores or hundreds of years between us? [34:30] Whatever it is, it avails not. [34:32] Distance avails not [34:34] And place avails not. I too lived. [34:38] Brooklyn of ample hills was mine. [34:42] I too walked the streets of Manhattan Island and bathed in the waters around it. [34:49] But it's not all, like, sweetness and light. We're not necessarily all, like... [34:54] great, wonderful people. I mean, we're talking about New York City, you know? [34:58] It is not upon you alone the dark patches fall.

[35:02] The dark threw its patches down upon me also. [35:06] The best I had done seemed to me blank and suspicious. [35:11] The great thoughts as I supposed them, were they not in reality meager? [35:16] Nor is it you alone. [35:18] Who know what it is to be evil? [35:20]. [35:21] I am he who knew what it was to be evil. [35:25] So I love that passage because it's saying like, it's not that we're all great people. One thing that we have in common is that, [35:31] We can be terrible.

We're sort of, we're low and mean and jealous and lazy and all of these things. But that is also... [35:40] What makes us this great? [35:42] community, this great democracy. And I think in a way what he's saying is that if you have an idea that... [35:48] That there's going to be democracy, that you're going to have a democratic way of living. It has to include that. It has to acknowledge that, that we're not angels. We're not perfect. And we have to in some way embrace our low as well as our high aspects.

[36:05] Gorgeous clouds of the sunset drenched with your splendor, me or the men and women generations after me. [36:15] Cross from shore to shore countless crowds of passengers. Stand up tall masts of Manhattan. Stand up beautiful hills of Brooklyn. [36:26] It distills for me in a way that [36:30] Not many other literary works... [36:32] do a kind of an idea of America as extending into the future. [36:38] So there's this idea that America is a space. [36:42] and a community and an experience that's defined not by a shared past, but by a shared future.

And that, to me, makes it... [36:52] kind of wonderfully and in a sort of utopian democratic way, quintessentially America. [37:00] Thrive, cities. Bring your freight. [37:05] Bring your show's ample and sufficient rivers, expand, being than which none else is perhaps more spiritual. [37:15] Keep your places. [37:17] Objects than which none else is more lasting. [37:22]. [37:23]. [37:25] You have waited. [37:28] You always wait, you dumb, beautiful ministers. [37:33] We receive you [37:35] with free sense, [37:36] at last, and are insatiate henceforward. [37:43] Not you any more shall be able to foil us or withhold yourselves from us.

[37:49] We use you and do not cast you aside. We plant you permanently within us. [37:55] We fathom you not. [37:58] We love you. There is perfection in you also. [38:04] You furnish your parts toward eternity. [38:08] Great or small [38:11] You furnish your parts toward the soul. [38:20] My name is Gia Corliss, and I'm the dance critic at the New York Times. [38:26] I think dance... [38:27] has more pieces about America than I even realized. [38:32] Two of the most American dance pieces are Stars and Stripes by George Balanchine, 1958, and Appalachian Spring by Martha Graham, 1944.

[38:45] The Appalachian Spring, it's set to music by Aaron Copeland, which is [38:49] I know that [38:50] There's another Aaron Copland score in this. [38:53] Presentation? [38:55] But Aaron Copeland is worth mentioning twice and many more times. [38:58] And it's about a frontier couple, and they're starting their life together. [39:06] Stars and Stripes is set to Sousa music as arranged by Hershey K. [39:21] You know, there are [39:22] baton twirling majorettes and there's a huge flag that rises from the floor at the end of the ballet. It's kind of crazy.

[39:31] The dancing is technical. It's classical ballet. It's like [39:36] making this, putting this serious art form on top of this [39:39]. [39:40] Subject. [39:41] I don't know that he was making fun of America. [39:44] But [39:45] But while also loving it. [39:52] She was showing what America is and showing what an American artist is. [39:56] makes and why they make it and why that is important. [40:01] MUSIC [40:04] I think, you know, they're both dances about optimism and hope and keeping the faith with your eyes wide open. They see things for what they are.

[40:15] And I think that, you know, being funny and serious at the same time is really healthy. [40:23] And very American. [40:31] I'm John Caramonica. I'm a pop music critic at the New York Times and the co-host of PopCast, our pop culture talk show. [40:39] Um... [40:40] When presented within the absurdist project to identify the most American pop song, [40:49] Immediately I thought of all the easy outs there could be. It could be a Jay-Z song, a Paul Simon song, a Halle Berry Manolo song. And I realized [41:05] pretty quickly.

[41:06] That... [41:07] None of those were correct because those reflect ideas about America that I think we often wish about ourselves. [41:16] but it may not reflect the actual mess. [41:19] of the country that we live in. [41:21] So I picked a song called Trump, Trump, baby. [41:26] by a Florida rapper named Forgiato Blow. [41:35] Forgiato Blow refers to himself as the mayor of Magaville. He's a white rapper. He is an avowed Make America Great Again cheerleader. [41:56] a few months before Donald Trump was re-elected to the White House. [42:08] Look, I don't know if this song is good.

[42:13] It's probably not. But this is something that... [42:18] could only exist in the current version of America that we have. This is an, I believe, accurate reflection of a certain segment of how this country views culture and politics. [42:34] That's the version of America that I felt needed to be talked about. [42:43] I often find that of all the cultural forms, all the medium, film, television, things happen the fastest in music. You see little tweaks and changes in the culture first in a pop song. [43:04] There are things happening in these spaces that are discomforting and maybe radical.

They may be hard to listen to, but we can't afford to ignore them. [43:34] listen to what pop music tells us in real time. America isn't only what you look at and what you listen to. It's also what you avert your eyes from. It's also what you avert your ears from. [43:54] you [43:57] This episode was produced by Alex Barron, with help from Tina Antolini. It was edited by Wendy Doerr. [44:27] by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Chris Wood, and was engineered by Sophia Landman. And somehow, shocker, makes no mention of Billy Joel.

[44:43] That's it for the Sunday Daily. I'm Michael Balbaro. See you tomorrow. [44:57] you [45:04] This week on The Wirecutter Show, we're covering deodorant and antiperspirant with expert writer Abby Kozolczyk, who tested dozens of these products in a polyester suit. And I stayed eerily fragrance-free, let's say. I just couldn't believe it, and it became almost a sport. Like, what more can I do to test this poor deodorant? [45:26] Find The Wirecutter Show wherever you listen to your podcasts.