Brandi Carlile

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer? [00:09] Oof. Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. [00:29]. [00:34] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Good Hang.

We have the talented, funny, warm, incredible Brandi Carlile joining us today. And boy, I feel like we became really good friends in this interview. And we talked about so many good things. We talked about her music and meeting her heroes. We talked about hair and the changing hairstyles and how that defines you. We talked about her new record, Returning to Myself and how great it is. And we may have even harmonized. [01:03] A little bit. [01:04] So get ready for that. But before we start this interview, we always talk to a person who knows our guest and wants to give me a question to ask this guest.

And boy, we have a star in her own right, an incredibly talented singer, songwriter, musician from Texas, Maren Morris. Maren, you know, from all of her hits from The High Women, which she performed with Brandy. And she's just incredible. And we are so thrilled to have Maren with us today. So Maren, hi. Can you hear me? [01:34]. [01:38] This episode of Good Hang is presented by Subaru. Some cars go the extra mile. Long-range Subaru hybrids take that to a whole new level. With up to 597 miles per tank in the Crosstrek Hybrid, a car that I've given my family, and up to 581 miles per tank in the Forrester Hybrid.

I'm going to go to the next episode of Good Hang. [01:57] Another car that I also enjoy. Subaru. Love goes the extra mile. Visit com slash hybrid to learn more. Range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy and a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary. Get up. What do you say? All I ever wanted was a really good hang. [02:21] Hey, Maren. [02:23] Hi. How are you? Where are we talking to you from? I am on tour right now in the UK. So I'm playing a show in Manchester tonight.

So I'm backstage. Oh, gosh, you're in pre-show mode. Yeah, but I got ready a little bit earlier today to look okay for you. And yeah, it's kind of nice weather today, like breezy, good walking weather. But yeah, I'm excited. [02:53] that you're here to talk to us about her because the work that you do, [02:59] You did together... [03:02] with the high women was so... [03:05] special. When did you first meet Brandy? Well, thank you so much. I remember when I met you at that Beatles event, you had mentioned that you loved the High Woman album, which was that record.

[03:19] I think a few months later, I was on The Tonight Show talking to Jimmy and he brought up the picture of us. And I was so embarrassed because I was crying when I met you. I'd already had like three glasses of wine. Oh, my gosh. You were so sweet to me that night. Of course. It's such a pleasure to meet you. I love your music. Thank you. But yeah, the High Women record, that was like pretty early in my relationship with Brandy. I think we just clicked. [03:49] or, [03:49] I was receiving...

[03:52] an award for something, but they were also doing a bunch of duets that night. And so I remember Brandy and I both sang... [04:02] Uh, Carole King, also Aretha Franklin's, you make me feel like a natural woman. And having been a Brandy fan since probably junior high, uh, being able to sing that song with her and just go toe to toe vocally, um, was so fun. I think it was. [04:18] Probably a few months later, Brandy called me. [04:23] And again, it was like the day or the week my second record was coming out.

And I was at 30 Rock. I was at The Tonight Show, like randomly. And just in the dressing room about to go on. She calls and she's like, I'm putting this. [04:36] girl group together, [04:38] And I want to know if you want to be a part of it. It's going to be me, Amanda Shires and Natalie Hemby. And I was like, [04:45] Uh-huh. And she goes, it's kind of like a tribute or extension of the highwaymen. [04:51] like the Willie Nelson, Chris Christopherson, Johnny Cash, uh, [04:56] Waylon Jennings record.

And I was like, Oh my God, I'm in. I didn't really have any more questions. I didn't have any questions. Amazing. And it was just, [05:07] Yeah, like a sort of microcosm event because we did that one album. We did a few shows. We did like Newport Folk Festival. [05:16] Brought out Dolly Parton, which was insane. But a lot of these really major career moments that I treasure, that are my crown jewels, are the High Woman experiences. What was it like singing with Dolly Parton? You need to interview her. I think that would be...

[05:33] Yeah, sure. Dolly, Maren said that we would be great together. She just moved from the long list to the short list. [05:42] Dolly, anytime, anywhere. She's just a legend and a real hero of mine. What was she like to be around? I think very few people, I'll include you in this, exceed your expectations when you [06:00] a surveyed like history watching someone or being inspired by someone from afar. So yeah, just exceeded expectations is really punctual. [06:10] I love that she is. Of course she is. Because I put such a precedence on being on time.

Oh, wow. Of course, Dolly is very punctual. [06:19] Actually, she was early. Of course she was. Can you imagine running late for Dolly Parton? That is a stress dream. Can you imagine just in traffic and you know Dolly's waiting for you? Yeah, just disappointing her. I'd probably quit music. [06:37] Totally. You just call ahead and you say, I'm sorry, I'm not going to make it in time. I quit. [06:49] to the nines, I... [06:52] I mean, I assume she's maybe doing her own glam because this is like sort of a not filmed day in the studio, but she's.

[07:00] Putting us all to shame because she's in full... [07:02] hair and makeup, [07:04] like eight inch heels were both quite short. [07:07] Um, so we bonded over that. How tall are you? [07:11] I'm 5'1". Ooh. How tall are you? I'm a towering 5'2". Ooh. What's it like down there? [07:22] Also... [07:23] This is something that I hope that I take away when I hopefully do this decades and decades on is that she sings every one of her songs in the original key. [07:34] of the year it came out. Dang.

A lot of people have to, as they age, and sometimes women, our voices mature at, like, I think they say like 35 or 36. I think about that with songwriters, that are people starting to be aware in their 30s and 40s that they need to [07:51] singing lower keys. Yeah. I mean, I've found out the hard way. Like, yeah, when you go out. Yeah. And then you have to do it live. And you're like, I made this way too high and fast. Yeah. But yeah, just incredible singer. Brandy, like really made it happen.

I feel like she's, she's reached out to these icons over the years and brought them into a space where we can fall in love with them over and over again. [08:21] really good at exactly that, drawing out the heroes of hers and of ours and kind of bringing them in and making them feel comfortable. Like she's, she feels like she's, you said it yourself, she's like a doer. She makes things happen. She's a producer. She's also a good host. You know, she's just making people feel comfortable, but also, which I really relate to is just quietly making them do things without them knowing that they're being pushed.

Like she's a pusher to get [08:51] when that's happening. That's a rare combination. I think that being able to go witness something... [08:57] really communal and almost like church. [09:00] but for people that want to come together in a way that feels... [09:04] inclusive and safe for all. And, um, [09:08] Yeah, just connect through these platforms. [09:10] magic vibrations. I think, you know, just that's her rare gift. That's so cool. Okay. So do you have a question that you think I should ask Brandy today? I'm just wondering as she watches her girls get older and she's

[09:25] making music and touring and collaborating and achieving these incredible dreams. She has, um, [09:33] Yeah, the integration of family throughout that, I feel like has always been really at the forefront for her and Catherine. And I'm just wondering, like. [09:42] as her girls get older because my son's now five and a half. Um, [09:47] Like, what is it like when they go to shows now? Like, are they... [09:52] excited to be there? Are they proud? Are they over it? It's a great question. And actually, it's a question... [09:59] You know, it speaks to the bigger idea of like being a working mother.

How does your kid want you to, you know, divide your time and how do you divide your time and how do you make your kid feel really seen? And also, how do you pursue your dream and not and be like a good model for what it looks like to be a woman who loves, you know, loves what she's doing? [10:29] they say, how do you do it? And what are you doing? And how did it change? And what did, how did five look different than 10? And yeah, great question. Great question.

Maren. I'm obsessed with you. I really appreciate that you're talking to us on the [10:43] before our show. Thank you for that. No, thank you. It's so good to talk to you. Have a great show. Break a leg. Okay. See you soon. Thank you again. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the meaning of a word all the kids say before using it yourself. Not smart. Not slay worthy. Yeah. Checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds.

[11:13] You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. [11:23] Brandi Carlisle is here, and we're talking already about SNL because you love doing SNL. I love it, yeah. And you love the time pressure. Yes, I think watching all those people thrive under pressure is just, it's a really unique thing. You don't see that anywhere else. I know. [11:43] Mm-hmm. [11:44] Because I've done live things where they get you ready and they put you at the side of the stage and you're like, I know I have two more awards before my award or whatever.

Which is like 40 minutes. 40 minutes. They'll get you out of your seat. You're like, at SNL, you'd be having dinner uptown. Exactly. They don't even come into your dressing room or give you a warning at two minutes. That's like... [12:05] I know. Brandy. Hi. Hi. I love you so much. Oh my God. Same. I love you. I was very, very excited to talk to you today. And you know, there's a million things I want to talk to you about today, but- [12:16] I want to stay in the present for a second because – [12:19] I'm loving your new record.

Thank you. I love all of your music. But this one feels very, very, it feels like not to imprint myself on it, but it really feels like it's speaking to me. [12:32] And, you know, it's returning to myself. Came out in October. As we start today, I want to ask you about the push and pull between being like introvert, extrovert, your push and pull between being a connector and wanting community and like needing time to yourself. [12:49] And I was kind of joking with someone that I was saying, what I love about Brandy's new record is, is it feels like it's like, can I have five minutes to myself, please?

[12:59] That's what it feels like. That's in the subtext. And not very many people have seen that about it, but you have. And, and I, you know, when I, when I've been learning about you, it's like. [13:09] you know, you have... [13:10] Definite. [13:11] benevolent, natural captain energy. And you like to bring people together and you, you know, you live with a lot of people, you have a lot of people around, you live a life that's very big and has a lot of people around. And I love that a lot of the songs on this record are about, can I just like figure out what I, what I actually want?

Like, who am I in real time? And when I'm alone, is the music about that? Is, is a record about [13:35] What is it like to be alone? Well, it's definitely about who am I when I am alone. [13:39] Who are you when you're alone? Yeah, well, I have... [13:42] sort of yet to figure that out. Same. And really? Yeah. Is it because you prefer the company of other people and then don't take the time? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. So I don't know. Yeah. And I've got to an age now where I've learned that that's sort of seen as maybe unevolved in some ways.

And I got kind of self-conscious about it within the last year or two and went, [14:12] When I'm alone. Have you ever thought about doing a silent retreat? I have thought about it. Does it scare you? It just really turns me off. I just find that appalling. I do too. It's like, what? Eight days of no talking? Oh, what a waste of time. I'm doing a podcast and you can tell I love talking. But yeah, it's like, okay. And I'm always fascinated by people who are silent in general. [14:42] Stay still.

I do find you have a stillness. You're not a again, I'm just getting to know you, but but I don't feel like you have a hectic energy. [14:54] No, I don't think I do. And in terms of other than just committing to a lot of things all the time. Yes. And that was my so my wife would tell you that I am I am chaotic in that way. Yeah. But like not to bring up. [15:07] trim carpentry right away. But yesterday I had the day off. Have you heard about, we've been talking about trim carpentry on this episode.

Yes. Kate McKinnon. Yes. Big fan of trim carpentry. Yes. And said she spoke to you about trim carpentry. Yeah. And then I heard that you are also a fan of trim carpentry, but are intimidated by working with wood. Big time because Nick Offerman, friend of the pod, friend of mine, also incredible woodworker. I'm sure he's into trim carpentry. Sure. As you would be. [15:37] That just seems to me like next level. What does trim carpentry have to do with what we're talking about? Well, the reason I was going to, I had the day off yesterday and I just spent six hours caulking window trim, just trim carpentry for just six hours.

All I was doing was caulking, just filling in gaps with like a bronze colored caulk and nail holes and kind of perfecting the appearance of the carpentry. And I was doing it with this guy that I used to play in a band with [16:07] He's like, [16:08] I guess he's one of my best friends. We only see each other once every few years. But when we do, we just get together and don't talk. Wow, that's nice. There's like a bag of Fritos involved. There's like a bad radio station. And there's just some curses, you know, occasionally when a mistake is made.

And I wouldn't have done that day. That's not how I would have spent the day if I had had the option to do it alone. I wanted to spend the day with him not talking. [16:38] with other people. I'd rather be together, but that doesn't mean that I want to like... [16:43] lay myself down across the puddle like a jacket to spend time with you we may not talk you know your music reminds me of this feeling and the record does too which is that feeling when you're in another room and you can hear people talking like there's a party that feeling me too because i like the party i want the party i want people around but i want to not be talking i'm not [17:07] When's your birthday?

September 16th. I wonder if that's characteristic of your sign. I wonder. Why are you? What's your sign? I'm a Gemini. Oh. June 1st. Okay. It's a very outward person. I can't understand Geminis. Really? Really? [17:20] Yeah, that look you just gave me. Every day, it's like, what are we getting? Yeah, I know. What are we getting? What's the real deal, Gemini? Twin city. Yeah, I know. And I don't know. You tell me. Did you feel like when you were a kid, I mean, you have eldest daughter energy. You are, like I said, you're a doer.

You like to get things done. And you kind of quietly motivate people in ways that they don't realize they're being pushed. [17:48] Stop it. Game recognized game. [17:50] recognized game. But okay, you grew up in the middle of nowhere. Yes. [17:55] Was it quiet where you were and were you alone a lot? It was chaotic. Okay. And I still live in the middle of nowhere. [18:02] But it was chaotic, you know? Yeah. [18:04] Moved all the time, lived in tiny places. A lot of times people lived with us. Lots of friends over, lots of jam sessions, just lots of chaos all the time.

Unpredictable environments. And I really thrive in those. And I still have this like, did you have, what was your childhood like? Well, suburban... [18:23] In many ways, but small house and everyone very kind of on top of each other. And we were kind of the house where people would come through. So it's nice that way because people would come over, but busy house. Yeah. And I felt like, you know, I. [18:38] I wanted to do a lot of hiding, like a lot of like going into the woods and going like, you know, getting on my bike and just like, yeah, like balancing quiet time and busy time.

But a lively house full of a lot of love. Yeah. I just realized my house, like when we were just driving, my house felt like Saturday Night Live. No way. People moving giant pieces of furniture. Everything to the last second. Tons of pressure. Anything could change. Nothing is guaranteed. Do we have a lot of ADHD in the house? I mean, probably. Undiagnosed? [19:08] Entirely, I would think. I mean, I would think it's like everyone would be, would fall into that category. Waiting until the last minute. So that explains why I love being there so much.

Because I'm like, why am I just thriving in this environment? You're just crushing right before the deadline. Yeah, just loving it. But that helps with performing, I think. Because you just... [19:27] You know, you can only have like so much time in the day where, I mean, some people... [19:31] spend their whole day getting ready for their performance, but you just have to kind of create [19:36] like a countdown for the performance. You can't stay performance ready all day. No. And I mean, depending on like what your zone is and like what kind of performer you are to the, the, the element of like risk involved gets really, um, can get really heavy.

Like, I know exactly how to sing. [19:57] So it almost doesn't matter how high the stakes are. If I'm going to sing... [20:02] I'm going to be okay. [20:04] But I have this theory that [20:07] that, [20:08] And I mean, I could be wrong, and this is not to downgrade anybody else's prose, but I think that like musicians are obsessed with comedians. Have you not noticed that? Well, here's my theory. Okay, tell me. [20:22] Every comedian wishes they were a musician and every musician thinks they're a comedian. [20:32] Because I can't tell you how many musicians have been like, I'm really funny.

And I'm like, well, I'm glad they think that. But no, we get along. We get along. Yeah. Because I think we really appreciate what the other does. And there's a similarity. [20:52] of SNL is watching musicians. Like I just am in awe of what musicians get to do. But what do you think? Why do you think we kind of love each other? I think that, you know, musicians kind of worship [21:05] comedians because of the risk that they're taking. Like we know what it means to do our thing and then have that die to no reaction.

And then I think comedians just... [21:17] just think they're at the top of the pyramid. I don't wish they were anyone else. Because they're so intelligent. Well, and they also are like the cockiness. To your point, you have to be cocky to get out there and bomb or you're really in trouble. I mean, what do you do? It's like... [21:32] It's like I said, I can sing no matter how high the stakes are. And if I'm going to play 12 songs, it's not the 12 songs I'm afraid of. It's the 15 seconds in between the songs of what I have to say in that moment.

Get out of here! That's what I'm afraid of. Okay, that's why... [21:47] I'm not a musician because I would have no problem with that. But the singing. Yeah. So if we like recreated the Indigo Girls, like if we were a band together, your banter and my singing would be unstoppable. You know, this is early in the interview, but I want to talk to you about your heroes. But can we just talk about the Indigo Girls for a second? All day long. [22:09] Okay. [22:10] First of all, [22:12] The fact that [22:12] One of them was called Amy was already like a dream, Emily and Amy.

[22:18] they you just you've heard them like when you were like a teenager right 14 15 and you say like they really motivated you to pick up a guitar I mean you were singing 100 yeah what was it about them when you heard them because I have a theory about what it was for me like what I why I was and it's the same way I feel about your music so go ahead you first well I heard their voices first in that [22:48] And I was like... [22:54] what is that tone?

They don't sound male or female. They don't sound like they're singing to the same people that everyone else is singing to. There was just something galvanizing about their voices and the way they were making music that just pulled me out of myself as a 14-year-old, made me curious about who they were. It wasn't even one of their songs. [23:24] Thank you. [23:25] Swampophilia CD. And I was like, what is this? Listen to these harmonies. Who's singing when? It's staggered. It's out of time. It's amazing. And the drums really... I just became so obsessed with their musical complexity and harmonies that I just became devoted and a disciple.

I went to everything they ever did. I sat in the line all day at like [23:46] from morning till night, is a major fan, still a major fan. What drew you to them? I guess sometimes it feels like there's different artists. There's artists that are in their own simulation, their own kind of – [23:57] uh, [23:58] world and you get to come in and peek, but they're in their worlds. Right. Like, and it has a style of dress and a style of speak and like a presence of the culture around that.

And you can visit their world and you're, and you get to just peek in. And then there are artists and I consider you one of them. [24:13] who are relaxed and honestly confident in their talent, just like the Indigo Girls. And they say, come in, come over. Like, come over here. And they felt that way. We wanted to sing every one of their songs. I knew their lyrics. I felt like I sounded like them, which everybody who sings the Indigo Girls think they sound good. They don't. We don't. And it's the same with your music.

Like, when I sing along your music, I'm like, I think I'm really good. [24:43] um, [24:44] that's inclusive and that doesn't like shut the door. It's really, it's hard to explain, but do you know what I'm talking about? I know exactly what you're talking about. They're so unaffected. They sound like grown ass women. They always have. So like when they open their mouths to sing, their actual voice comes out. They're not trying to please men or a certain kind of women. They're not trying to sound like anybody else on the radio.

There was just something so human about even with the clothes they wore and the way that they presented themselves. And you're right. That does invite you in. [25:14] And also the Indigo Girls, they come to you. [25:16] Like they're famous for like touring the small towns and the sheds and the community theaters. Do you know me and Dratch played them on SNL? Yeah, I do remember that. Me and Rachel Dratch. One scene, it never came back. I don't know. And it was the Lance Armstrong, comedians, comedies, Lance Armstrong was the host.

And Neil Young was a musical guest. What a night. And we had Neil come into the Indigo Girls scene. And we just were like, I think we were just pretending we were doing a talk show, probably. [25:46] And it was us and like 14 dogs. Yeah. [25:51] That's exactly how Amy lives to this day. I think she's probably only got eight or nine right now. [25:58] And I feel like we'll move off the end of the girls, but I just have to say that it feels like as an alto, as a surprising alto.

[26:10] Because you would think, I don't know, I think my voice, I think my voice is lower than it is, but I think it pitches quite high. [26:16] Bye. [26:17] And switching, to your point, switching back and forth, like wanting to decide if you want to sing Emily's part or Amy's part. [26:24] Thank you. [26:25] Can we sing? [26:27] Can we sing? Okay, let's sing Closer to Flying. Here we go. Here we go. [26:31] Sorry, let me get my words. Not only could we do Closer to Fine, we could do a deep cut.

We could do anything you want. Okay, here we go. [26:38] I'll try to do Amy's part. Okay. [26:40] You start from I went to the doctor. Here we go. OK, one, two, three. What key are we in? I don't know. I went to the doctor. I went to the mountains. I should be lower. Yeah. So I think you're I went. That's you. I went to the doctor. OK. OK. Yeah. Two, three, four. I went to the doctor. I went to the mountains. I look to travel a little bit. Just a little bit.

A little bit. Yeah. [27:10] Yeah, just a joke. Fucking hell. You're right there, though. You're in the zone. Let's go again. Two, three, four. I went to the doctor. I went to the mountains. I looked to the children. I drank from the fountains. Girl, you got it. Look at how good you are, Brandi, making me feel so good. [27:40] for the next hour. I'm totally sweating. I'm so sweating. That was so exciting. Who was the first person that told you you had a good voice? [27:51] Because when someone says you have a good voice, like it.

[27:55] You remember it for a lifetime. No one's ever asked me that before. I think it was my grandma Dolores or my mom. And then definitely me. [28:06] I really felt like I had a good voice. Yeah. I got seven years old. That's a fucking great voice. But I didn't. When I listen back to it now, I'm like, what is that? Oh, it's seven? Yeah. Yeah. You know, but I actually got on stage. [28:20] For the first time as like an eight year old, I got in like a community theater show.

[28:25] Called the Northwest Grand Ole Opry, where we reenacted the Grand Ole Opry. So cute. And you'd go on Wednesday night and you'd teach the Opry band your song, and then they'd get you out on Friday and Saturday. And I was like the only kid. And I did Tennessee Flattop Box by Roseanne Cash. And I just remember like the very first time. [28:44] I did that. I walked out on stage. [28:47] And I wasn't nervous. I had glasses on and I can remember the lights in my glasses and seeing the kind of [28:53] silhouette of like 300 people and being like, this is where I belong.

[28:58] This is the safest, most understood and loved place I could ever. [29:05] I could ever be like, this is my job now. And it just never, it never... [29:10] went that just stayed wow and so the audience told you that you could sing like in that moment the audience was like yes we accept you here you're great yeah you knew it oh so great and the whole thing they would come up to you at the end of the show and you'd sign their program and you'd sign your little autograph and I just remember thinking yeah no this is it this is my job

[29:29] Wow. That's awesome. I mean, that's a good example too of like feeling calm in stressful situations. I tend to get like you, I'm not so nervous when I'm doing something. Sometimes after it's done, I have like this discharge of nerves. Does that happen to you? I was reading an article. [29:50] an article in The Guardian that is... [29:53] It was such a smart article and it made me feel so like stupid, but kind of proud to be stupid, where it basically says that like that what you're talking about is totally necessary in terms of performers.

These like it's such a unnatural thing to have your psychosympathetic nervous system to do what we do, that you have to lack an element of contextual intelligence to do it. Maybe I lack it. I lack it. [30:23] do penalty kicks and like free throws is like we have this thing where we don't think anything could go wrong totally and i'm just and i kind of dissociate in a way of like whatever babe what's the worst that can happen i get fired yeah and then if something does go wrong so if you do miss the free throw or you do miss the penalty which you do all the time right you don't think well of course i did chances are i would it's a tiny ball tiny net or whatever you just go that was [30:53] stupidity is what gives us our gift.

It's so true. I mean, SNL is a really good training ground for that. Live performance in general is really good because you have a mistake. Does this happen to you when there's a tiny mistake? Not a terrible, like you don't want something bad, but when there's a tiny mistake, do you get a little energized? Yeah. [31:13] Yeah, because you're like, I got to save it. Yeah, I can do one. I can't do two. Yeah. And it's a little bit exciting. Yeah, because two mistakes. No. [31:21] But one is like kind of good.

Do you remember a mistake that happened when you were performing and you just, you know, I don't know, like a mic went out or someone didn't come and get the like and you just had a moment of like pure excitement and that like the tingle of that? Yeah, but it happens so often. There isn't like a notable one. There's this guy I know that does guitar. So like this like guitar solo master. He's a dude that like I've toured with just because if I can have this happen twice in a show, it's like takes the show over the top.

[31:51] So this dude, and he will never admit this, but like he'll start out his guitar solo with like a couple of like maybe stock licks or just like a couple of notes that are like, oh, those are tasteful. And then he'll make a mistake. [32:05] And then it rallies everyone to his support. Like we rage to his side and we go, oh, no, he might not have this. Oh, so good. Oh, God. And then he looks a little frazzled and shakes his head a little bit and he kind of does the next lick and it's okay.

And by the end of it, he's just shredding. And you realize that there's no way he could ever make a mistake. But that mistake drawing everyone in, not just to listen to him, but to like you want to support him. Yeah. And then his victory becomes your victory. [32:35] One mistake does that in a performance or a song. Two mistakes is like she's not prepared. It's so true. And you're absolutely right. The way you take in the mistake, like, ha ha. Yeah. [32:48] This episode is brought to you by L.

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[35:19] com with the code Amy. [35:24] I've always felt this about the way you perform and seeing you like the way you talk about yourself and your music and your art and the way you look at like at the business of it all. It's supposed to be fun. And if you're relaxed, we're relaxed. Yeah. If you're having a good time, we're having a good time. Yeah. It's like if the bride has a good time at the wedding, it's a fun wedding, like period, the end. But it's a hard lesson to learn, which is,

[35:49] I mean, telling people to relax is really hard. How do you relax when you're about to perform? How do you just... [35:58] It just comes natural and always has. Well, I used to drink a little bit. Sure. And if you drink a little bit and then you stop drinking a little bit before you go on stage, then it's like starting over from never having drank a little bit. So that sucked. Yeah, I don't drink anymore. It's like I can't handle it. I mean. I just get too drunk too fast.

[36:19] I have no tolerance. I think I drink a lot of things really fast. I'm like a camel. Yeah. No, I know what you mean. Just a little bit. [36:28] I am not on my game. Yeah. Like, I'm not a shark. Right. And then it's, like, the spiral afterwards. That's the thing I can't deal with. Oh, no. And then, like, pretend the spiral just happened in front of, like, you know, a few thousand people. Oh, yeah. And then, like, whatever you say, like, you have to, like, stand by that the next day.

Right. So that's not— Right. We're back to the few minutes between the song. Back to the few minutes between the song. Right. Where you decide to get, like, overtly political in, like, an unironic way or you just—you make the joke and, you know, you were in the pick of destiny. [36:58] Yeah, Tenacious D. Yeah. I'm not going to tell this story again. I just told this story on Stern. Oh, you already told me. I don't want any Stern. I don't want any sloppy Stern seconds. I don't want any Stern seconds.

But you were in the film. But you've got to tell Stern. I love Howard. But when you're on Stern, you've got to give Stern a good story. Like, you've got to bring some meat to Howard Stern. I'm going to tell you the story, and you can edit it out if you want to. But I just think that you appreciate this because we are on the subject of drinking and then getting on stage in front of people. Yeah. [37:26] I thought everyone had seen The Pick of Destiny. [37:29] I don't mean to be offensive, but not everyone has seen The Pick of Destiny.

[37:33] Jack Black and Kyle Gass' Tenacious D. Jack Black is in a band called Tenacious D, which made a movie called The Pick of Destiny, which is a real cult classic. It's a cult classic, but it was my favorite movie, and I have memorized every line in these guys because this was how I was in bands like this. They have to win the Battle of Bands because they have to pay their rent, but they're never going to win the Battle of Bands without The Pick of Destiny, which is like a piece of the devil's horn or toenail or something.

[37:59] So, and it's like, but to win the Battle of the Bands, they've got to learn a couple of moves. And one of the moves is called the rock slide. The other move is called the cock push-up. [38:09] Yeah, they used to do cock push-ups. They used to do cock push-ups. And so my audience didn't see the pick of destiny, but I believed everyone had seen the pick of destiny. Right. So I was in Las Vegas. I was on stage and I was having a few drinks and I decided to jump off the drum riser.

[38:29] Randy, the knees just didn't hold. They just buckled. And so I kind of like went on my knees and I kind of styled it. And I did like the rock back on the knees thing. And after the song, I stood up. And this is the this is why I'm afraid of the 15 seconds between the songs. And I said to the audience, I said, well, now that you've seen my rock slide. Now it's time for my cock. This is a good this is a good story for starting. And that that didn't go over.

Nobody knew. [38:59] Nobody knew why Brandy was telling, you know, a couple thousand middle-aged lesbians that she was going to do a cock push-up. [39:09] Do you have her eyes? So I don't drink anymore. Are you done drinking? Are you done drinking? I'm not done. I'm done drinking and working. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, I just think it gets harder as we get older. Yeah. I just think it's like everything is harder and everything is better. Yeah. Like, what's good about getting older? [39:29] with this migraine medication in my pocket at all times.

Not a sponsor. No, it's unsponsored, but that's just there. Yeah. Okay. So I can't really drink. Can we talk about these packages? How do you get into it? You rip it apart with your teeth because you're desperate. Well, that's because you have your own teeth. Not everybody has their own teeth. So what were [39:59] Get older, I love... [40:00] being older more than I loved being younger. Yeah, me too. I just love it. I like everything. I like the way that my reverence has grown and sense of humor has changed.

I choose myself in more situations. I like the way my face looks. I like, you know, I like it. Yeah, me too. I mean, I don't think enough people talk about it. They just don't talk about like, I mean, 50s have, I'm 54. The 50s have been my favorite decade. Oh, by far. That's what I think is going to happen. [40:30] that comes along with it. And especially for people who don't feel like they're in the place they should be, like that feels really hurt, can be really hurtful and stressful or they're not with the person they should be with, or they've had a lot that they've gone through.

But I don't think enough people talk about how it just can get better and better and better. We're just so, we're so obsessed with youth, you know, and yeah, we really, we really, and I love young people too. [41:00] that space be there, you know, and I have kids too. And I'm like, Oh my God, be a kid, be a kid. But if I'm really honest, that wasn't my favorite part of my life. Even if, you know, I walked in front of a bus tomorrow and I got to like my life flash before my eyes.

I think I'd probably see the last five years. [41:17] Yes. [41:19] Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of young people that love you and [41:25] Thank you. [41:26] relate to you and feel seen by you and love your music. And you do this thing, I think, for a lot of people where you bridge, um, [41:35] older artists and bring people, [41:38] them back into this like present world. And there's a million people that you work with, incredible artists. First of all, what is it like to work with your heroes like Elton John, Joni Mitchell?

Like when you meet them, how do you manage that feeling of [41:54] Indigo Girls, where you are like, I was a young Brandy was a fan waiting outside. And now we're together. [42:02] And I'm going to, [42:03] you know, I'm kind of [42:05] helping produce this thing we're doing together? How do you, what's that feeling? Like, how do you do it? That's a really good question. And it's a sacred feeling. It's a really sacred feeling because like, and I guess also the older I get and the more young people do come up to me and say things to me that I remember saying to my heroes, it like, I'm, I'm that kind of fan.

Like I'm a wait outside your door bus kind of fan. So like, [42:29] I'm hearing these words and I'm like, I remember those words. And I'm just remembering, like, I'm just understanding how full circle life can be and how human we all are. I actually don't see, I don't even understand, like, what a fan is without the context of me, you know, because everybody that, like, I... [42:48] I really idolize, like I've got to be friends with. And so there is a part of that, you know, [42:54] That never goes away.

And it sort of like sneaks up on you like deja vu or something. You'll be in an interaction that is feeling totally normal. And then suddenly one thing will flash through the room and you'll be like, oh. [43:08] oh my God, this is Elton John. And it's like those moments are... [43:13] I really cherish him. I just grab him and hold on to him and I go, yeah, yeah, you did it. You did it. Yeah. And it's also an indication that you're still in touch with that part of yourself. Like you don't feel like above it or beyond it or over it.

Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah. And staying in touch with that part of myself. [43:31] keeps me honest in my responsibility within my job to other people that like my music and, you know, buy that concert ticket and get the babysitter and, you know, get dressed up and go out for the night. Like, I'm really going to show up for that gig because I just understand. [43:48] What's Elton like? I've never met him and he seems incredible. [43:53] Also, he's always discovering new artists. Yeah, always. He's really into new music all the time.

You've never met him? No. See, that's the other thing is most people have met Elton because he's so social and he's just so like you will meet him. He's like a real extrovert. Absolutely love him. Total extrovert. But like one of those people that's reached Elton. [44:13] Maybe the most iconic character. [44:16] status that you can possibly reach with absolutely no trace of narcissism. [44:22] Whoa. I know. He's competitive, and he's intense, and he knows he's Elton John. I'm a competitive person. Oh, God. I know. So do I. I mean, I have a lot of it.

You've got to want to try to win a little bit. But he will ask you questions and listen to your answers and be just genuinely intrigued by you. And that's why he's discovering all these younger artists. He's just an exceptional man. Once in a millennium, man. And you've worked with Dolly, who just... [44:47] That's another one. What is it like to sing next to Dolly? What does that feel like? Dolly Parton. She's impeccable. She does not miss. So the standard is like so high. Like Dolly is the boss. [45:01] And so when I show up, [45:03] for Dolly like I show up on time, buttoned all the way up to the top button, and I don't miss.

[45:09] I know everything I'm supposed to do. And [45:12] She doesn't, like, ask you. [45:14] To meet that standard, but it's there. Like, Dolly has high expectations. And yeah, she's just... [45:21] Amazing. And the work you've done recently with Joni by Joni's side is just so cool. It felt like you were the professional and the fan at the same time on stage. That's such a nice thing to say. Oh, that's such a nice thing to say. And I... [45:38] We... [45:40] to look at it. I felt like a... [45:42] a lot of the time because that music was so wildly different.

[45:49] Thank you. [45:50] complex and inaccessible to me at first. Even though I was a fan of it, I had never... [45:55] Had to get inside of it and learn phrasing and learn, you know, the key changes, the melody. It's a roller coaster. The melodies are roller coasters. You don't having those twists and turns ready and then take that and combine it with the fact that Joni doesn't ever like to do the same thing twice. And if she thinks if she thinks, you know what she's going to do, she's not going to do it.

So it's a really wild thing. [46:18] getting to sit shotgun next to Joni. And as her recovery has progressed, and she's gotten more and more and more that way, and I see the spirit of who Joni Mitchell has always been more and more every day that she delves into her own music. And it must be so cool to talk to young teenagers who are discovering her for the first time. Well, they come up to me en masse. That's probably the thing I... [46:41] end up talking about the most. And I love it.

Like I never grow tired of talking about Joni and the [46:49] Younger people and much older people alike, that is the thing everyone comes to me and says, okay, look, I've got Joni Mitchell's lyrics tattooed on my arm, you know, like, really, like Gracie Abrams, like, that's how I met Gracie, you know. I'm also thinking about that sweet... [47:06] uh, performer, um, [47:08] Benicio. Oh, yeah, Benicio. Who sang the joke with you many times, which is what an incredible song. And just the way... [47:18] And it's not easy to sing with legends and young people who are kind of just starting out on their journey.

The way you performed with Emily Chris Farley. I'm like, remember that? [47:33] That's my question. Do you remember when you did it? I do. I remember Benicio. [47:38] But that was such a beautiful moment, too. It really changed. Yeah. [47:43] How does a song change depending on who you perform it with? Well, first of all, the innocence of that with Benicio, I was so impulsive back then. The school I went to, the public school I went to in the town I live in, a couple times a year, I'll do something for them.

I'll just go speak in an assembly or whatever. It actually feels good to be cool in that school now that I'm an adult. Because you were not as a kid. No, no one was. [48:13] I, [48:13] sang that song and it was just it was stunning and i was like i'm gonna be on tv next week come with me to new york and i could be so impulsive like the stakes were like i don't want to say they were low but it felt like the stakes were really low like back then like i didn't know what i was gonna wear and i just took a kid from my school with me you know and i remember like it had been no big deal to me because i'd already been doing it so much at that point you know and when we they say on those um what was it what was it seth or was it okay this is a great question

[48:43] have a laptop okay i can't find it i can't remember which one it was but it said late show which could mean 45 different shows yeah i said they had the word late in it and i thought it was jimmy fallon but then it might have been cobert was late at night there's a white man i should be able to find it but i cannot find it and also i'm not great at looking things up well they in those in these shows which i love doing they say you can go you can retake if you need to but you don't you're not [49:13] And he totally froze.

And we walked backstage at the thing and he was just crying. And I was like, Benny, I understand. It's like you're so young and maybe, I don't know, I should have talked to you about this a little bit more. It's okay. Listen, you're not supposed to retake it, but let me go out and see if they'll let us do it again. And they did. And so the band went back out, reset up, and we did it again. The real lesson in that was if there was anything about that, [49:43] that was...

[49:45] I think really good for Benicio's growth was [49:48] That, that mistake, that failure, that moment of, you know, catastrophe turned into like a total triumph. It was so triumphant. And that makes so much sense because your joy in the way he was... [50:03] Mm-hmm. [50:04] singing with you. Like you could feel it in that performance. And it makes a lot of sense that you were like, really excited that he was nailing it. Yeah. And it was twice the victory because he got it together. Like that thing we have to do, we have to pull it together.

[50:16] And just that's what winners do. Yeah. I mean, not like it's competition, but well done, Benicio. Can I ask you your relationship to... [50:24] Your hair. Because it's a deeper question for me about how we all play around with our mask and femme energy. Yeah, yeah, totally. And you, you know, when you were young, watching Lilith Fair, and then when you came out as an artist, like when I first saw you, you know, you had like long hair. And I'm... [50:46] curious how how you have changed and how your hair has changed and like are they connected yeah and that's such a like interesting and intuitive question like no one has ever asked me a question like that before but and i'm very conscious of my hair me too i mean i think i think hair is political right like yeah and it's and it's interesting our relationship with it and it changes all the time and we're telling people who we are right through it yeah well somebody asked [51:16] like I had like stepped into my authentic self.

And I just without even thinking about it said, when I cut my hair. [51:21] When I cut my hair. [51:22] And at that time in my life, yeah, if you saw on the Lilith doc, I had like a little boy, like almost buzz cut, like haircut. And I loved it. It was so freeing. I loved having it off my neck. I loved that my mom hated it. I loved everything about like that haircut.