Kerry Washington

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer? [00:09] Oof. Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. [00:29]. [00:34] Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. Very, very excited about our guest today.

It is the one, the only Carrie Washington. Carrie is so talented. She is so good at so many things. And we're going to talk about a lot of those things today. We are going to talk about growing up in the Bronx, the Bronx, and how it shaped her and what she learned from being from there. And we're going to talk about her activism, how she stays connected in a turbulent and often [01:04] And we're going to get to the nitty gritty in a lot of that. And we're going to talk about Amazing Race.

[01:10] A random show that we talk about and talk about how good it is for kids. We're going to talk about her new TV show, Imperfect Women, with Elizabeth Moss and Kate Mara that's coming out on Apple. All of these things are going to be discussed today. [01:23] But most importantly, we're going to discuss her with someone who loves her. And who is that person? Fitz. [01:30] That's right. Tony Goldwyn, writer, producer, director, just coming off of directing... [01:37] Shea Joey, a new musical with Savion Glover that is hopefully on its way to Broadway.

We're catching Tony right after rehearsal. He's tired and still he can't wait to profess his admiration for his co-star. So let's see if we can get him on the Zoom horn. Tony, are you there? [02:03] This episode is presented by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking that the fake roast chicken is, in fact, a fake roast chicken before chomping into a wing. Rookie mistake. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate.

Potential savings vary. Subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and Affiliates. [02:31] Northbrook, Illinois. [02:41] Tony? Hi, Amy, how are you? Thank you for talking to us today, because I have to say that [02:49] The relationship that you and Carrie had on screen and off screen is really, really wonderful to watch. And people are very invested in it. And what I what I have to say is what I glean from the the. [03:03] The way you two interact with each other is a deep mutual respect. [03:08] Mm hmm.

Deep, deep respect for the way you work and the kind of people that you are. Can you tell us how you first met? My first recollection we may have met briefly before this was at the Democratic Convention meeting. [03:19] when Obama became president in 2008 in Denver, which was a really incredible experience. You bet. And then we kind of became friends through kind of social activism and stuff, but didn't know each other well. [03:33] But for me, when Shonda asked me to do Scandal and she told me Kerry Washington was doing it, [03:39] I, uh...

[03:41] I carry was an actress who every time I saw her in a movie, I found myself going crazy. [03:46] who is that actress in that role? Yeah. Cause she was so different in every movie she did. And at the end of the credits, you know, I'd look and I go, Oh my God, that's Kerry Washington. She's just was so great. And, and everything I saw that was Ray or last King of Scotland. I remember seeing her, but again, totally different than anything I'd seen. So I, I was just like, God, I hope I get a chance to work with her.

So when Shonda said to me, she's like, are you playing the president in my new show? And I was like, [04:14] Well, Shonda Rhimes writing a president. That should be pretty interesting when she said Kerry Washington. I was like, you and Kerry Washington, I'm in. Had you known Shonda before? Had you worked with Shonda before? Yeah, I met Shonda. I directed the, I think the second or third episode of Grey's Anatomy. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was one of the first TV things I'd done. I directed a couple of movies and then Betsy Beers, Shonda's partner, called me and said, you know, we'd like, would you consider doing Grey's Anatomy?

And I saw the pilot of that show [04:44] wow, this is amazing. Of course. And I was just getting used to directing TV. So I did that. And Shonda and I met and she was brand new to television. Little did we know she was going to become Empress of the Universe. Yeah, totally. But I knew the second I met Shonda too, I was like, oh, this woman's the real deal. It's so interesting that you and Carrie met in real life doing a [05:04] political work. I'm really in awe of how she stays connected to the real world while also playing these people.

Like those two things don't always happen. She does. I mean, first of all, she's like, [05:16] She's got this amazing husband, Nandi. She's a totally, fully devoted mom of three kids, you know, and – [05:27] And yet she's like 1,000% [05:32] In everything she does. I don't know how she does it. And I can't ask her because she's too modest. She'd just like laugh in my face. If I was like, you're amazing. How do you do it? You know, she wouldn't take it. Yeah. You know, I'm... [05:46] I'm I've I've I learn a lot.

I learn. I always learn a lot from her. What was it like? She was kind of the leader of the show. She was number one on that call sheet. Carrie, from the get go, we had an amazing cast of great people, all grownups. No, you know, jerks in the cast. But Carrie said, I. [06:05] atone by example. She works harder than anybody. And then that role, she worked so hard. I have a funny story. We talked about leading by example. And I think it was maybe... [06:18] our fifth season or something like that, when we were going to premiere the season, Good Morning America wanted us to be on the show, but they wanted us to be on as they're opening at 7

m. to do it. So we're like, great, great, great, great, great. And then I was in the makeup trailer, and some of the actors were like, wait, so we're in A. Wait, 7 m. means we're like 4 m. We have to be here. Where we're working is everyone's sort of bitching and moaning about having to be. Well, that means you have to be in the girls. And that means we've got to get up at 2.30 to be in hair and makeup. [06:48] doing? I'm not sure. Well, did you? And I'm kind of like, well, I don't know.

I mean, you guys want to get made up that much. So we're going, well, what should we do? What do we think? Well, let's see what, so it was one of those things of actors kind of thing, like children. And we go to the, I'm on set and one, Darby and I, Darby Stansfield, a wonderful Darby Stansfield was in our cast. We're talking about it. And Carrie walks into the set, onto the stage. She wasn't working. [07:18] morning America. Like, maybe I was like, well, why don't you go ask her, see how she feels about it.

So Darby goes up to Carrie, and this is classic Carrie Washington. Darby goes, Carrie, you know, this good morning America thing that's happening at like 7 m. And I think we've got to get there at like 2 o'clock in the morning. And I'm just wondering why, and Carrie's like, [07:33] Of course, we're doing it [07:35] Dormi, [07:36] We're in season five and ABC wants to promote us by putting us on Good Morning America like – [07:42] of course we're getting up two in the morning to do this. Like, isn't it amazing that they want to put us on their opening up their show?

And Tarby goes, yes. [07:52] I think it's so fantastic. She comes running over to me and I'm like, yep. [07:57] That's quintessential Kerry Washington. I mean, I want to talk to her about that because she has this work ethic. That's really, really, you can feel it. And, and it's, and it's, you know, [08:07] It feels very collaborative and inclusive. It doesn't feel like strident, but I'm really curious where she gets it from. I don't know. It's for real. Yeah. It's just for real. It comes out of a kind of joy and passion and some – [08:19] intense inner drive that she does have.

I mean, you know, no one works as hard as she's just something drives her. Part of it, I think, is... [08:27] I mean, she's a... [08:29] She has a lot of gifts to give the world and a limited amount of time to give. Well, I want to ask her about that. How does she stay? You know, how do you stay? How does one stay involved in this time of like deep fatigue? [08:45] And deep, like every day is really feels really harder and rougher than the next. And there's a lot of people hurting and a lot of people struggling.

How do you stay healthy? [08:56] How do you stay in it? It's a big question. And she's got an answer for herself, which I think can be... [09:02] useful to all of us. I mean, I want to ask her about that [09:06] I sort of had two things that I would... Yeah, what do you want to ask? Well, there are things that I... [09:12] As I told you, if I asked her myself, she'd laugh at my face. [09:17] You know, we talked about her activism and Carrie as an activist, she's a woman.

[09:22] She's not a normal celebrity activist, which is a great thing. You know, people who donate their time and their money and their image and their passion to two things that they care about. Carrie does it on a level like next to maybe Jane Fonda. I've never seen anybody like that. She's it's. [09:38] it's become a fully professionalized, fully operational part of her business. It's like, she doesn't do anything. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it for real and have a major impact. Um, and, uh, [09:51] Yeah, so I just would love to hear her talk about how that became so...

[09:56] professional so full on you know yeah and then i guess the second thing i was i wanted to ask her which i could never she would never answer to me is the drive we talked about like and i wonder as a parent [10:08] Thank you. [10:09] When you have that much drive as a human being, I'm curious, does she like impart that to them? Yeah. Or is it something she just lays back and has to dial that back in order to let them kind of be them or find it for themselves?

And I wonder. It's such a good question. No, we do this. Yeah. Like, how do you lead by example? How do you figure out what is the right thing for your kid before you go? And those are great questions. And I want to talk to her about both those things. [10:39] I want to get into with her. What does it feel like to have done a show that's so still so beloved? I mean, people feel such a connection to that show still. It is. And of those characters, I'll just say it reminds me a little bit of.

[10:56] When me and Adam Scott talk about our characters on Parks and Rec, we love Ben and Leslie's love. [11:02] Like we love their love. And it feels like you and Carrie both get that where people are into things. [11:11] you, your characters love. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. It constantly amazes me. I mean, I guess because of Netflix and whatnot, people, people, [11:22] just this past month or two, [11:24] had been coming up to me a whole lot going, oh, my God, I just finished Scandal. I just discovered, like, people were just discovering it.

And I'm like, didn't we finish that seven years ago? And we had such a beautiful, like you said about you and Adam, we had such a beautiful time doing it. And a group of deep friendships were made, which more than any other job I've ever done. You know, I have some really close friends from over the years that I've worked with, [11:54] years and we're all still really tight. Well, I so appreciate you talking to us. Thank you for the questions. Carrie will be so happy that we talked. Such a fan.

Congrats on the musical. Cannot wait to see it. Cannot wait till it goes to Broadway. Cannot wait till it wins the Tony and eventually turns into a film that you direct. Thanks, Amy. Tell Carrie I love her. I will. I will. Thank you so much, Tony. Thanks for your time. [12:20] Bye. It was great to see you. Bye. You too. All right. Listen up. Ralph's King Soopers, Harris Teeter, Food for Less, Kroger and more are now on Uber Eats and you get 40% off your order of $30 or more. Maybe you're trying a new recipe and need some last minute ingredients, or maybe the kids made a mess and you're lower on cleaning supplies than you thought.

Whatever you need, you can get it delivered in as little as 25 minutes. So order now on Uber Eats and get 40% [12:50] with code KROGER2026. Plus, Uber One members get $0 delivery fees. Orders of $30 or more save up to $25. Ends May 31st, 2026. See you out for details. [13:05] You're in a denim sandwich. I am. So happy that you're here. Thanks for doing this. I'm so excited. I want to start because I'm obsessed with New York kids. Oh. I mean, I grew up in the suburbs of Boston.

Kids that grew up in New York, [13:20] We're a different breed. You are. And you grew up in the Bronx. I did. What was it like growing up in the Bronx, little Carrie? What was the Bronx like when you were growing up? The thing about being from the Bronx, and I just did a speech about this, a whole entire speech, because I was presenting Jennifer Lopez with an award. And she and I went to the same Boys and Girls Club in the Bronx. And I was saying in the speech that...

[13:42] The Bronx is like the underdog borough. It's like the forgotten borough. You know, like Brooklyn had Spike Lee and Queens has all the airports and the cemeteries and like Astoria. But the Bronx is like the forgotten borough. And people... [13:55] Don't expect much of you when you're from the Bronx. And so there's like a hustle. There's a certain kind of hustle and determination to... [14:05] Make it if there's something you want to do. There's a different kind of strength and resilience, I think, from people who are from the Bronx.

I agree. And it feels like that. And also, Fred Armisen does a really funny bit about this. Fred does all the accents of different parts of New York. And he always talks about the Bronx. Yes. And how it's even the word with an X in it. So it's also, yes, it has an X. It's also the only borough that has a the in front of it. You don't say the Brooklyn. [14:35] The Bronx. It's like a thing. Yes. It's a whole thing. It's so true. And there's a working class vibe, certainly.

Yes, for sure. And a sense of pride. But you're right. There is a... It's like a scrappy, scrappy, hustler vibe to it that I'm really proud of. Yeah. Super proud. I don't think I would have the things I have or have done that. But I have to tell you, this is a little bit of a tangent, but I don't want to forget to say this. I love tangents. This morning when I got up, I was thinking about... I was prepping for this interview. [15:05] I was like, I remember my first Time 100 dinner that I ever had the blessing to attend.

You were one of the Time 100 recipients and your speech was... [15:17] changed my life. It was extraordinary because you got up. It was like you stood up at the tables. Do you remember this? Everybody stood up in the room and the tables and you thanked [15:30] your nanny. [15:31] That's who you thanked in your speech. Yeah. I owe my nannies. Nannies. A lot. And I was thinking about it this morning because it really moved me. I got very emotional. But I was like, I wasn't even a mom then. I wasn't a mom yet.

And I think, like now when I think about it, it's one of the things I love about you because you do credit the people who make it possible, right? And I know, like, I'd be nothing without the support that I have with childcare, home, all that. [16:00] I think growing up in the Bronx, my grandmother, like I went to a very fancy upper east side. I went to the same school as Gwyneth went to. I went to fancy upper east school. [16:10] Upper East Side School, my grandmother used to cook and clean houses in that neighborhood.

And so I think there was a part of me that when you got up in... [16:19] thanked your support team, your home staff, it made me feel like my family was seen. It made me think of my grandmother and that you were thanking the people that other people like to ignore or pretend don't exist or want to like marginalize. It just was so moving. Carrie, thank you for saying that. I think people like to make the hardworking class often invisible. [16:49] And also it's just mean to other women because it's like nobody's doing this alone.

Nobody's doing this by themselves. That's right. And you don't get more credit by making other humans invisible. Like it doesn't make you more perfect. Well, I feel like a lot of the work that you do is exactly that, is making sure that people feel visible and feel seen. Like whether it's the art you're making or the stuff that you're fighting for. Yeah, yeah. And it makes sense to me that like. It would impact me that way. Yeah. And I heard it that way. Yeah. [17:19] Yeah, just a little mic drop on

M. Just, yeah. She taught me how to dance. Can you just tell us? What do you mean? So we had this dance teacher named Larry Maldonado. And Larry was a dream. Larry taught me so much. He was like this very eccentric gay man dance teacher. And he ran the dance program at the Boys and Girls Club. And he got really sick in the 80s, like a lot of people did. And... [17:47] And Jennifer is not that much older than me, but she's a little bit older than me. So she was one of the big girls at the club.

And so when Larry went into the hospital, she started teaching dance. Wow. She was teaching the little girls classes. So I mean, if I was like eight, she was 16 or something like that. But she was teaching. So I learned like hip hop and flamenco and like all I learned to dance from Jennifer. She's never hired me to dance in any of her videos, but I don't know what that says. That's wild. It's so crazy. [18:17] like a 16 year old girl. They're just, and they're good. They're the most beautiful, talented.

Yes. I remember right before she left to go off to LA to pursue her dream of being famous. Um, she did this duet dance with Larry. So he must've gotten better and was back. And it was like very risque. We weren't supposed to watch it. The little girls were like, no, this is not for you. It was like later on in the dance program, but we all hid in the wings because we couldn't not [18:47] and it was just, yeah, she's always been a real inspiration for me. Oh, that's so cool.

What a fun, to use a Gwyneth term, like sliding doors moment. Yes, totally. Where you see you again in 20 years in a different world. So wild. And you went to Spence. I did. And you were in Midsummer Night's Dream with Gwyneth. With Gwyneth. It's the only time I've ever worked with her. [19:10] You've not worked with J-Lo or Gwyneth since. No. You guys, I'm good. We have history. I'm available. [19:17] Gwyneth, Jennifer. Who were you in Midsommar? Because I was also in that play. Who were you? You were Puck.

I wish. Who were you? I was Peas Blossom. Of course you were. One of the fairies. That's so cute. I was a fairy too. And I don't remember which one. I know. They're all of names. You might've been Peas Blossom. I bet I was. Soulmate. So I just kind of, I was like a, just like a background dancer. Yes. Same. Did you know, I mean, I feel like you could do many [19:47] But I like that you think that. And I feel like, you know, there's probably a point in your life where you had to have a real, like, you know, you grew up around a lot of artists.

You knew from an early age that you were a creative person. But did you make a decision like, I'm going to be... [19:59] I'm going to be an actress? Yeah, I did. And what age? So I was halfway through college. Okay. Yeah. Pretty late. Yeah. Pretty late. And I went to college on an acting scholarship, which I didn't even know existed, but, and it was sort of like being on a basketball scholarship. Like I went, I had to audition for all the plays. I really got benched. I got to do a lot of theater.

Right. And so that was maybe the beginning of being like, oh, people will give me money, like significant amounts of money to do this because it was helping to pay for my education. [20:29] college, I did this summer conservatory program at Michael Howard Studios in Chelsea in New York. And that was the first time in my life that from the moment I woke up, you know, to the moment I went to bed, all I did was act. There was no like hiding behind other classwork or being an academic or it just was like, I was just an artist all day long, every day.

[20:52] And I was so happy. You loved it. I was so happy. Yeah. And I was doing like clown work and improv and scene study and acting as a business class. And I just was like, I couldn't get enough. Yeah. I wanted to sleep there at night. I just, I was like, I, so I thought, okay, I'm going to try to do this. I gave myself one year after college and I was like, if I can get a significant job in this year, then I'll go for it. And, but at the same time, I had like the workbooks next to my bed to study for the LSAT.

[21:22] Oh, LSATs. [21:24] Interesting. I thought maybe grad school for psych, but I, but that even would is like, well, I'm going to try for law school first. And in a, in a, again, sliding doors away, you would be what kind of lawyer? Right now I'm thinking of like all's fair. I'd be like a badass divorce lawyer, sexy, Sarah Paulson type, but I don't know. Whatever it is, sexy. I wear heels. [21:54] and your life gets to you no matter how, you know? So maybe I would have been a crisis person and I figured out how to be that person.

I mean, my mom, who desperately did not want me to be an artist, she's a professor of education and she was like, I just, I don't want you to starve. You know, she just, the idea of a starving artist. And I brought my parents with me the first time I was at the Emmys. The first time I was nominated at the Emmys, I brought them. And we were sitting at the governor's ball and my mom's like cutting into her steak. And I was like, anybody starving? [22:24] She was like, you're doing okay.

But I think, oh, God, I lost my train of thought. I was like, that was not a humble story to tell. No, I love that story. And also what I feel like is you gave yourself a year, and in that year something big happened. Yes. What was the break? You're good at this. Yeah, I'm good at listening. [22:44] Thanks. Let's brag about ourselves for a second. You're so good at this. You kept track. That's really my one job because you're not intimidated by the tangents. I like I can bring this back.

And I honestly, if you care to know, I do. I think about the tangents. I don't know if you think I'm much more of a visual. Great. Learner and remember. So I think about a tangent when when you're talking. I think about literally a line going out like this and I picture it going out like that. [23:14] I'm like, just don't forget to get it. I actually visualize it so I don't forget it. Do you do that in your improv work? Like when you're doing a sketch, it's really similar, right?

I think more and more I'm learning that I visualize things in order to remember them. Like I try to give it some kind of like... [23:29] picture in my mind. Yeah, because you have to, in the scene work, let it go. You have to be open to the exploration, but then also remember you got to land the plane. So your first big break. See, did you see that was magic? Did you see that happen? Oh my God. What would you consider? Because there's a lot of things that could be your first big break.

I think, so I gave myself this year, [23:59] having its 25th anniversary this year. Tell us about that film. It was this really tiny, scrappy, independent film. I mean, our entire transpo department consisted of like four Metro cards. Rest in peace, Metro cards. Exactly. We had no wardrobe department. I mean, it was an incredible experience because we were stealing shots on the subway. We didn't have permits, but it was a story of these three girls growing up in Brooklyn. And I wanted this part [24:29] so badly. I learned to be in a marching band to be in the movie because it was about a summer in these three girls lives in Brooklyn that are all part of this marching band.

It was the best experience. When I was a kid, we lived in this high rise that was across the water from LaGuardia airport. And we were like in a flight path where at the 12th floor, we were the top floor. These airplanes would fly by when I was a kid and I would always want to be on those airplanes. Like, [24:59] Have adventures. And when we were filming our song, we were stealing shots on the A train in Far Rockaway, close to Kennedy Airport. And I remember sitting on a train and a plane going over and thinking, nope, there's nowhere else I want to be.

I want to be right here. How cool. Doing what I'm doing. You can't put me on a plane right now. I am like in... [25:19] this is it. This is it. I'm in the pocket. That's such a cool feeling. I mean, you kind of wish it for everybody. You do. Right. That whatever they're doing, they realize like, this is exactly what I want to be doing. Yeah. I wish that for my kids. I wish it for myself even like project to project because sometimes you sign on for something and you're like, oh, this is exactly what I thought it would be or better.

Like this is better than I could have imagined. And it feels so good. And sometimes you're like, what time is lunch? Yeah. I know. When you, when did you first? [25:49] We do. We're blessed. I think it's really hard. I think it's as hard as coal mining. [25:53] I think acting is harder than brain surgery. I don't know why more actors don't win the Nobel Prize. Yeah, I agree. Because we bring peace. When people talk about brain surgery, I'm like, try acting. Honestly? Seriously, for one day. Because I'm in your brain doing surgery.

Exactly. Metaphorically. You know what I mean? Yeah. Multiple patients a year. Who's starving now? [26:19] See what I mean? Do you see what she does? She's brilliant. [26:24] Okay. Yeah. Tell me when you first heard about Scandal, was it written for you? Mm-mm. I mean, Shonda, one of one. She's one of one. What an incredible... [26:37] Like, yeah, truly. So it was a night it was an idea out there that you heard about. And did you feel like I, I have got to get that? So, you know, there's been a lot of talk.

When Scandal came out, a lot of the headlines were like, this is the first time that a black woman is leading a network drama in almost 40 years. Like it hadn't happened in my lifetime. I'd never seen it. Crazy drama. So. [26:59] You can imagine that when word on the street was that there was a show that was starring a black woman that was going to be on ABC. People went crazy. Everybody wanted to read for it. And God bless Shonda. She was like, I didn't have the heart to say no.

So she read everybody from like 15 to 85. Everybody wanted to be Olivia Pope. She read everybody. She met with tons of people. I heard about the project. And I was really a film actor. It was that time when like film actors were starting to do television. Did you have done a Spikes movie? I had done. [27:29] That's right. I had done Ray. I had done Lacky of Scotland. Yes. Great film. So I was like, I was like the good luck charm. Like if you hire me to play your wife, you'll win an Academy Award for Swittaker, Jamie Foxx.

So I... [27:43] I wasn't hesitant to do television because I was starting to see that there were these incredible women like – [27:49] Glenn Close was doing damages. And, you know, you were starting to see it that there were opportunities for women to play antiheroes and have like more rich experience in television and movie stars were doing more TV. And so, so. [28:02] I wanted to read the script. I was like, if it's great, I'll consider it. And I read it and I was like, oh, I'm, I, it was one of those things where like I threw the script across the room.

Cause I was like, this is, I have to play her. It's for me. Like, no, I have to be unfortunate thing where there were like [redacted address]. And so we all auditioned and auditioned and auditioned. And did you have to come in and come in and come in? I met with her first because I was at a certain place in my career. I could do a meeting first. So I met with her and I remember getting off the elevator and there was a huge, [28:32] sign that said Shonda land. And I was like, Oh, I don't know about this.

Right. Like it's your land. Right. Like, what does that mean? Right. I have a country I live in. Yeah. You know, you always want to be careful when people say their own name too much. It can be, yeah, you never know. And then I sat down with her and I was like, I'm in. Yeah. Like I will give up my citizenship to live in this land of yours. It was just, I loved her. It's interesting. You have to [29:02] take care of other people. Yeah. And do you feel like in playing that character, you learn anything about how you take care of other people in your life?

Like, are you a fixer? I could and almost did write an entire book on the things I learned from Olivia Poe. She taught me. Tell me a couple chapters. The biggest thing was she, and I feel like you'll really understand this. She taught me how to be a number one, like at work and in my life. [29:32] like step into leadership and not shy away from it and to be team captain, to not be afraid of it. That whole like, it's my name on that door. Like she taught me to not be afraid of that.

Because I always thought, I mean, I had this role model of Jennifer Lopez, but I was like, I'm not that like, I'm not that pretty. And I don't dance like that. And I just I thought, I'm never going to be the kind of actor who's like on the cover of magazines. I'm just gonna I [30:02] do a few commercials a year, do a lot of theater and just live a happy artist life. So she really taught me to not be afraid to step into more. [30:13] And that was extraordinary. And yes, I think there was, there is with her...

[30:20] I don't know if she taught me how to be a fixer. I think I brought a lot of that to her. Like it was written that way. I don't mean to say I invented it, but I already understood the need to want to make things. [30:34] things around me better and to help people and to like, that's in me. It's a little bit of like an only child thing. And, um, [30:43] maybe a little bit of my own codependency. Like there is something in me that wants... [30:50] to help other people.

I mean, even that joke I made about like, if you hire me to play your wife, you'll win an Academy Award. Like I do take a lot of pride in the fact that I think that, [30:59] When I go home at night, I want to know not only that I did my best work as an actor, but I take a lot of pride in helping other actors do their best work across from me in the scene. Sure. Like, I want my scene partner to be like, whoa. I didn't know. You know, you can do things to, like, push each other and make it better.

And, like, that idea of the water, we all rise together. Like, I love that. I love helping people win. [31:29] Tony, you love your cast. Like you're in a marriage. You're really in like a long marriage where you have to like each other. Yes. Yes. It's family. It's really interesting because this is like what the fans don't want to hear. But I really am so grateful for the healthy relationships that I was able to have also with the men on that show, like Scott Foley and Tony Goldwyn. Like I love their wives.

They love my husband. Like there's so much. Okay. Well, let's talk about this. Yeah. [31:59] ship you guys all the time. Ship us so hard. And we, by the way, we like to fuck with people. Of course. I post stuff all the time with Tony. And that's how you can tell everyone's secure. Yeah. Yes. That's how you can tell. That's the key. Because you can tell that everybody's feeling totally fine and enjoying it. Because when people don't do that, then you can't fuck around. That's the scandal. Hey! No, but I mean, it's like that's the sense I got from watching you two work together and

[32:29] And, and, and, [32:30] Full disclosure, we talked to Tony for this podcast. What? What did he tell you? I'll tell you. Tell me all the things. I love him so much. I know. If he said anything bad, I'll kill him. [32:48] Did he tell you that he likes my husband better than he likes me? Because that's the truth. Well, I'm obsessed with your husband. I am too. Nandi was so funny on The Kroll Show, by the way. He was so funny on The Kroll Show. He's so funny. He's really funny.

I love him. [33:00] And okay, so you're saying like you guys were able to have a healthy, working, appropriate platonic relationship where you were able to discover these characters together and enjoy the fact that people love them together. Yes. I love that people ship them. I love it. I love it so much. I love that people get into arguments like, oh, Lake, oh, Litz, all that stuff. I love it. [33:30] feel. I love all of that. You had two kids while you were doing your show. Yes. I also had children when I was doing a show.

It's very hard. Isn't it wild? I, by the way, never really, I don't think I really knew that. I mean, I never really sunk in that you, you were. Oh, cause my kids were being hidden behind boxes and Prada bags. So you had them both. So you were, you had, you were pregnant and gave birth on both with both during show. Yes. Dang. Yes. Yes. Yes. [33:56] That's hard. That's hard. I'm just going to, that's all. I have no question. [34:02] Because it's hard. It's a thing. It's a thing. But also I was so, so blessed because Shonda also had young kids and we built a playroom on the lot and Viola had a daughter and how to get away was on the same lot.

And so we would, we had this play, like I had my kids at work with me all the time. That's awesome. I figured out how to nurse during, you know, camera turnarounds. I [34:26] minutes. Get on. And I just, I loved it. I love my, my kids are set kids. They're set kids. They, they are comfortable on a set, which is important because I went with my mom to when she was teaching, I went to her office and I would sit in her lecture halls and I want them to know that what I do is work, that I'm working, you know?

Yeah. Okay. We talked to Tony. Yes. Okay. Oh yeah. How did I forget? Okay. What did he say? I mean, he's, he's your biggest fan. [34:56] He thinks about you that, like, you know, I mean, we talked about, like, the fact that you're the amazing person. [35:04] activist that you are, the way that you stay engaged with the world, the way that you make sure that [35:09] You use your currency for good and how important it is to you and how impressive it is to people. I mean, you have been working tirelessly for a long time and talking to people about what matters to you and what matters to this country and what matters to the world.

How do you stay engaged right now, Carrie? It's tough. It is really tough. And people are feeling super fatigued and really feeling numb and checked out and feeling disconnected and feeling discouraged. [35:38] connected and not opting out. Any advice? You know that toxic positivity thing that people talk about? Well aware of it. Yeah. Right. I'm I don't want to do that. I know. I mean, I, I, I don't want it, but this is not that. No, I don't think it is, but it is. You're right. It's always like, you don't want to be like, it's going to be great.

No, no, it's horrible. Y'all, y'all, [36:08] my head in the sand because I think it's really important to stay open-hearted and to ask myself, what am I willing to do? Because that's changed also. I think every day, each person and every day, there's a different level of what we can give. So I keep trying to ask myself, what am I able to do today? And some days it's like, march for six hours for no kings with my entire family [36:38] I want to donate $5 to a community organization, you know, like there's different, but to not do nothing to really like, [36:48] ask of myself to, to not do nothing.

Cause we can all be doing something whether, and you know, that it's time, treasure or talent. Like no matter who you are, you have something you can give and it can change over time. But I think we all have to be leaning into solution like in little ways. The other thing I just want to commend you on is, and it's, and definitely from a, um, social media perspective is you also make things seem fun. Oh, and I know that that's the, that [37:19] waited enough, but it, it isn't important because when you ask people for their time, their energy, it's really hard.

I mean, people have really complicated lives. Yeah. And when you ask them to join into something, if it looks like it's a drag, a drag, yeah. If it looks like it's a drag, they're like, I'm already pretty sad. Yes. You know, like so true. Like I'm going to take care of my family. And like, I hope those other sad people are also hanging on, but I'm [37:49] But there's something about the way I find in how you talk about things and like, and, and, and like thinking about Tony showing up for things is a good example of that instinct to want to make it.

[38:00] interesting for the, like, just this idea of like, how can I involve people is, it's not an easy thing to do. So I would say two things about that. One is that, [38:10] I learned from two extraordinary women, Eve Ensler, who wrote the Vagina Monologues, and Jane Fonda. And I used to be on a board, like the board, the V board, we called it for the Vagina Monologues, which went from being a play to being a global movement to end violence against women. And those two women really throughout my life have taught me that when you're feeling isolated, alone, and afraid, if you plug into community, and community activism [38:40] into like baking bread for somebody else or making cookies or driving somebody else's kid to school or just checking on a girlfriend who you haven't heard from in a long time.

Like plugging into community actually helps you feel better. Yeah. Like being a part of something bigger than you actually is like a balm for your soul. [39:01] This episode is brought to you by the Container Store. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. The Container Store? It's not really about the containers. It's the lifestyle. Less chaos, more calm. I just love how their experts design systems that actually work for you, whether that's your closet, your kitchen, or the drawer you've been avoiding. Yeah, you know the one. And trust me, when everything has a place, it's amazing how much calmer you feel.

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[41:20] Tony talked also again about like, [41:25] your incredible... [41:27] mothering. One of his questions was, oh, he had a question? Yes. I'm not taking questions. Okay, good. [41:34] Thank you. [41:36] So you've directed. No, no, no. Go ahead. [41:40] That is, by the way, you shouldn't take a question. Don't take a question. Just be like, I'd rather not answer. No. I remember doing one of our first. It was like our first all cast appearance on Good Morning America with a scandal cast. And none of them had done a lot of press before.

Right. And I had done all these movies. And so I was like, you guys, here's the number one thing to remember. [42:05] pit or something and they came in the green room and they were like do you mind if we ask you and I said we'd rather not talk about that and the whole cast was like oh you can say that no matter what anybody asks you just say what you want to say I always say that to people answer whatever question you want if someone says you had you know there's difficult things going on at home you can go I mean I think at the end of the day what's important about us as a community there you go that's it whatever you want that's right it's your interview [42:35] person forgets what they even ask if you're good enough you know why they don't know to come back they don't know they don't know they don't know how to get back in it and if they come back with like but what i asked about then you're like oh i think we're out of time you're like i can't it's weird i can't hear you speaking of therapy my therapist used to say something that was always like making me laugh is when someone asks a really inappropriate question like we're talking not like [43:05] something inappropriate and if you want to stall for time because you know like our instinct is to like react yes you can go what an interesting question i say it all the time i love i say it all the time it's like i'm so curious why you ask that all the time that's just like that's a great question what a good what a great question i wonder what made you ask that question yeah can you can you unpack that for me a little bit more where did that come from where did that question come from

[43:35] okay what was tony's question okay his question was yeah um your intense inner drive when it comes to you have this inner inner drive which he really respects okay when it comes to being a mom oh is it something you like want to instill in your children oh like and it's kind of what we talked about like [44:00] Like, how do you push or do you push? How do you figure out? Like, you have a very strong work ethic. I do. I'm like a longshoreman of acting. I mean, I promise we will cut this part and not keep it in.

But have you ever done the Enneagram test? You can keep it in. I've done it. I don't remember. I don't remember what it is. You're very Enneagram three to me. Really? Achiever, achiever, achiever. Oh, interesting. But anyway, I feel like Reese is, I feel like she told me she's a three. Oh, she's a big time, I would say. [44:30] told Rashida and Rashida was like, oh, I don't like those. And I was like, but we're friends. And then it like changed her mind. It's a very Enneagram 7 wing 6 thing for Rashida to say.

Oh, see. I love this about you. I didn't know that you had this. We're cutting all this out. Do you, now are you an astrology person also or just an Enneagram? No, that is nonsense. That's big story. [44:52] I believe in total bullshit. [44:57] Numerology. [45:00] He was wondering if your drive, how do you try to instill that... [45:06] And your kids, you want to lead by example. Like, how do you, because I think what's underneath that and what I think is interesting is what I, when I started with is that you can do many things well and you work really hard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [45:18] How do you instill that in your children? I do. Or do you? I think about this because I feel like they don't have that. [45:26] thing of being from the Bronx. They don't have that scrappy hustler. At least they weren't born in the neighborhood that I think produced it in me. And so I wonder where they'll find it. I see my kids are really resilient and I see it mostly in sports. That's like their opportunity, their place where that gets. So what kind of sports mom are you?

Do you go to the games? [45:56] the dismay of my children because I'm like a loud cheerer. Are you a after the game? Let's say they have a game and it doesn't go well. What do you say to them? [46:05] Thank you. [46:06] There's no wrong answer here. [46:08] Really? I mean, unless you like berate them, which I know you wouldn't, but how do you, how do you like to approach? I really try to be directed by them. Like I try to figure out how they're feeling about it and, um, and ask a lot of questions.

I don't try to like make it better immediately. I try to just like, yeah, if I, if there was a visual metaphor for it, I try to like sit on the bench with them. [46:38] Just like look where they're looking. Just give it some time. It's funny that you do that. I find that there's a lot of good conversations when people are looking forward in the car. Yes. With kids, especially. Yeah. Walks in the car. That like thing of like, I'm just going to be here. Like, let me know. Like.

[46:52] Was that hard? Do you feel good? Yeah. I heard a really cool thing one time again, probably just read it on Instagram. Definitely didn't read it in a book. Definitely didn't read it in a book. Heard it on a commercial on YouTube. I've been like, where did you get that? And she's like, well, not to sound like you, but I read it in an article. I'm like, what article? Like time [47:22] or again saw something one time that was like act like i loved this um metaphor act like a a small town reporter with your kids so um just repeat back to them what they just said as if you're writing it down in a small notebook it'll feel so hard works yes and and [47:45] It was like the less questions you can ask, the better.

So they're like, that was a bad game. That was a bad game. I sucked. I didn't play well. You didn't play well. Like you don't say why. The questions can sometimes kind of stop the. Because all you want them to do is talk. Yes. Oh, that's so good. And then if you want, you can kind of like. [48:08] Give them a headline back. Like, so it was a bad game and you didn't play well. Oh, wow. And they're just like, yeah. And then pause. Because the coach said whatever. Yes. Because the coach said whatever.

Because that's all. We just want to be witnessed. Yeah. As human beings, we just want to be witnessed and heard. And that's such good. Like, I hear you. I see you. I'm going to give it back to you. Yeah. That's good. Isn't that a good way to think about it? That's really good. As opposed to what my instinct sometimes to do is like, well, you know what I would do. Yeah. [48:38] I think you should say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I always ruin it at the end. Yeah.

You've directed a lot. You love directing. I love directing. What do you love about it? I haven't directed as much as I would like to, so I need to do more. I'm saying that here. And you walk in kind of, you've walked in other people's shows. Like you've walked in and you did Smilf, you did Insecure. Yeah. I love directing. What's it like to walk into a show that's already [49:08] the show and love the creatives. And I just, I think the thing I love about directing is that thing I was talking about with acting.

Like I love to help other, I love to help create an environment where other people can do their best work and to help push people toward excellence, to like unlock the things that are going to make other people better, whether it's set design or acting or a score, like just getting into a situation to help other people do what they do [49:38] Yes. I love it. Yeah. And do you think you want to, I mean, have you directed a feature? I haven't. So that should be next. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, I think so. It's a lot of, it's a lot of time away from your family. So I'm like, I did this movie with Ben Affleck, the senior, and he was like, you need to find a feature to direct. And I was like, I have to find a feature that I like enough to spend that much time away from my amazing husband and children. [50:08] A lot about me too. And when she did women talking, which I thought was amazing, she talks a lot about how, you know, there's this, you know, we talk, obviously we're always trying to like write the, um, [50:21] the imbalance of not enough female directors.

And there's not enough discussion about the fact that like women and with kids, it's very, you have to give up a lot of time and that she was like, [50:32] hoping and kind of working towards this idea that you could have these humane ways of working where more women could direct. And she talked about that movie. What that would look like. Yeah, that she had women on her crew be able to kind of like what Shonda did, like bring kids to work, try to keep hours shorter, try to keep prep more remote, whatever it was, so that more women were incentivized.

Because it is like it's like. [50:59] It's really, really hard to be away. It's a life choice. Yeah. So on this film with Ben, he likes to be home with his kids for dinner. And so we were done filming every single day by 637. It meant I was out before drop-off, but I was home for dinner and bedtime and homework to the point where my son was like, Mom, is your part not big? Like, why are you? Like, he was worried for my career. Like, why are you home every night for dinner?

[51:29] fired. Are you like pretending to act during the day? He's putting on an outfit and sitting in your car. He was like, mom, he's like, be honest. Be honest. I was like, no, I have a really big part. He was like, mom, it's okay. It's okay. There are no small parts, mom. But that's so humane. And so we, so on Imperfect Women, I'm like, I'm like, I'm