JRE MMA Show #182 - Protect Ya Neck

[00:01] Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! [00:12] Hey! Oh! Hey! What's up, brothers? So your boy Tommy was awesome. He was great. He was good. He was really cool. Yeah, I actually listened on the way out to that one. He's really fun. Tommy Lee's fun. He's like a big kid, man. He is. A big kid. Yeah, like a 15-year-old that just never, you know, had to grow up. [00:30] way up. Because he didn't have to. Well, he got famous when he was 18.

Exactly. So he really never had to grow up. He just stayed Tommy Lee. Yeah, I'm glad you finally got to have him on. It was very cool. So it was good. It's weird that he's really in a bonsai trees. Oh, big time. [00:43] Crazy. Trims them up. He's got like 100-year-old yardage. Where do you even find them at? You make them yourself, too. His yard, he sets up like a whole Zen garden type of thing. It's pretty wild. But he's been into those, and he likes to trim them up, and it's pretty wild.

He's a positive, energy, nice guy. He's never been in my room. [01:04] what do you want to say, interactions with him? He's never been a dick. Never. He was cool to work for. Well, I only worked, I met him rather when you were working with him. [01:14] when you were his bodyguard, and then this is the other time I met him. So he's super cool. Nice. Good. I remember him hocking the horn on his boat with his dick. [01:24] I don't know why. I don't want to remember that. His pecker's as tall as you are.

I remember him with his fucking huge dick with Pamela Anderson. He's got a lot of advantages in this life, doesn't he? Good Lord. Good Lord. God damn. Same person. And one of the greatest drummers of all time. That was like one of the first sex tapes. [01:44] Yeah, that was probably the first. Yeah, for sure. Her celebrities, actual celebrities. Did allow them to get famous afterwards. Yeah. [01:50] Well, they were already famous. That was why it was crazy. Both of them were super famous. But I mean, allow them to catapult them into a different stratosphere.

Right. Well, anytime one of them celebrities is dating another celebrity, it's like their fucking superpowers unite. Yeah. They get that old stone. He was with Heather Locklear, too, right? Right. Yeah. [02:11] Yeah, I mean, he was a fun dude. [02:13] The trees thing is wild, though. I didn't know that these people, they have like 100-year-old trees, 200-year-old tree, 300-year-old bonsai trees, and they pass them down through generations. They have like paperwork so you know like who's the guy who first started the tree, and they've got these trees that are like several hundred years old, and they're like this big.

[02:32] And they're in like a pot. What are you supposed to do with that? It's all like an artistic thing. They're trimming them in certain patterns. And every time they try to grow, you trim them down. And they just like tighten up. And it makes a weird form. Yeah, it comes out. They're pretty cool looking, actually. I wonder if the tree likes it, though. She's like, hey, motherfucker. I'm trying to grow. I'm 300 years old. I'm 16 inches tall. This is retarded. [03:02] life that [03:03] Oh, yeah. To the yang, you know what I mean?

That's how he relaxes. I loved hearing it. It sounded perfect. I was like, oh, you found a great thing. And you see he's a gearhead, too, like you. So you guys had a little bonding on the cars. The first cars he bought. He bought an old Corvette. He got a fucking supercharger put on it. Yeah, yeah. He's a maniac. He's definitely a maniac. But he's a very nice, I mean, very great dude. Rock and roll, man. Oh, yeah. The guy was the drummer for Motley Crue. I can't even, at 18, I can't even imagine what that was.

[03:33] been like. [03:34] Must have been insane. [03:36] Guys, they don't want to stop touring, all these rock and roll stars. Why would they want to? I mean, if she's not adrenaline. But some of them maybe should, though. Some of them. Some of them. I saw some clips. Who the fuck was he? David Lee Roth. [03:48] No, I think it was the guy from ACDC. [03:51] Brian Johnson. I don't know if it went that great. Yeah. It's bad. It's pretty bad. Dude, ACDC is one of my favorite all-time bands, and Brian Johnson's struggling.

I mean, with that screaming style he has, it's hard to keep that going. How do you keep that going? Like, no acting or vocal coach would ever tell you you could sing like that. I don't think so. You just can't sing like that. You can't fucking scream like that. I wonder if they get, like, 60-year-old. [04:16] Groupies. 100%. Really? 100%. They're shitty. Feeding tattoos. Oh, my God. They've been keeping that flame lit since the 80s. Of course. But do they have, like, new groupies, though? Of course. Of course. [04:29] Of course.

[04:30] You know, there's no way they know. Like, Dustin – what's his – what is his name? Jesus Christ. [04:40] Thank you. [04:41] Thank you. [04:41] Rolling Stones? [04:43] I forget what I'm talking about. Mick Jagger? Well, I know Mick Jagger has a kid that's really young. Mick Jagger just had a kid really recently. Really? Yeah. [04:52] He's like, in his 80s. I was thinking of someone else, though. Someone else is another. Oh, there's a bunch of guys like that. Like Al Pacino just said. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah. But a lot of older guys like that, they wind up having kids.

[05:04] They're still obviously getting young chicks to fuck them. It's kind of irresponsible. It's crazy. Having a kid at 80 is crazy. You hope he's going to take care of the kid, but maybe it's the young chick that wants the kids. Of course, but if you did it on purpose, if you're the guy and you did it on purpose, that's wild. You don't even want to be around. You're just going to have this kid at 80. [05:23] It's more important that my genes pass on that I'd be there for my child.

Think about that. By the time you're 85, you're probably gone. Yeah. Yeah. [05:31] Yeah, by the time you're 85. Yeah, you won't even see your kid go to school. He'll be five years old, and the kid will be five years old, and the dad dies. Maybe the... [05:40] Maybe the wife wanted it. Well, sure. You leave something behind type of thing. Maybe it's better than not doing it. [05:47] Maybe. But also, if you're a fucking rational 80-year-old, like, bro, you barely have time to take care of yourself. You can't even keep your own shit in your pants.

You're going to raise the kids. Both of them wear diapers. You're going to take the kids to the park and run around. Changing the kids' diapers and yours. Bro, you're going to break a hip, and your toddler is going to be screaming, and no one will hear it. Right. And you're going to be alone with them at the park. And you're going to be lying there bleeding internally from a broken hip. [06:17] Walk off. [06:19] Five years old. Three-year-old wander off when you're 80. That's nuts. Oh, yeah. By the way, Longo, you got him upset.

[06:28] Because he's like, man, I've been feeling good. He's like, you know, I'm at the gym every day. [06:33] And I go, fucking, I turn on Rogan and he's... [06:37] bitching about being 58. I'm like, what the fuck? He's 68. Oh. So he's basically like, what the fuck? He's complaining about being 58. Ray's really 68. He looks great. He fucking looks real good. He's got dark ass hair. I know, right? He don't have a Reagan hair. He's looking good. That's great. And then he asked me about a, what the fuck did he ask me?

Because Ronald Reagan had dark hair like deep into his 70s. [07:07] If I had hair and I grew it out, it would be all gray. Really? Yeah, mostly. Mostly. [07:11] It's like my face, like my stubble. It's like at least... [07:15] 60% gray. Yeah, mine is all gray now. Yeah. It's weird. There's something about a gray beard that's like, you're just saying, fuck it. Yeah, that's why. That's why I just started trimming it down. I was like, yo, this is ridiculous. I don't like the way it looks. When I see myself in the mirror with a gray beard, I'm like, who the fuck are you?

Yeah. You're supposed to have a dark beard. For sure. I had a dark beard most of my life. I'm looking at pictures from a couple years ago, and it's dark. Now it's all gray. What the fuck happened? They had a thing on A&E with me and George, [07:45] of me and you talking... [07:47] We both had hair. [07:50] Crazy, isn't it? It looked crazy. It's weird. You're just slowly slipping into the grave. [07:59] We're looking good, though. We're holding it down as long as we can. Yes, compared to people that don't take care of themselves and also compared to people from the past.

Oh, that's what I'm saying. They didn't have TRT. They didn't have FFs. They didn't even understand, really. Don't rush. Like therapy. Think about in the 80s, what 40-year-olds look like in the 80s. Right. [08:17] I think martial arts also helps. [08:22] an event [08:24] Henzo's 30th anniversary for his academy in the S. That was great. And they invited all the OGs. So, you know, we were – I've seen guys I hadn't seen in decades. Got a fifth degree. But, yeah, I got my fifth. Congratulations. Look at that. That's amazing. And – [08:38] I mean, we were talking like almost...

[08:41] Everybody looked good. Everybody. That's awesome. And there was 50 guys, 60 guys there. The thing is, you've got to maintain, and if you don't maintain, you're never getting it back. Yeah. You can't, like, at 50, you can't take three years off. Right, right, right. It's just too hard to get back. And if you never worked out before, and you're, like, 46, and you're starting now, like... [09:02] It's tough. That's a hard road, man. It definitely is. You never worked out before. Like, first of all, go slow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You got to break everything. Well, that's the problem. People want to jump right in, and then you get hurt or get busted up a little bit, and then you just... [09:16] defeats, you know what I mean? You're like, fuck this. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the home of my website, com. If you want to level up your business, you got to improve your website. Squarespace gives you everything you need to get a fully custom website, offer services, sell products, and get paid all in one place. [09:46] Rogan for a free trial.

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[10:25] The big reality about age is how long it takes to heal something. My kids get hurt, they just fucking heal up like Wolverine. It's nuts. Like within a few days, oh, my shoulder's fine again. Like you just fucking did a back flip and landed on your shoulder. You're all right? I would be fucked up for a year. They just heal quicker. They're alive. I mean, it's the fucking truth. That's the truth, man. That's the number one thing that happens as you get older. If you're lifers like us, you just got to be smart about your training.

100%. [10:55] I got young savages. I don't want to fucking... I choose who I want to roll with. Like, you know what I mean? Sure, sure. You don't got to be that guy to fucking just slay everybody on the mat there. Because you're the sense of... You're going to break. You'll break. You know, it's like you have a Corvette, you take it around the track. You can only do so many laps. Every car, even Formula One cars that cost $100 million, whatever they got, they break. You can only go so far, so fast, so long before you blow a rod.

You got... Some shit goes sideways. Everybody I know has had surgery. [11:25] Like for me, like when I'm in Philly with the crew, Brady and Piper and them, like it's hard being in a room with these guys because they want to grab you and do moves on you. And I'm like, oh, chill out, man. Let's grab one of the younger guys. Bro, the last guy you want grabbing you is Brady. Yeah. Jesus Christ. He gets on top of you and just starts squeezing you. Yeah. That fucking fight with Joaquin Buckley, I was like, holy shit, man.

Yeah, he ragged out. [11:55] shocking. I was like, okay, so this is his best form. Like, this is him at his best. At his best. Yeah. He's fucking terrible. He's a little inconsistent. Like, the Morales fight was tough. [12:07] And he said his head wasn't in it, but when his fucking head is in it and he's dialed in. For sure, man. When he grabs you, he'll squeeze you and you just start making a little noise. When he did a Leon and what he did to Joaquin, you're like, holy shit, man.

What is that like? That was beautiful. Beautiful. As explosive an athlete as Joaquin is. The flow. Everywhere they went, he was just following them one step ahead. It was like, no escape. Yeah, yeah. He don't want you out, man. [12:38] Just smush. His back is so big, he just gets so much coverage over you when he's on top of you. [12:43] And the balance, it's just like so many steps ahead of them on the ground. The one time, it really looked like a cardio drill. Like he was on top. It looked like he was just getting a drill.

Like placid face, super calm. I believe where they were, he wasn't allowed to do the 12 to 6 elbows. Oh, that's so crazy. That's right or wrong? Something like that. I think Jersey's still like that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of places that are like that, man. It's so dumb. They're still using the old unified rules. [13:13] THEIR HOME. [13:13] Like, that rule doesn't make any sense. It would be nice if they would just... I get it if it's, you know, soccer kicks. Okay, you want to have a debate?

But if you can elbow this way and this way and this way, but you can't go this way, that's just retarded. And everybody else is doing it. So why would you not do it? It doesn't make sense. And you have to remember what state you're in. That's the problem. So, like, when you're in the fight and you're on instinct and the guy's like this, but it's wide open for a 12-6 elbow, you're supposed to throw it. That's what it's for. [13:43] And the referee's ability to make a decision have consistency in the rule set.

It's just another elbow. It doesn't make any sense. Like, this one elbow that's outlawed, that's crazy. [13:54] I don't know why I have no idea. But you can knee the hell out of somebody in their face. You can run and jump and knee them in the face. Oh, God. And some of the craziest knockouts we've ever seen come from that. Like we were just talking about Masvidal versus Asuka in the other hand. Oh, man. Four. Eight. [14:11] He's supposed to be wrestling again. Oh, but how? Is that real? Is that a good idea?

No. I saw him talking the other day. Yeah, that freaked me out when I heard that. When he was talking, he was coughing a lot. I'm like, listen, people who are athletes, they're afraid of wrestling because it's exhausting. They don't want to feel that burn in their lungs. You really want to push yourself like that? I worry about it. I just don't want him to get fucked up. Totally with you. I mean, he had double lung cancer. [14:40] transplant surgery like how long ago? That was like a year ago. Maybe two years ago.

I'd be worried about infection. I'd be worried about everything. And I would also be worried if you're doing that [14:53] I think you have to take immunosuppressant drugs in order to keep someone else's organs inside of you. So you're going to go out to a giant crowd of people. My friend T. Fletcher, you know T. Fletcher? T. had a heart transplant. [15:07] and he has to take medication to keep this heart in his body, keep his body from rejecting it. And he has a bunch of complications from the medication, like makes him swell, and he post...

[15:19] videos and pictures about like it's a serious thing and he had to be real careful during covid like you have a heart transplant and then you're on immunosuppressant drugs and all of a sudden or a bad flu yeah like anything bad will fucking kill you because your immune system is working in a weird way because it's trying to keep someone else's heart inside of you yeah your body's like who's this fucking heart right not our heart get it out your body's like this is a disease fight it [15:44] Which is wild that your body knows.

Yeah. Like it recognizes that it's from another entity. This ain't yours. Yeah. [15:51] And we're just like, no, we can hack nature, shove it in there, give you some drugs that make your body stay alive. I think it was Bilal Muhammad. Yeah, it's Bilal Muhammad. It is Bilal Muhammad. Maybe he has like an agreement. Hey, listen, man. Didn't they used to train together, right? They did use to train together. So they're friends. Maybe that's the deal. Dude, we were just reading about this last night. Two people have had pig hearts transplanted in their bodies.

No way. Yeah, one guy stayed alive, I think, for 60 days, and one guy stayed alive for 40 days. Did they gain a lot of weight? [16:21] Do they become fatties? They start fucking shoveling their face in the trash. [16:32] So wait, you're telling me they have pig hearts? Whose idea was it to put a pig heart in another human being? There's a bunch of doctors, because apparently pig's hearts, for some reason, are similar in function to a human heart. Say that about a sheep's vagina. Don't they? [16:51] They do.

I'm a farmer, but that's what I heard. That's what I heard, too. So, a pig's heart. Yeah. [16:59] And that's fucking that's fucking crazy. It's crazy. And so they did it on two people. [17:04] But either way, the whole thing of transplanting organs from other people is super risky and dangerous. And once it's working, the number of – we looked at heart transplants. I don't know what it is for lung, double lung transplants. But you look at mortality over a period of years. And so it's like 91% of the people survived the first year.

[17:25] And then it starts going down. So 9% of the people die after the heart transplant. But then it starts to go down. That's for the first year. When it gets to five years, then you're in the 80s. [17:36] Or the 90s and then the 80s. And it keeps dipping. It keeps dipping until, like, at 10 years, it's like half of them are dead. Jesus. Yeah. So you're buying some time. Right. That's the heart, though. What about other organs? It's a good question. So what is it like for a double lung transplant?

I don't know. But I would imagine it's fragile. You want to put that in the fucking red? You want to push that? Will you breathe in heavy? It felt like yesterday he was making laps around the hospital floor. Right. Yeah. And that's a dude. Well, he's a winner, right? And that's the problem. [18:06] Yeah. [18:06] Like sometimes when you're a winner, your will is so strong that you think you could force your body into unrealistic expectations. There's got to be some agreement or something. Yeah. Like I just, in my mind too.

I would hope so. [18:20] But Lyle's a good dude. I mean, basically, you cheated death. Yes. Your family now, you have your family back, you understand you have a second chance, but [18:28] Like why would you put that at risk to do something maybe him and blow nothing to prove to have like a friendly? What's kind of what our wrestling role? Friendly wrestling. I don't think I mean it was an animal. Yeah, and ask for fuck. I don't think that they have an agreement with each other I think did somebody told but now hey listen man don't push this dude Well, he said I'd like a song an interview where he said bro like his first question was I [18:54] What are you talking about?

Can he wrestle? You know what I mean? Has he even been cleared? I would not accept that if I was Bilal. That's where I'm at. The pros don't go. And this is no disrespect to Askren. It's like I think that guy's an animal. Like I was one of the biggest promoters of trying to get Askren into the UFC when he was the champion of Bellator. And then when he went over to one. And the argument was like he was boring. And I was like, no, he's not boring. It's crazy that he could do this to these guys.

Yeah. [19:24] Lima and just rag doll him to the ground and they can't do shit to him. Koroskov, remember he did it to him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wasn't boring at all. He was destroying guys. Rag dolling these guys. They had zero chance in him not taking them down. It was zero chance and it was beautiful. Right. It wasn't like Alex Pereira flying me and somebody in the face, but it's still another way to win. But it was like a man and a child. Yes. Yeah. It was crazy good. He was crazy good.

[19:50] And then we got him like a little late, right? We got him when he already had hip problems and he eventually had to get a hip replacement after he got out of the UFC. You know, he had already been 15 years in combat sports and then all the years of wrestling. But those days when he was running shit at Bellator, he was a motherfucker, dude. He was a motherfucker. [20:10] Fight Night is here. Title shots, debut killers, and the rising contender nobody's talking about yet, and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way.

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Predictions offer void in New York. Ends July 19th. Terms at co slash audio. [21:25] His fight with Damian Maia was fucking awesome. Amazing fight. That's a great... The beautiful thing about that fight is... [21:32] They're both – it's almost like the closest thing to style versus style that we could have nowadays. Yeah. You know, they're both so – [21:39] Um... [21:40] brilliant at the way they use their art with him with his wrestling and him with the jiu-jitsu and in that fight you got you got to see some of that with ben you got to see the date downs you got to see an umapalata reversal uh and a leg lock ashi reversal i mean beautiful jiu-jitsu yeah it was just such a it was such a great fight dude damien maya got fucked harder than anybody ever got fucked by a referee's decision kamaru's yep ever right nobody got fucked harder than [22:10] We shouldn't even pull her name up.

[22:14] I can't do my boys like that, man. I got to see them in a week. I want to think. I don't remember who it was. But I think it was a guy who doesn't do it in the UFC anymore. But he had him on his back, one hook in, over, under. He had gotten to a position where, like, you are fucked. You're dry. And you got the best back specialist in the UFC. Damian Meyer, the way he ran through Neil Magny, you're like, holy shit. [22:40] Man, his jujitsu is so high level.

And for you to get off, get him off, and Kamaru's one loss? [22:49] Right, was to... Real naked choke. Yeah. Alex Cicero's his brother. So it's like, how many years ago was that? And now you're fighting Damian Maia and he's got your back. You're in danger. Yeah. You're in danger. And the referee separated him. So crazy. Never got to that spot again. Kamaru played it nice. [23:03] He fought a great fight, won the fight, and you're like, damn, Damian had him. [23:07] He had him in a, like, not 9 out of 10, but he had him in like a 6 out of 10 spot for him.

Yeah. Like, half the time, he gets your back and you're dry, and you're not at his level of jiu-jitsu. You're in fucking trouble. You should never separate anybody from that position. I know you're a big proponent of not standing people up, but especially positions that it requires time to get to. 100%. [23:30] 100% the idea that a guy can defend it for a few seconds in the crowd booze and that's enough for you to make them neutral again fuck you I know it's so hard to get to Kamaru yeah I know I know his back like that and the tightness is what keeps that position you know any space he makes and Kamaru's gone name the amount of times in the history of Kamaru's entire all the years of competition where people got him in disadvantageous grappling positions right [23:58] I can't think of many.

Just very few. Very few. Leon took them down. Leon mounted them for a moment. Yeah. Yeah. [24:06] Chemaev. But even Chemaev, he was winning the third round. Oh, well, he... I thought he almost won that fight. That was a fight where I bet he was... He won the last half. But here he is. Here he is. This is crazy. [24:20] Oh, shit. [24:20] Do I need headshots? Who is that? Does it matter? I don't sell them. All right. [24:25] That sucks. So back it up again so you can see how good the position was a little further.

Yeah, look at that hook. [24:30] Can you get it a little further back? [24:33] Yeah, so I want to see it like when he starts entangling. This is so bad for Kamaru. You have to understand how bad this is. Yeah, this is bad. This is not just simply he's like behind you. And Maya had the progression. Yeah. He was just about to beat that wizard. Bro, look how good this looks, too. [24:51] Maya is just a gorilla. His wrestling was underestimated, too. He was a very good wrestler. He was technically a very good wrestler.

[24:58] And his use of leverage and his positioning was always perfect. It just was so beautiful to watch. When you see a guy just super high-level jiu-jitsu in the UFC, you're just like, oh, my God, this is beautiful to watch. [25:12] Thank you. [25:14] Yeah, I love how methodical he's working his way into this. This is dangerous, man. Look at that. Oh, my gosh. He was going to step in there. Look at this. That arm is the only thing. And he's just about to beat that arm. And not only that, from here he could just start beating him up with the right hand, which he'll probably start doing.

So if the referee really stands him up from this position. [25:35] Like, this is a crazy way to separate people. [25:39] This is bad, man. This is like, for Kamaru, this is super dangerous. He's still got half the round left. Hanging on to that whizzer for dear life is the only thing to keep him from getting this guy on your neck. He's not trying to trip. And that whizzer is like at 40% power now because look how far back it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not much into that. Yeah, there's not much.

[25:58] It's hard. It's hard to generate power like that. I mean, he's got full double underhooks. [26:04] How do they break this up? How do you break this up? This is crazy to break up. Like, this is such a dangerous position. [26:12] Oh. [26:13] This is bad. I don't recognize the ref. [26:16] Yeah. I can't remember. I don't even know. I recognize. I'm not going to say his name. There's no need to. But this is a giant mistake. You're clear, Herb. Sometimes, in fights, man, these guys listen to the crowd.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's kind of hard not to, right? And they feel responsible. Yeah, they do. And in the organization, I'm sure they feel pressure because the organization wants, like, fast action fights. Oh, man. [26:42] But there's certain situations where you've got to just accept the fact that sometimes this sport is not the most exciting for moments. Because it's so exciting in other spots. Punching his ass. Oh, that's crazy right there. Right after he punched him in the ass. That's fucking crazy. That's crazy. Oh, man. That's the worst fuck over that anybody's ever gotten in the UFC.

Yeah. [27:01] I mean... [27:02] I think that's the worst. Yeah, that was bad. There is the time that fucking Bustamante had to get two. Lintland's funny. Twice. That's right. That's a pretty big fuck. That's who Meyer reminds me of. His striking wasn't as good as Murillo's, but the combination of wrestling and his jiu-jitsu, like once he got a hold of you, he was probably going to put you out. Yeah, Murillo was so good. He's still coming around. He's got a fighter in the UFC now. Nice. Does he? That's awesome. Yeah.

I saw him when I first started jiu-jitsu at Carlson Gracie's place. Did you? [27:32] jiu-jitsu, it was like him, Vitor was there, Sergio Cohen, [27:39] Mario Sperry. It was crazy. They had a ridiculous room back then. Locked out. [27:45] And wound up watching these guys train when like Vitor was about to make his UFC debut. I was just starting out. I was like, this is amazing. See all them guys in there? Dude, they were all in there, man. You could just come in off the street and see the best jujitsu guys in the world training.

That's crazy. It was crazy. And it was all, they were all fighting in, um, there was the other guy, what's his name? [28:06] Carlos Pajeto. That's right. Carlos Pajeto. He was there too. There was a bunch of those Carlson Gracie team guys there. We just got lucky that this was the place that was... [28:16] Yeah, man. [28:19] Built like a He-Man figure. Carlson had some savages, man. He really had a great team. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty. Laborio back then. Oh, that's where I got my black belt from. Laborio. Hell yeah.

He's a nice guy. Another guy to be proud of. He is a good guy. Such a nice guy. [28:34] Yeah, it's like – [28:36] It's kind of amazing when you realize that before 1993, jujitsu had no schools. Right? And now they're everywhere. Every corner. Isn't that nuts? That is really insane. That's truly insane. The Gracie family, the world owes them. [28:55] Yeah, no. The world owes them. The world, the whole world. The world is impacted. Like, think of the world. The world. The whole world. Yeah, everybody. Because I think liking MMA has impacted culture, and then people training, much more people training in jiu-jitsu has impacted culture.

Hell yeah. Where the fuck would we be? Like, the UFC's here because of the Gracies as well. Yes. I mean, obviously, the fatigue is in Dana, but whose idea was it? Yeah, but Horian started the whole thing. He wanted to have a crocodile mode around. [29:25] Remember? It's amazing. I remember hearing about it in 1992 with Horian and Hoist, the seminar I went to, and they were talking about that. They were talking about the different ideas, what they were going to do. And even though I didn't think they were full of shit, I thought it was never going to happen.

I'm like, what is this, Bloodsport? I go, on TV, they're going to be fighting. It sounded ridiculous. But now everybody's so used to it, it sounds ridiculous that it sounds ridiculous. [29:55] When I first found out about it, I didn't watch it until it was UFC 2 because I only watched it on videotape. Like someone from the gym told me about it. And I went and watched it. I got the videotape, like Hollywood video, brought it home, and I was like, oh, my God, they did it. [30:09] They did. That's what I thought.

So you were like, oh, Dave, pull this off. No, they did the thing that we always wanted. Oh, yeah. Style versus style. Yeah, I first started taking karate, and I thought karate was good until I stumbled into this really good taekwondo school. And I was like, oh, taekwondo is a shit. And then I started boxing. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't box. And then I started kickboxing. I'm like, oh, my God, you kick my legs? I didn't know you can kick my legs. It was terrible. And then I started doing jujitsu.

I'm like, oh, my God, I'm helpless. So it's like all these steps along the way. [30:39] what style was real. And this is what Bruce Lee tried. Right. Bro, when I was starting out in like 88, doing Taekwondo, nobody knew nothing. Nobody knew what worked. Everybody just like, sorry, that guy beats people in that thing. And that guy beat, I wonder what would happen if they fought. No one knew. Right. And they thought wrestling was worthless. Grappling arts were worthless. But luckily, I learned it was not worthless in high school when I got my ass kicked.

[31:03] Me too, man. I sat on a fucking wooden dummy to change. Why don't you punch my ass? [31:09] Well, that's all I know. And every time I can do a real scrap, I'd go back to my season of eighth grade wrestling. That's the case. But I also think that Wing Chun would work. [31:20] if you knew all the other, like Anderson Silva can use Wing Chun. Right. You know what I'm saying? A lot of hand trapping. Yeah, there's hand trapping and elbows from him. There's stuff that does work. If you know all the other shit, it's an added element.

Right. It's like there's moves that you could do that your opponent's not going to, your opponent is used to this, right? They're used to punches, like regular punches. Every now and then, weird shit can work because they don't see it coming, and then it opens up other big shots. [31:50] really good ones, like whack at each other's arms and shit, you're like, okay, there's like a little value in this. Yeah. There's a little value in getting good at this. As long as you know how to actually punch. Yeah, I don't dismiss nothing, because anything can work in the right context.

It's just not going to work on Terrence Crawford. Sure, yeah. Not a boxing match against Terrence Crawford. It's not going to work. Nothing again. What is working against him anyway? Fucking not much. No one has figured that out. Not much. No one has figured that out. Not much. [32:20] as value [32:22] I'd say very little value. Very little. It's only valuable if you're already doing the other stuff. Yeah, if you're going to do that, you might as well be doing Muay Thai, Western boxing, or jiu-jitsu. No, no, for sure. By itself, useless.

But what I think is if you already are doing other stuff and you could train with a guy who can show you some of it, I think you would be like, oh, I see value in this. Do you remember when Dan Henderson was fighting Hector Lombard and he hit him with a back elbow standing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. [32:52] Back forearm. It was an elbow or a forearm? It was an elbow. Yeah, I think he like thought punching cane back. Just wild shit sometimes. You ever see people do standing back fists sometimes and they work?

There's some shit that we're missing. Yeah. And I think Wing Chun is a part of it. [33:06] Yeah, I agree with that. Especially when you're in close, in cleansing positions. Yeah, that's what I think. You're just trapping hands. Bam, bam. You know what I think is the number one thing that people should be doing? The number one thing that people should be doing is point fighting karate. [33:22] You want to add something? I mean, obviously not number one over wrestling and all that, but the number one thing to add? Don't add Wing Chun.

Add point fighting karate. But it's such a physical thing that a lot of people probably can't do. [33:36] wrestling background, where you're so used to being heavy and square, to be able to turn sideways and jump in and out like that. But if you can do it, that advantage is so huge. When you watch MVP when he's in his fucking prime. That's so funny. The Shara Bullet, the [33:53] Yeah, but the thing about – yeah, back elbow. Crazy. What a beautiful elbow. From a wrestling position. [34:01] Yeah. Let me see that again.

[34:03] How did he land it? So, yeah, he had his leg. Look at that. He's holding his leg. Look at this. [34:08] And he catches it. Look at the fucking elbow. Oh, son. Right behind it here, too. Fantastic. What a fucking elbow. That's one of the greatest elbows of all time. Underappreciated elbow right there. Yeah, that guy. To get a knockout elbow while you're hopping on one leg? Yeah, that's crazy. Fighting off the takedown? Yeah. [34:25] That was-- [34:26] Nasty. Nasty. It wasn't Wayne Chung. But what I was getting to is these guys, like MVP, that advantage is so huge.

[34:34] The advantage of being Wonderboy in his prime, bro, that advantage is so nuts. Well, so I watch videos of people doing it online. I'm like, if you could do that in an MMA fight, no one will catch you. Right. You'll be in and out before they catch you. You know who's the closest to it? [34:49] Cyril Gaon. It's true. Cyril Gaon is not a point-fighting karate guy. He's a Muay Thai. But he's a basketball player. We were talking about this the other day. What better sport to develop plyometrics and the ability to change direction than basketball?

You're constantly changing direction. And they're big men. Then why can't basketball players fight? They're the worst fighters on the planet. Because they don't train. That's true. Just because they don't train. But Cyril Gaon, you look at the way he moves. He moves like a basketball player can move. But he's 250 pounds and he's a heavyweight. [35:19] strike. Yeah, I remember I used to train Walt Harris, who was a pretty good basketball player, and I used to always try to tell him, man, it's the same thing. Your pivots are the same.

You got to be able to move, change directions. It's the same thing. But as a heavyweight, it also comes with being lazy. Those guys are just lazy. Well, it's harder to do. Hey, fuck you, Dean. [35:40] It's harder to move all that weight, right? A message from the beer store. Alcohol containers purchased in Ontario subject to deposit can be returned to the beer store [35:49] Authorized empties return locations for a full deposit refund. Well, the legal was the ad, so now I've got to make this quick. Return your empties, reclaim your deposit.

Learn more at ca. [35:58] My name is Peter Parker, but I'm also Spider-Man. This July, we're faced with a threat. That can be anyone. The world may have forgotten Peter Parker. I'm just a neighbor, friendly neighbor. But he hasn't forgotten them. Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing. That's my responsibility. Dr. Banner? I didn't know you could get that big. Spider-Man, brand new day in theaters July 31st. [36:26] Thank you. [36:28] It's hard to get a 248-pound guy to move like Cyril Ghosn. There's not a whole lot of them.

We were just talking about it the other day. I think it's an underappreciated thing because we're used to lighter weight fighters moving like that. But I'm like, name one. Name one guy at heavyweight who moves like that. You know who used to? Who? You know who used to? It was the dark horse of the heavyweight division. Travis fucking Brown. When Travis Brown was in his prime, he was a bad motherfucker, dude. And he moved light. He was a big, tall dude, and he moved light. [36:58] He just had some wars and they'd take their toll on you.

But if you go back to Travis Brown in his heyday when he was knocking people out with those elbows from the clinch and the way he would move, he would move super light on his feet, bouncing around. And I think it was because he played basketball. [37:18] It's got to be it. 100% it makes sense. [37:21] Because I know Travis played basketball. Yeah. [37:23] When you get a big athlete that's light on their feet, that's a giant advantage. Yeah, it is. Because you only need one entrance that you didn't anticipate when you get popped and now you're compromised.

And getting that first step and being able to get a clean shot. [37:38] Dude, those karate point guys, I've only fought a couple of karate point fights when I was a kid, when I was doing Taekwondo tournaments, we'd enter into them, and I fought this one guy that was like, his name was Mafia Holloway, he was like a champion. [37:50] I couldn't even touch him. I couldn't even get close to him. His first name was Mafia? Mafia Holloway. He was a very famous, I don't know if it was his real name, but that's what his name was back in the day.

He was like a well-known black belt point fighting champion. I couldn't even touch him. I was like, Jesus, we're playing totally different games. I'm playing a continuous fighting game, which where you fight in Taekwondo for a certain amount of minutes, and he's playing this thing where you stop every time they hit you. [38:13] And so you can't hit him and he keeps hitting you. Yeah. And it's just stop, stop, stop, stop. It's like, whoa. It's so frustrating. But I remember leaving going, oh, I need to learn that. Like, that's crazy.

I didn't know you could move that quick and just jump out of there. [38:28] the way he's doing it. And I'm like, and you think about these guys that fight him, like Kevin Holland that fight MVP. After a while, they're like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, for real. He was in his corner saying that. Like, I can't hit him. He's quicker than I thought. What am I doing here? This is nuts. [38:43] You just can't do anything to him, and he's styling on you. Yeah, that's why when I trained Tyron to fight a...

[38:49] Steven Thompson Wonderboy we did so I was I knew the mistake that everybody was making they were using just regular tall kickboxers I went to karate schools and we got just karate kids did did that yeah and the spar with [39:05] Don't worry about takedowns. We don't even need to get there just be able to deal with this movement and his length and being able to deal with that because it's different and [39:14] What is this? Mafia Holloway. [39:16] Oh, shit. Yeah. He's got a crazy kick here. Dude was very good.

He was very good. [39:22] He didn't get me with that. [39:25] He got me with a couple of sidekicks to the body, though. I'll tell you that. I was very impressed. [39:29] I was impressed by the speed in which he was able to move forward and back. Because that darting in and just tagging each other's speed is a totally different speed than continuous fighting speed. Because continuous fighting speed, you would assume that if the guy's hitting you, that you're going to counter and you're going to exchange. And what these guys are used to is you never exchange.

They just pop you. They pop you and they get the fuck out of there. And that's an asset in MMA. Giant asset. Because you can just knock somebody out. That's it. Giant asset. [39:59] If you try to play their game, you should just try to play their game just to realize how hard it is. And you're like, oh, this is a different thing. This is all about the blitz. It's all about the entry. They switch stances at will, too. At will. Yeah. At will. But I think all the good guys do now.

I think that's going to be a prerequisite. There's too many calf kickers out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to be able to switch. [40:20] Do you guys watch one? You watch kickboxing in one? Did you see Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yosa? Uh, [40:28] It wasn't good for Haggerty, was it? No, he won. He figured him out. Haggerty was... Oh, he's the guy that beat that dude that was wrecking everybody. He's an elbow guy. That's right. Well, he's just a full-on Muay Thai guy, but he beat him by continuous movement and switching stances.

Oh, right. Yeah. I think I checked the video on our group. I did see that. [40:49] It was a really technical fight. For sure. Like, if you really like striking, it's a really technical fight. [40:58] switching stances and moving and then catching them in exchanges. And, dude, it was fucking beautiful because he was a – [41:05] crushes everybody's legs. It was really sweet. Yeah, he just kept switching stances. Just kept switching stances and [41:11] He did a lot of great boxing from the outside, too. Yeah, dude. It was just... But he never gave him the same look.

See that? Look at that. [41:19] And then knees to the body. A lot of knees to the body. It was beautiful. Brilliant fight. [41:24] I was just... [41:25] chatting with him on Instagram. I'm going to try to get him on. Nice. Bring him to America. Like, this is what Zufa should be promoting. [41:32] You know, I mean, I know they love boxing. That's awesome. I'm glad they're doing that. But, you know... [41:37] This is it. Yeah. If you want another thing that's really exciting, it's striking. Just have only Muay Thai.

I'm just surprised they haven't done that. It doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't. Because that's what everybody likes to watch anyway, really. Yeah, that's what everybody likes to do. Dana said to me, I don't know if he changed his opinion, but he said to me that people don't like kickboxing because they think of like PKA karate from ESPN from like the 1980s. I'm like... [42:00] That's old people. I don't even know what that is. That's old people. Young people love martial arts. Like, young people love knockouts. Young people boo when fights go to the ground.

They do. MMA is the best. No doubt about it. It's the greatest sport of all time. It's the champion of sports. However, if you're going to have some value in another combat sport, it's Muay Thai. It's the most exciting shit. You can do the most options. You can knee. They can throw each other. [42:30] kicking. You think Rico Verhoeven's boxing success will bring some eyes to kickboxing? I hope so. I'm having him on, too. I hope so. That was incredible. He's really phenomenal. I mean, dude, for 10 rounds, he really...

He was into the point where if you're good judges, if the judges are real, he... Usyk needs a knockout twin. A thousand percent. Which is crazy. I thought he was up by 8-1 or 2 at the time. I thought the same. A lot of people thought the same. [43:00] bullying him around. Yeah, he used his weight well. He joked on himself, and it was phenomenal. Because he put my style against Usyk, and it was... [43:10] Jim Carrey and that fucking, what's the one where he comes boxing at the guys? It all would look like it, too.

It was fucking phenomenal. But, man, he really did amazing. I personally think if they rematch that now Usyk... [43:24] We'll kind of figure them out, so maybe it'll get them faster. Look, I hope not, because I was rooting for Rico. If they rematch, Rico was going to know that he can do that. Before that fight, he didn't know he could do that. [43:37] And Usyk didn't know he could do that. And the difference is Usyk is not a real heavyweight. [43:41] He's the greatest heavyweight of all time, which is crazy, but he's not a real heavyweight.

Right. You can't say the—Tyson, in my opinion, is always going to be my favorite in his prime. Yeah. He was just so insane. It was so insane to watch him just demolish the whole division. For real. But then you look at Cassius Clay, and then when he was Muhammad Ali, and Larry Holmes doesn't get his due, and Lennox Lewis was a fucking beast. Yeah. [44:02] so maybe you know who knows who would have fought but [44:05] That guy stylistically is like the greatest heavyweight ever. Like watching him move the way he – Yeah, like skill for skill when you look for skill.

You're watching an artist. Yeah. It's like the way he put it on Dubois. Yeah. Oh, my God. [44:19] He's incredible, but he's still really a 220-pound guy. Yeah. You know? Like, he puts on some extra weight. He was a little thicker for that fight. But... [44:28] you know, [44:30] Rico's huge. [44:32] Rico's a giant guy from the Netherlands. Is that where he's from? That's a real heavyweight man. Another Dutch kickboxer. They're all giants. They're all tough as shit, too. What is he, like 6'5", 270? He's huge. 260? [44:46] He's got crazy cardio, too, for a big, giant guy.

He was bouncing on. I mean, he was, for 10 rounds, he kept that pace. That's a heavyweight keeping that pace. And then once he slowed, you know, that's when Usyk was able to find him. Did you watch it, Matt? I can't watch. I have a hard time watching anything but fucking... [45:04] Mixed martial arts. I love Jiu-Jitsu. And Star Wars. I love Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah, well, you know, Star Wars. I saw the new He-Man movie, by the way. How was it? It was fucking good. Really? The Masters of the Universe was good.

I was worried. I was worried. [45:19] Because I'm thinking Ellen Neumann. [45:21] reboots and this and that, I go, is it going to be too woke? Is it going to be this? It was fucking fun. It had a Thor Ragnarok type feel where it's just... [45:31] kind of fun and a little goofy, but not [45:34] to the point where it just takes you out of it. You know what it is? I grew up with that He-Man. That was my kid around our age, right? Yeah, right. So, [45:44] It did justice to that.

It made it fun. I heard Skeletor was awesome. Yeah, Jared Leto. I heard there was some sort of crazy... He wasn't allowed to do interviews. He wasn't allowed to talk to the rest of the cast. Why? Because they were worried he was going to do nutty shit. In the Joker, he was sending people dead rats in the mail. Oh, really? Because he was in character. That's wild. So they were like, yeah, you're going to be an evil fucking Skeletor guy? No. [46:14] I can't let you be in character. I can't contact the rest of the crew.

I don't know if that's true. That's what I heard, but it was fun. [46:19] See if that's true. [46:20] No, I heard that too. I heard Will Smith said something about that. Yeah, I thought somebody said that. I know he definitely did that with the Joker. He said that like a rat or something. Yes. When he was the Joker, yeah. Yeah. He said, I know you're playing the Joker, but come on with the rat. Yeah, yeah. You would chill out. There's some dudes that play the Joker and you're like, all right, it's over.

Hey, I heard. When Heath Ledger played the Joker, everybody stop. Stop. [46:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't come back after that. Until Joaquin. [46:45] Joaquin Phoenix. Yeah, he's a great... I saw that, I was like, okay, now that's the Joker. Yeah, and then you saw the sequel and you said, fuck that, bring that. I didn't see the sequel. Tim Dillon told me it was the worst movie that's ever been made. Everybody said that. [47:00] I didn't see it neither. I didn't make it. I didn't watch it. If I was guessing...

[47:05] He probably didn't want to do it. I don't know what they were thinking. I bet it was like a dispute between the movie company and the dude... [47:14] I heard it was a musical. Who directed it. Why would you do that? It's so much. Unless you're trying to mock it or you're trying to diffuse it. Maybe the government was like, hey, after you released that movie, we had the BLM riots and everybody was lighting A. on fire. Hey, maybe don't have a movie where you're encouraging. [47:29] people to light cities on fire.

Maybe make a musical. [47:41] I mean, sequels aren't normally as good as the original, but holy fuck. I've never seen something so bad. I didn't make it through it. [47:49] I saw some of it. Then I'm like, once they started singing, I'm like, I'm out of this motherfucker. It's very rare where a sequel, you're like, damn, that's just as good. Well, Terminator 2, Empire Strikes Back. Those are a couple. Those are a couple. Rocky 2. [48:04] You didn't like Rocky, too? John Wick, too. I liked it. He's pretty fucking good.

He was, obviously. Why did he take it to the zoo in the beginning? Why? I never can get over that. I like the zoo. [48:15] Go go stare at the giraffe. The whole joke was that mean bodyguard saying, take it to the zoo. The retards like the zoo. And then he takes her to the fucking zoo to propose to her. Is that not crazy? Yeah, that is. But that's how people were in the 70s. They were animals. They were animals. [48:31] Thank you. [48:32] But he's basically just saying, all right, you're right.

People are animals before the internet. Man, are you still doing movie reviews on your... [48:39] channel. [48:40] Oh, you're trying to plug my channel? No, I'm taking that. Give me something. I love it. No, no, no. You want to talk about that? We'll be going to talk about that. No, because like when... Hey, you know what I'm watching on there? I do. I do series reactions or movies reactions. Are you watching the new House of Dragons? No. I haven't saw it yet. There's too many things to watch. Let me tell you something.

I'm fucked. I'm in the middle of From. I want to talk to you about that, too. My wife's made it From. You know what? Don't tell me why. It might be a spoiler. [49:10] Season four, episode five, I think. I think four or five. How many seasons is it? Five? There's only four. Four. And then the fifth one is the final season. It doesn't come out until 2027, so don't tell me. All right, all right. Hey, House of Dragon. Now, look, I love Game of Thrones. The Knight of the Seven Kingdoms was phenomenal.

And House of Dragon, out of all of them, is the one I like the least because it's a lot of just gloom and doom. All the characters are pricks. They're all a bunch of fucking wacky-duggy-wings. Yeah, there's no one to like. Exactly. No one's noble. [49:40] third season is fucking... I watch... Yeah, I do the reactions on my channel. Thanks, Dean. What is the channel? The Matt Sarah channel on YouTube? Oh, look at this. He's contemplating. Oh, that's me! [49:54] He's contemplating. You know what this is? House of the Dragons.

No, no. Do you ever see Mystery Science Theater? This is like my Mystery Science Theater. Yeah, well, they show the fact that you're the former UFC welterweight champion of the world, and you're sitting there with the headphones on. [50:10] This is what I think about House of Dragons. I thought you'd be selling. You didn't have to do that. That's 200 milligrams of edibles right there. It's 55 milligrams. You know what scene I really love? When they were trying to find Targaryens, because the Targaryens had a bunch of bastard children. They were trying to see who's a Targaryen, so they put people out with the dragons.

I was burning them up. The prior seasons had some good scenes like that. But this season, I just watched three of them so far. I'll get in on it. [50:40] one of them is, it's nothing but fighting now. [50:43] It's nothing about going at it. Let's go. And it's fucking good. Yeah, it's good. I mean, I watched the whole season, all the episodes of Game of Thrones recently. You went back and started again? Went back, yeah. We watched it for like four or five months. Watched every one of them. And when you watch it like every couple nights a week, like two, three nights a week when you're watching it, it's like you just like you follow.

You don't have to wait like years in between seasons. It's incredible. It's better that way. [51:13] world. I tell people that all the time. I'm like, you've got to watch it. So good, dude. For sure. I forgot how good it was. And even though it's 10 years old, special effects are perfect. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to say something I never said in my life. There's a new book I'm reading. What? [51:29] Hey, guys. Hold on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Is it audible? Is it a new book I'm reading?

Is it a graphic novel? Son of a bitch. No, it's not. It is. And all right. I've got to be honest. I'm listening to the audio book. [51:43] I hate when people say they're reading a book when they really listen to the audio book. Bro, Donald Rollins gave me so much shit about that. He's like, how are you reading when you just listen? Well, that's what I'm doing. I'm just trying to abbreviate it. Yes, I listened to an audio book. Sorry. I didn't sit down and read it. [51:59] Red Rising.

Have you ever heard of this? No. Well, you're going to document this episode because sooner or later someone's going to pick it up and it's going to become either an Amazon series or a movie. One of my black belts, Jedi Joey Beans, told me about this ages ago. What a great name. Jedi Joey Beans. Oh, Joey Beans is a savage. Jedi Joey Beans is a fucking great name. He's great. [52:23] But he likes all the shit I'm into, so he told me about this. I'm going to write it down. What is it called again?

Red Rising. All right. [52:30] That's it. And I'll tell you, I don't know how many books there are, but I'm listening to the first one. And I'm like more than halfway through. And it's what's it about? [52:39] uh... [52:41] Set and future on Mars. [52:43] Red Rising is a 2014 dystopian science fiction novel. You guys are a bunch of fucking boys. First of all. You guys are a bunch of fucking. This is why I got to come off. My short friend took the short bus. In the first book. Telling us he's reading and dystopian comes out.

Somebody else read it.